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Cannot start.

Charged battery - fine.

Ignition on, starter spins.

Cannot hear pump, which is 3 y.o. run like I usually can.

A bit difficult to reach pins on the 2 pin connector above tank.

I can measure 12,9 Volt at the fuel pump fuse and also on the ingoing side of fuel pump relay.

Car has an original (from importer) fittet Unicum alarm, which prevents start, locks the central locking etc. That seems to work fine.

So, to trigger the fuel pump relay, there is a coil that moves the position from no power to pump and injectors, to power open to those.

That is a wire controlled directly from the ECU. Is that wire directly going from the ecu locally, to the relay? Or is it passing by the front of the car, ignition switch, other relays, alarm cut off or?

Any ideas are most wellcome. I am now going to test power on the fuel pump fuse, the fuelpump relay and the inertia switch and the closest to tank connector again (it was pretty late last night).

I have changed the inertia switch and the fuel pump relay (same as some of the aircon relays) already - no go.

Starter spins like mad and are fine.

Is the fuel pump with it's only two wires going into the tank, a roller mechanical type, that does not depend on electrical control, and thereby deciding itself by eans of having too little or enough pressure in itself? Or is it controlled by say the ecu always?

I can try to install another ecm also.

Kind regards,

jacques

Edited by Jacques

Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

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  • Jacques changed the title to Fuelpump no power?

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Hmm... It turns out so, that today I took a close look at the Bosch pump I bought from an american seller some 3 years ago, and took the ends off, which then surfaced a few small green plastic threads

The fuel pump relay is controlled by the ECU. The simplest way to see if the ECU is the problem is to remove the relay and jumper pins 30 to 87 together in the relay socket and the pump should run. If

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The fuel pump relay is controlled by the ECU. The simplest way to see if the ECU is the problem is to remove the relay and jumper pins 30 to 87 together in the relay socket and the pump should run. If it doesn't then you need to investigate the fuse, inertia switch, pump and associated wiring. Your aftermarket immobiliser could be wired into the circuit too.

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Posted (edited)

Did that, and there is power all the way to the pump, for 2 seconds only (and 10 seconds in another mode), when ignition is turned on. So managed to se that.

Out with the "new" pump, a Bosch, and an old pump on - works. Now ordering a new pump or two.

Thanks!

So, looking at pumps, this one came up:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WALBRO-UPRATED-FUEL-PUMP-LOTUS-ESPRIT-SE-2-2-TURBO-ITP244-/140505049528?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338268676&toolid=10044&customid=CjwKCAjwgZuDBhBTEiwAXNofRJL1zZ9Vi2gajXbZQV7Y0sdrKGZsTNOUdfpLmsz11B-U_Ad32JEqFRoCHmAQAvD_BwE

Does anyone have an opinion on that? Any good?

Or another Bosch 69218 pump?

Kind regards,

Jacques

Edited by Jacques

Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

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All right, so I just got canned by a f.....g chinese company pretending they sell the real deal, Bosch 69218 pump. Hmmm... Fortunately paypal can step in.

SO, needing a genuine Bosch 69218 fuel pump, can someone please direct me to one, or two, please?

Kind regards,

jacques

Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

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One down on Ebay has add from LotusBits selling Bosch for £140 plus £10 delivery.

I have no idea if that is good value.

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bosch-Fuel-Pump-Lotus-Esprit-S3-Turbo-X180-Carb-Turbo-SE/283909106676?hash=item421a4d2bf4:g:FDwAAOSwQo5e17wr

 

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Too bad Jacques, but glad you've found the cause.

I'm sure Little Red Riding Hood will soon be up an running!

Just to add, when mine didn't want to fire a while ago (after replacing the clutch) it turned out to be a bad earth connection, the earth wires from the ECU etc to the bellhousing. I could get the pump to run by bridging the relay, so knew that was fine.

Filip

I have made many mistakes in my life. Buying a multiple Lotus is not one of them.

 

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Market is flooded by chinese fakes. Bosch pumps are a primary example.

Walbro pumps with "Made in USA" stamped on the housing are genuine.

The rest is a crap shoot, even Bosch.

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Posted (edited)

So it would appear.

The pump that Damien links to, seems to be a totally different design, not fitting the SE.

I will now look at the walbro pump, just have to find a suitable spec.

I'll write that here, once it's ordered.

 

Question: is it an absolute must to have to pulse damper on the original pump (not fitted to the Bosch)?

Kind regards,

Jacques

Edited by Jacques

Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

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Here's a picture of my dead pump from Bosch, bought via fleabay from USA. Lasted 3 years.

Any way to determine if this is a chinese copy? To me at least, it looks genuine. So does box and fittings which I still have.

Kind regards,

Jacques

IMG_0100.JPG

Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

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Yes, and so did I. I won't re-install it.

I think I am going to order a Walbro like the one I linked to.

Kind regards,

Jacques

Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

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15 hours ago, Jacques said:

Here's a picture of my dead pump from Bosch, bought via fleabay from USA. Lasted 3 years.

Any way to determine if this is a chinese copy? To me at least, it looks genuine. So does box and fittings which I still have.

Kind regards,

Jacques

IMG_0100.JPG

Inscription says "Bosch", but this pump was made in Brazil, which makes it a subject to many manufacturing variabilities affecting product reliability, like metallurgy, tooling tolerances, plastics composition, assembly line ambient temperature and humidity, etc, etc.

Edited by MrDangerUS
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Despite the ‘Made in Brazil’ there’s no reason why it should not be a genuine Bosch fuel pump. Pretty much every major manufacturer has long since opened plants all over the world to produce their products.

Margate Exotics.

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Are you sure the Bosch 0 580 453 477 is suitable? Bosch lists its flow rate as 105 l/hr at 3 bar. Lotus state the OE pump is capable of delivering 4 - 5 times the maximum fuel required at 3.8 bar.

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Following Travis' recommendation, I fitted exactly the same Bosch pump in April 2017. I posted about it somewhere in my refurb thread, and yes, it was made in Brazil, exactly the same P/N, see photo.

I can't comment on the flow rate because I never measured it, however I remember subsequent Freescanning showed no issue with running too rich or lean and I've run it for 10,000 miles since then. After the recent engine rebuild, I had to check the fuel rail pressure when I was having another issue (which turned out to be the vacuum hose had fallen off the FPR :rolleyes:). It will have met the spec or I would have changed it for something else. On my car at least, the car runs fine with this pump, no problems.

 

 

5895aa202ca99_Photo03-02-2017160908.thumb.jpg.631fef064ea6b5b78c072af60bc45a6b.jpg

 

 

Margate Exotics.

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5 hours ago, sailorbob said:

Are you sure the Bosch 0 580 453 477 is suitable? Bosch lists its flow rate as 105 l/hr at 3 bar. Lotus state the OE pump is capable of delivering 4 - 5 times the maximum fuel required at 3.8 bar.

Derek,  I have read that in the Lotus manual... However, they did fit a higher output pump to the X180-R and another even larger one to the Sport 300... If the original SE Delco pump were good for 3-4x the fuel requirements of the engine at 264hp to 280hp, then why the larger pump for 280-300hp? If I recall correctly the SE pump was rated for 120Lph? Could be wrong.

In my experience, I had an X180-R pump (original lightly used from a friend's X180-R that I put in my car in 2002). It died in 2011.  I started to get a boost cut, to the mechanical wastegate limit, for several minutes and a surge and back fire. 

I replaced the pump and drove again on the same 90F day within 1 hour and the lean condition was gone. 

I do have an A:F meter in the car, and after the new pump I was getting 10.1:1, 11.1:, 12.2:1 at WOT in various gears, with a 14.6:1 at idle or coasting. The static fuel pressure was high with no loss after an hour. The idle pressure was 43psi, and the max pressure with boost was about 57-60psi.

Spark plugs looked good, not lean. 

 

Travis

Vulcan Grey 89SE

My Lotus Photo and Projects Album

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Ian, you cannot rely on Freescan to show whether it's going lean under load because you will be in open loop fuelling and the narrowband lambda sensor is not able to give the ECU feedback on the A/F ratio. Looking through a Bosch fuel pump catalogue the highest BHP engine I could find the 0 580 453 477 pump listed for is rated at 220 bhp. I personally wouldn't be happy with that pump.

Travis, I am dubious about what Lotus state is the fuel flow for the stock fuel pump but it's what they give and I cannot find a verified OEM part number for the pump to check it. Regarding the fitment of different fuel pump to the S300 if I had to guess (which I dislike doing) I'd wonder if the pump was changed to cope with the increased fuel pressure regulator pressure that the S300 is reputed to have.  I believe you are using a Bosch 69218 pump, is this correct? I cannot find the corresponding Bosch 10 digit part number for the 69218, do you know what it is?

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Hey Derek,

I don't have a photo showing my BOSCH pump engraving apparently. I believe Ian is saying he bought a 69218, which has 0 580 453 477 on it.

That pump is listed as a cross reference for the 5.7L 1989 Chevrolet Corvette V8.

At the time I looked in 2011, I couldn't find any listing of the flow. Which catalog are you looking at?

Travis

Vulcan Grey 89SE

My Lotus Photo and Projects Album

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I bought the 69218 in 2017, it's listed as fitting the following:-

Buyer's Guide : BOSCH 69218 Fuel Pump
CHEVROLET CAMARO 1985-1992
CHEVROLET CAPRICE 1994-1996
CHEVROLET CORVETTE 1984-1989
PONTIAC 6000 1988-1989
PONTIAC FIREBIRD 1985-1992
PONTIAC GRAND PRIX 1989-1990
Please refer to catalog for application details.

Sadly, there's no info listed on pressure or fuel rates, but I maintain that the pump has been performing well for me for nearly 10,000 miles, and there was no sign of any lean running when I took the engine apart last year.

 

Margate Exotics.

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Couldn't help but notice this youtube post yesterday - probably one of the above and not just a coincidence.

It may help?

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I hope he's going to test it first. Knowing my luck, I'd have bought the only duff Walbro pump ever produced.

Anyway, I imagine a quick dyno session would determine whether the fuel pump is doing the job.

Margate Exotics.

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