Which Esprit Turbo to buy ?

[Sparky]

Hehe, unfortunately not.  Checked back, and I havn't worked on it, so I guess it's one that arrived since I was last there a couple of months ago ('rona and all that).

[pete]

10 hours ago, Dan E said:

Pete his name is Sparkles 

Thought that was his party trick

 

[Bling]

 

16 hours ago, Dan E said:

The de-seam has probably made it nigh on worthless to people who give a shite about originality including me. I could be wrong though. 

So sad that they ruined it for no good reason, a bit like the 70.s and 80's when people stripped the period features from Victorian and Edwardian houses in order to make them look more modern 🙈

 

15 hours ago, MPx said:

Just on specs....mine is a December '85 build/Jan 86 reg, one of the last Gen3 before the HC came out....and I don't have a glass roof or air con. 

I'd advise if you do get a glass roof to also make sure you get aircon as the heat gain through the windscreen is bad enough, but through the roof as well would be roasting without aircon.

When I bought the car 31 years ago, my mate bought an '88 911 Carrera.  We shared the driving "to" many a golf match, but I'd nearly always drive home afterwards in whichever car we'd taken as Jim would have enjoyed his time at the 19th - so I did a lot of miles in his 911.  There's no doubt that the 911 (even non turbo) is a very decent car, but I was mighty pleased that I was wedded to the Esprit and not the 911 - just an entirely better driving experience IMO even without the more dramatic profile and rarity value.

...oh and the first to get a £35k boatload of cash to my door can take it away. 😁

Interesting comparison. I nearly bought am 80's 3.2 Carrera but ended up in the 996 Turbo. I often think if I should I should have gone for the Carrera like your friend. 

Now I am looking at moving into an Esprit, I am weighing if I should go for the S3 for its classic status or compromise and maybe go for a 1990's Stevens' GT3 which will be more modern inside and maybe more forgiving on the road !

 

6 hours ago, Sparky said:

Hehe, unfortunately not.  Checked back, and I havn't worked on it, so I guess it's one that arrived since I was last there a couple of months ago ('rona and all that).

Did you work for Mark as a mechanic ?

Interesting as Cazana shows this same car for sale at Stocks back in 2018

Edited February 13 by Bling

[pete]

Possibly sold it then and now got it back

[Bling]

14 minutes ago, pete said:

Possibly sold it then and now got it back

That's what I thought so mentioned it in case @Sparky remembered it from before he left

[Sparky]

28 minutes ago, Bling said:

Did you work for Mark as a mechanic ?

I contract to Mark on an ad hoc basis.  Slowed down at the mo due to COVID.

[Bling]

17 minutes ago, Sparky said:

I contract to Mark on an ad hoc basis.  Slowed down at the mo due to COVID.

Thanks for the reply Gary ( @Sparky ). I noticed you have a GT3 in your profile. Do you still own it ?

I am guessing you have seen and driven a lot of Esprit's in your time. I know they are 10 years apart but how would you compare and contrast a 1984-1987 S3 to a 1990's GT3 in terms of looks, presence, performance, handling and safety on A and B roads ?

Edited February 13 by Bling

[Sparky]

Yup, still have the GT3!  I've driven every Esprit variant except the Sport 300, and I bought the GT3 because it is hands down the best model I've driven.  Incredibly reliable, a modern-feeling joy around town, and a lot of fun on the open road.  However, that is of course subjective.  The 2.0l engine is pretty pedestrian from standing, but when the turbo spools up it's lovely.  GT3 Handling is the pinnacle of Esprit development.  The interior is not as lush as other variants, but I prefer that as it's pretty much creak-free.  This later facelift model GT3 has the much-improved Kelsey-Hayes ABS; I wouldn't entertain an Esprit with the old Delco Moraine system.  The GT3 is a world apart from the older G-cars in all respects, but arguably a closer cousin than some of the intermediate models (SE, S4 etc.) in that it has simple spoiler-free lines, which I prefer.

BUT:  sit the GT3 next to a classic wedge (especially a white one!), and I guarantee only 1 in 10 will give mine a second glance.

The G-cars are more of a turbulent love affair, as they're likely to demand a bit more maintenance, be somewhat less desirable to drive in crap weather, and generally rattle and creak a little more.  After all, they're pretty old.  But people will stop and stare.

Either way, you're going to notice a huge difference after the 911!

[Dan E]

I tried to keep up with Sparkles GT3 on the way the 70th at Hethel in a 1981 dry sump and I promise you he was gone. That said my car does not attract flies like his. I think he needs to drive flat out to escape them 

[rudolphwolven]

9 hours ago, Bling said:

Now I am looking at moving into an Esprit, I am weighing if I should go for the S3 for its classic status or compromise and maybe go for a 1990's Stevens' GT3 which will be more modern inside and maybe more forgiving on the road !

*****

Don't neglect the 1990+ Turbo SE series with their 264/280 (30 sec) bhp and 0-60 mph in 4,7 sec's performance....

It rides very comfortable........ after a 500 mls journey you still get out fairly fresh.....

 

 

Edited February 14 by rudolphwolven

[andydclements]

To add to what @Sparky said for the later cars. There's a lot to be said for just sitting in the car and turning the key on the later injection cars, as compared to the reliable but sometimes annoying processes for cars with carbs (hot starts are worse than cold starts).

[Bling]

Thanks for all the comments, especially your experience @Sparky
 

Interesting. When I was looking at buying a Porsche about 10 years ago I was looking for a either a 3.2 Carrera Supersport or a 993C2S.

In the end, I was persuaded to go for the 996 Turbo for similar reasons to the ones you outline for the GT3 @Sparky i.e. better performance, reliability and safety features (eg ABS, power steering, 4WD etc).

In the last 10 years the Turbo has served me well and I have enjoyed some epic road trips and memories in it. I am not sure what the experience would have been like in one of the older Porsches, maybe not as good (?) but I do know that the Turbo has way more power than I have ever been able to use and definitely does not get the admiring looks the older cars get. In that time I have always questioned if I made the right decision even though the Turbo has been a phenomenal machine performance wise.

At any meet involving Porsches, everyone admires the old 1970's and 1980's cars, maybe a little at the 1990's (993) but definitely not mine. I don't necessarily want to buy a car for everyone else's enjoyment but I also do the same, stare and derive pleasure by looking at these older cars, particularly when they are in time warp condition.

In addition, having lived with the Porsche I now have a better idea of how the car will be used, which I wasn't sure about 10 years ago. I now know it will be a special occasion car, garaged and brought out at weekend for a long drive or in the better seasons, trips to Le Mans, the Alps, Wales or Scotland. It does not need to have top performance as demonstrated by friends in 1980's Porsches who have often accompanied me on some of these trips in the past.

All this leans me towards the Giugiaro S3 Turbo Esprit but a part of me still wonders if the GT3 is the wiser choice due to it being slightly more modern and bringing with it better safety. Will the Giugiaro car be more likely to reveal my lack of driving skill than the GT3 ? Am I worrying too much about factors that are not an issue ?

Not sure but I also don't want to make the same mistake I made 10 years ago.

I have added some photos of the Porsche in case anyone is interested.

 

 

 

Edited February 15 by Bling
Added Photos

[MPx]

There's absolutely no doubt that all cars have become much more refined and accomplished over the last few decades.  If you go for a G car you are stepping into a 1970's design even if its an '80s car.  Its going to feel crude, but no more crude than an '80s Carrera and I guess you know them well.  The Esprit (and every Lotus I've driven) are "easy" to drive.  The M100 Elan probably the easiest, but the Esprit is fine.  In monsoon/ice conditions, its possible to loose the tail if you're not paying attention, but its the 911 with the reputation in that department not the Esprit.  It is awkward to see rear three quarters if pulling out at an oblique junction and reversing throws up a number of blind spots - but it really isn't an issue.  Best advice is to get in and drive some - there's a few for sale, try them out - even the private ones if you sort your insurance.  Nice looking 996...but you know that too!

[drdoom]

Lotus apprehended the pertinent laws of physics long before anyone else applied them to road cars, as all who've truly driven any good Lotus will attest. Those laws have not and never will change, thus the Esprit has been a car of sublime roadholding from the get-go. All the deficiencies in minor design and production have been well explored over the decades and most can be effectively remedied. 

As to sheer performance, well what modern auto does not perform remarkably? My wife's bone-stock Accord with base 4 cylinder and CVT box is up to 130 kph in a flash, if given the boot. Why older sportscars have enduring popularity and relevance is in how they provide joy in numerous ways, including covering road at speed. Most of the performance envelope of modern sportscars is irrelevant, beyond exploring other than by the insane and what's the joy in it anyway? Ooh look, I went 260 kph on the motorway and here I am, still alive !? There's wisdom in knowing why we separate the wheat from the chaff.

Cheers

[Bling]

Thanks for the comments @MPx and @drdoom.

I appreciate the less refined nature of 1980s cars. Back then I was just a teenager but I did own cars with no power steering, no ABS and no traction control but this a distant memory having been cosseted and protected by these inventions for many years now.

When I bought the Turbo I thought I needed these safety features because I would be wringing the available performance out of the Turbo. I was wrong and not wanting to make the same mistake again I am trying to stick to a G series 3 Turbo and not be tempted by the newer Esprits that may be more reliable, comfortable, roomier and safer.

I have read a lot about the Esprit's road holding and although not better than my Turbo, sounds miles better than the 1980's Carreras !
A friend has one and he has spun it a couple of times on greasy roads and he has owned it 20 years !

I guess I just need to drive a couple to be sure and decide how to sell the Turbo

Edited February 16 by Bling

[MPx]

Where abouts in the country are you, we may know a friendly owner nearby?

[stephenwhyte]

3 hours ago, Bling said:

Thanks for the comments @MPx and @drdoom.

I appreciate the less refined nature of 1980s cars. Back then I was just a teenager but I did own cars with no power steering, no ABS and no traction control but this a distant memory having been cosseted and protected by these inventions for many years now.

When I bought the Turbo I thought I needed these safety features because I would be wringing the available performance out of the Turbo. I was wrong and not wanting to make the same mistake again I am trying to stick to a G series 3 Turbo and not be tempted by the newer Esprits that may be more reliable, comfortable, roomier and safer.

I have read a lot about the Esprit's road holding and although not better than my Turbo, sounds miles better than the 1980's Carreras !
A friend has one and he has spun it a couple of times on greasy roads and he has owned it 20 years !

I guess I just need to drive a couple to be sure and decide how to sell the Turbo

@BlingBuy the right Giugiaro Turbo and you won’t be disappointed. Don’t scrimp and buy the best you can find. The love these cars get is incredible.....but it’s hardly surprising - they’re both iconic and very pretty!😎 

Below is a pic of mine at a local show from a couple of years ago - it got it’s fair share of attention that day that’s for sure👍

[Lotusfab]

2 minutes ago, stephenwhyte said:

@BlingBuy the right Giugiaro Turbo and you won’t be disappointed. Don’t scrimp and buy the best you can find. The love these cars get is incredible.....but it’s hardly surprising - they’re both iconic and very pretty!😎 

Below is a pic of mine at a local show from a couple of years ago - it got its fair share of attention that’s for sure👍

Very nice, I want one!

[stephenwhyte]

Just now, Lotusfab said:

Very nice, I want one!

Says it all really.....when the man with 2 wants another😉😂

[Lotusfab]

I think these cars are fantastic. I have been  involved with them for eight years. They are very undervalued and iconic. I have always wanted one since I was ten years old. Their attraction never fades. I am really looking forward to getting out of lockdown and racking up some miles. Cortina here I come! 

But Stephen, I really like your car!!! If i win the lottery I will be buying one of every colour and model!

[Kevin Wheeler]

Here is another vote for a G Turbo. I absolutely love mine.

I have only managed to lose the back end twice. Which is why I also vote for not driving on 10 year old tyres with a turbo that over-boosts all the way round the dial in the pouring rain! Once those small issues fixed - absolutely fantastic!

[Bling]

1 hour ago, stephenwhyte said:

@BlingBuy the right Giugiaro Turbo and you won’t be disappointed. Don’t scrimp and buy the best you can find. The love these cars get is incredible.....but it’s hardly surprising - they’re both iconic and very pretty!😎 

Below is a pic of mine at a local show from a couple of years ago - it got it’s fair share of attention that day that’s for sure👍

 

Beautiful car @stephenwhyte

[Bling]

1 hour ago, Kevin Wheeler said:

Here is another vote for a G Turbo. I absolutely love mine.

I have only managed to lose the back end twice. Which is why I also vote for not driving on 10 year old tyres with a turbo that over-boosts all the way round the dial in the pouring rain! Once those small issues fixed - absolutely fantastic!

You have to be careful of tyres !

I was in France once with a few friends. One had a Porsche 996 GT3 RS. We were out at a restaurant at night and on the way back, one of his tyres blew out. Luckily we were not pushing the cars hard as it was late and he managed to control it without any damage. We put the small size spare on and got back to our accommodation.

The reason for the blow out was due to his tyres being 12 years old ! Due to only using the car for special trips and therefore low mileage, there was lots of tread but the rubber had hardened and become brittle causing the blow out.

Needless to say, he went hunting for four new tyres the next morning and taught us all a lesson.

2 hours ago, MPx said:

Where abouts in the country are you, we may know a friendly owner nearby?

I am in North London, near the Hertfordshire and Essex borders

Edited February 16 by Bling

[ChrisJ]

I've added you to our monthly PM - been a bit quiet of late, but once things re-open, we'll start back with a Sunday breakfast (maybe April)

[MPx]

Well that sounds like the heart of "HECler" country - I expect ChrisJ will be along soon to sign you up...or pop into their group thread on here to join in.  Obviously at the moment that'll be joinging in to nothing, but hopefully it wont be too long now before we're allowed out again.  If freedom comes before the end of May, get yourself down to Castle Combe on the Sat of the Bank Hol w/e and a number of us will have our cars there to ogle at, sit in and maybe get a pax ride if the timing is right.

 

Edit: beat me to it Chris!