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Lotus Emira


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What is not OK is hostility and personal attacks towards a person for their views on - a CAR. I have not made any personal remarks or called for anyone to be banned or blocked or whatever. It is pretty extremist thing to do to seek to silence views you don’t agree with and rally hostility towards a person even worse when it’s just a discussion about something as trivial as cars.

I will do the reasonable minded members here the decency of leaving the discussion. But the haters need to have a word with themselves.

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I came within knat's whisker of buying an Evora 410. A gorgeous low mileage yellow one that Oakmere had a couple for years back. As an ex-Exige owner it was just the sort of more focused Evora I was looking for. I just couldn't get on with the seats which were mounted bolt upright with no under thigh support. Looked quite seriously at replacing the seats or the runners but then decided having to do that was mad on £70k car. Then the GT410 came along, same chassis settings, but Sparcos mounted way too high for me and not height adjustable. Aghhh! These are the kind of frustrations that hopefully Lotus will do away with on the Emira.

Re the Emira being softer, it is going to be available with Cup tyres and stiffer sport suspension from the start, so I like to think that it is already part way to being a Sport/Racing/Club type car. Still a long wait until anyone gets to drive it to find out though.

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Yeah, and remember, Matt and others have said it is dynamically better then the Evora so let's trust them.

It might be softer in 'ethos' but it will still be a fabulously engaging weapon of mass joy.

If it has an engine, I am there to thrash it.

My Emira Videos  |  Into Motorcycles? Motorcycle Channel

 

 

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Late response as been out but glad to see no pitchforks re my Ferrari fun! Indeed, a HaHa - thanks whoever. Sure great majority here recognise light-hearted casual remarks - long wait until Emira-time!

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4 hours ago, freefall_junkie said:

I came within knat's whisker of buying an Evora 410. A gorgeous low mileage yellow one that Oakmere had a couple for years back. As an ex-Exige owner it was just the sort of more focused Evora I was looking for. I just couldn't get on with the seats which were mounted bolt upright with no under thigh support. Looked quite seriously at replacing the seats or the runners

I was looking at that same car but Oakmere didn't really seem to be too interested in doing any sort of a deal with me (strange, twice I have had that impression from them) and at the same time Silverstone also had a yellow 410 Sport. So I phoned Aimee about that and somehow what transpired was a phone conversation that started with Hi Aimee, about that 2nd hand 410 Sport in yellow and ended with, Bye Aimee, thanks for talking me into buying your brand new Fire Red sport!  I then changed the seat brackets and have never really looked back!  JFDI!

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I came into this world screaming and covered in someone elses blood. I'll probably leave it in the same way. 

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I drove the original many years ago and did like it but just couldn't ever actually get the one as I am one of those, probably deluded, people who believe you have to get a 911 and anything else is utter bollocks.

I imagine it is superb in every way but I won't bother with a test drive. My heart has already decided.  I might drive one after for a fun comparison video. The other issue is, of course, if I did go for a Cayman, then it would only be a GT4 which is pretty expensive. I'd rather get an older GT3 911.

In looks, exclusivity and in most dynamics the Emira looks, to me, the better buy.

If it has an engine, I am there to thrash it.

My Emira Videos  |  Into Motorcycles? Motorcycle Channel

 

 

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Just read through this thread, it seems to me that the Toyota V6 is the weak link in the Emira package for some people, ie BHP/Torque, may be there are contractual or financial reasons why they are using it, or maybe it was a safe bet.

we all know that all Lotus models have steady increases in power through their production runs, and I would say that the AMG option has had it’s power output held back so as not to embarrass the V6 as it would impact sales.

Radford are suggesting future outputs of 500BHP for the V6 although they did not actually say it would be the Toyota unit,  I would imagine this would involve great expense and the upgrading of all important internals parts, then there are the gearbox limits to think about.

Thinking out loud, Lotus did not know how much demand there would be for the Emira, and could not throw absolutely everything they had at it in one go, so far it has been well received and if all the deposits translate in to sales things will be looking very good at Hethel. I think the tie up with AMG Mercedes is good news and if the Emira continues to sell well I would not be at all surprised to see a larger displacement  AMG engine available for a top of the range model in the next two years or so which would put the cat amongst the pigeons

This would give us three model choices,

The sub £60k 4 pot with sub 400 BHP

The V6 Toyota   £70k 400+ BHP

The flagship model at £100k 550+ BHP

Personally I am in the £60k 4 pot bracket and that car would give me everything I wanted.
Although we have had no firm prices as of yet,I personally don’t see the reason for the  talked about £10-15k premium for the Toyota over the Mercedes, as other than sound and manual box there is very little in it performance wise, and I wouldn’t think that much money wise either.

 

 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Francisco Franco said:

I personally don’t see the reason for the  talked about £10-15k premium for the Toyota over the Mercedes,

Yep, nobody, not even Lotus dealers know how this will actually pan out.

It has to have more sexy bits on it to make up that sort of difference.

When I originally put my deposits down I actually though the leading car was £105k. I can't recall why I thought that now.

£6x,xxx looks like a stone cold bargain to me and even 80k looks good for its looks and what will be an excellent dynamic package,

If it has an engine, I am there to thrash it.

My Emira Videos  |  Into Motorcycles? Motorcycle Channel

 

 

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Absolutely. I was actually expecting the 105k version to be at least 430HP and full of carbon bits.

If it has an engine, I am there to thrash it.

My Emira Videos  |  Into Motorcycles? Motorcycle Channel

 

 

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On 24/08/2021 at 21:04, Francisco Franco said:

Just read through this thread, it seems to me that the Toyota V6 is the weak link in the Emira package for some people, ie BHP/Torque, may be there are contractual or financial reasons why they are using it, or maybe it was a safe bet.

we all know that all Lotus models have steady increases in power through their production runs, and I would say that the AMG option has had it’s power output held back so as not to embarrass the V6 as it would impact sales.

Radford are suggesting future outputs of 500BHP for the V6 although they did not actually say it would be the Toyota unit,  I would imagine this would involve great expense and the upgrading of all important internals parts, then there are the gearbox limits to think about.

Thinking out loud, Lotus did not know how much demand there would be for the Emira, and could not throw absolutely everything they had at it in one go, so far it has been well received and if all the deposits translate in to sales things will be looking very good at Hethel. I think the tie up with AMG Mercedes is good news and if the Emira continues to sell well I would not be at all surprised to see a larger displacement  AMG engine available for a top of the range model in the next two years or so which would put the cat amongst the pigeons

This would give us three model choices,

The sub £60k 4 pot with sub 400 BHP

The V6 Toyota   £70k 400+ BHP

The flagship model at £100k 550+ BHP

Personally I am in the £60k 4 pot bracket and that car would give me everything I wanted.
Although we have had no firm prices as of yet,I personally don’t see the reason for the  talked about £10-15k premium for the Toyota over the Mercedes, as other than sound and manual box there is very little in it performance wise, and I wouldn’t think that much money wise either.

I think they're using the Toyota V6 because it's very well known to Lotus so known reliability, less development cost, and probably cheaper to buy than a new V6 due to age and impending emissions non-compliance.  Also a known quantity for the dealer network to service.

Radford said they're going to 500hp and on to 600hp with the same Toyota V6 but with heavy modification.  There are current V6 Exiges and Evoras running 500hp+ with the uprated supercharger and some strengthened internals plus different gearbox.  Doable but £15-20k+.

I'm sure Lotus will do hotter versions of the AMG in a couple of years.  I'm not sure they'd go for a completely different AMG engine, as the development effort compared to upgrading the launch engine may not be justified if they've only got 7-10 years of ICE left to run.

The £10-15k premium is for the First Edition compared to base own-spec, not the V6 vs i4 premium - that's not been declared yet and I'm guessing will be £2-3k.

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1 hour ago, TomE said:

The £10-15k premium is for the First Edition

Yeah, this is the thing we have no facts about.

I think the FE will have the KEF Stereo. The others are assumptions and are likely the drivers pack with all the top tech and safety options. We don't even know if it includes premium interior seating options, all the paint options and black pack option.

Basically, we still know bugger all. 😃

Some of us will be delighted, some will be 'meh' and others may be aghast.

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If it has an engine, I am there to thrash it.

My Emira Videos  |  Into Motorcycles? Motorcycle Channel

 

 

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On 23/08/2021 at 22:25, Bee said:

The (£76K) competition...

 

 

I genuinely think the Emira (either engine option) will beat that in most categories! Interesting that the GT4 is still 1420kg, by the way.

My GT4 will make way for the Emira v6 manual (final price depending).  The GT4 replaced a v6 exige, and although it was considerably more expensive than the Exige, and I will say this in hushed tones. Comprehensively a better drivers car. 

The Emira is a heart over head purchase though, and I hope it is different enough, not necessarily objectively better than the car it replaces.  As previously mentioned, the “other” sports car. 
 

If I had the means I would keep both. 

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This my tuppence worth. Purely my opinion and no inside information to back it up.

I don’t think we will see a Toyota V6 Emira road car with more than the 430bhp of the flagship Exige and Evora. I just don’t think it’s worth Lotus’ while to open up the engine and gearbox and fit the necessary strengthened internals for 500bhp, suitable for a 3 year warranty with emissions testing etc. In fact there might not even be a 430bhp Toyota V6. They may have enough orders for the launch spec engines to just not bother over the life span of the model.

The I4 on the other hand is surely going to get its wick turned up. I think any further development / higher output will be reserved for the I4.

Funnily enough, we still don’t know for certain exactly what each launch spec engine will be pushing out. As far as I know, it’s still the same 360 - 400bhp mantra. Since the V6 has the charge-cooler, it is clearly at least in 400bhp tune, so we have to assume that the I4 is starting off at the lower end of that scale. Maybe they’ll just make a year or two of familiar V6s to get production up and running and then switch to an uprated I4 only for the rest of the model’s life?

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On 24/08/2021 at 21:04, Francisco Franco said:

The sub £60k 4 pot with sub 400 BHP

The V6 Toyota   £70k 400+ BHP

The flagship model at £100k 550+ BHP

I know what's been published so far re prices, BUT, to be honest, I just have a feeling that ACTUAL launch prices will be above those levels. Materials prices are increasing across the board, shortages of key components (chips etc), manufacturing delays keeping demand high etc.

I'd be amazed if the FE V6 came in at £70k (don't get me wrong, I'd be overjoyed too!) and thinking you'd get a 550+ bhp for £100k, well, honestly, I think whatever your smoking has been cut with too much baby powder to be honest  :)

However, only time will tell, everything else right now is a guess.

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I came into this world screaming and covered in someone elses blood. I'll probably leave it in the same way. 

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9 hours ago, TomE said:

I'm sure Lotus will do hotter versions of the AMG in a couple of years.  I'm not sure they'd go for a completely different AMG engine, as the development effort compared to upgrading the launch engine may not be justified if they've only got 7-10 years of ICE left to run.

The £10-15k premium is for the First Edition compared to base own-spec, not the V6 vs i4 premium - that's not been declared yet and I'm guessing will be £2-3k.

Thanks Tom

some good reasoning there. So if the base Emira in both guises may sit around £58-65K I would like to think that a version with serious power priced around the £100-110k mark or even a tad more  would have a market and be profitable. After all  quite a few Evora’s were this sort of money towards the end.

It would be nice to see Lotus’ final ICE car ending up being the car that set the standard, but perhaps that is just wishful thinking on my part. Anyway, there needs to be a lot of base Emiras to be sold before any radically new model could be financially justified. I personally think it’s going to be a global success, fingers crossed.

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10 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

I'd be amazed if the FE V6 came in at £70k (don't get me wrong, I'd be overjoyed too!) and thinking you'd get a 550+ bhp for £100k, well, honestly, I think whatever your smoking has been cut with too much baby powder to be honest  :)

I understand what you are saying, but I would never of thought an Emira with an AMG engine for under sixty thousand would be possible. At £100-110k that leaves £40-50k for a more powerful engine, better brakes and suspension and a bit of profit. 
surely it is doable?

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I'll also be very pleasantly surprised if the premium for the V6 over the i4 is only 2-3k. I'm working on the assumption that the V6 FE is going to be £80k+ and anything less is a bonus. 

Lucky for Lotus we're such an understanding bunch, waiting in line to buy a car when we haven't a clue to the nearest £10k what it is going to cost 🙂 

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80k puts it in 911 territory. A GTS4.0 with the options that matter is 70k. There are a fair number of Caymans running around where I live but most of them are base and S models. I think between base and GTS is what Lotus needs to aim at price wise if they want to sell the numbers they say they do. Slightly better but higher margin models can be added later.

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We will all be guessing until the day they tell us so it's all a bit of fun for now 😁 I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for what the Lotus representative told me at the Goodwood launch which was that the first edition is £15k of options with a discount then the base V6 price is a little over £60k by which he meant somewhere between £60-£65k (ie £73-£80k FE). I don't reckon it's a big secret they are keeping, I think they're still working out the price! Therefore can everyone stop telling them to make it £75k base for the V6 before I have to sell my Lung as well as my liver 🤣

2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Materials prices are increasing across the board, shortages of key components (chips etc), manufacturing delays keeping demand high etc.

This is a key point, it's tricky business for everyone at the moment, I work in the construction industry and I can tell you costs are through the roof.

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28 minutes ago, IwantOne said:

80k puts it in 911 territory. A GTS4.0 with the options that matter is 70k

85k (not £80k) buys you a bogo standard 911 does it not? But, who ever buys a bogo 911, new or second hand?  However, I very much expect Lotus to go down the Porsche route - £80k for a bogo car, most cars sold at the £90-98k range when compared to a 911.

As for the GTS4.0, that's a Cayman right?  I do believe the Emira is more of a 911 competitor but I may be proven wrong.

I came into this world screaming and covered in someone elses blood. I'll probably leave it in the same way. 

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