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I think it has more to do with Geely not being interested in investing much into ICE than it does because of the reliability. Of course Lotus knowing that engine well is probably a reason too and that's the why the V6 is coming out first, but I don't believe for a second if Lotus had access to something with better performance over reliability they wouldn't be using that instead.

2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing (ON ORDER) ◄ 2017 Lotus Evora 400 (SOLD) ◄ 2013 Lotus Evora S (SOLD) ◄ 2005 Lotus Elise (SOLD) ◄ 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 (SOLD)

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Not so sure. The K series nearly killed Lotus with warranty work, the Toyota engines have virtually no claims. Car companies cannot afford unreliable anything.

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I made a rare claim on a 111R engine. It didn't like to idle but seemed fine on the move after just 2500 miles. After much investigation it was found the engine had a broken valve spring. Pretty much unheard of for that engine at the time. Once fixed it was totally reliable.

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7 minutes ago, gregs24 said:

Not so sure. The K series nearly killed Lotus with warranty work, the Toyota engines have virtually no claims. Car companies cannot afford unreliable anything.

I didn't say unreliable. I said performance over reliability. Its not a binary. Most likely the Toyota is more reliable than the AMG, but they are still using the AMG. My point was I don't think Lotus has much say in it, because Geely has little interest in ICE.

Also,  Lotus has been on a ropes for a long time and using the K series is an example of a company that is more desperate than anything. A case of beggars not being able to be choosers. They got lucky that Toyota allowed them to even use that engine at all, but that engine is already pretty much maxed out at 430HP without updating internals and gearbox which they will never do. IMO its a dead end and I think Lotus knows this, but it made it for an easy (and affordable) transition.

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2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing (ON ORDER) ◄ 2017 Lotus Evora 400 (SOLD) ◄ 2013 Lotus Evora S (SOLD) ◄ 2005 Lotus Elise (SOLD) ◄ 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 (SOLD)

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I may get keel-hauled for double posting and pinching from another thread but, risking that, a recent post on the Future Of Lotus thread by jonwat gives a link as below to an article that, amongst much else relevant to the Emira, quotes Gavan Kershaw on the V6 and the i4. I extracted Gavan’s words from the article, and added my comment - as now copied below.

My apologies and thanks, John, but I expect there are some people over here in the Emira compound who may not have seen your original post of the article.

https://www.whichcar.com.au/features/what-the-emira-means-for-lotus

Lotus vehicle dynamics chief Gavan Kershaw agrees. “I love the V6,” he says. “I’ve grown up with it, and it’s got a really strong character – the throttle connection and the sound, with a manual transmission and an LSD. But you jump in the four-cylinder Emira and it feels super modern and very strong in performance. It’s like being back in my GT4 race car.”

A good read for intending Emira V6 owners? Perhaps not so much.   Gavan Kershaw’s words have to be taken very seriously by all. I’d like to hear him expand on that quote. Really a choice between “strong character” and “strong performance”?  And between feeling like “his GT4 race car” - in which we know he did rather well! - and, er…….. well, not feeling like that, presumably?

Anyone in a position to request “clarification” from Gavan?

Edited by mdavies
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2 hours ago, mdavies said:

Lotus vehicle dynamics chief Gavan Kershaw agrees. “I love the V6,” he says. “I’ve grown up with it, and it’s got a really strong character – the throttle connection and the sound, with a manual transmission and an LSD. But you jump in the four-cylinder Emira and it feels super modern and very strong in performance. It’s like being back in my GT4 race car.”

A good read for intending Emira V6 owners? Perhaps not so much.   Gavan Kershaw’s words have to be taken very seriously by all. I’d like to hear him expand on that quote. Really a choice between “strong character” and “strong performance”?  And between feeling like “his GT4 race car” - in which we know he did rather well! - and, er…….. well, not feeling like that, presumably?

Anyone in a position to request “clarification” from Gavan?

Could you give more specifics regarding what clarification/expansion you're looking for?  I could be missing something, but I don't think there's anything about what Gavan said that really puts anything new into the I4-DCT vs. V6-Manual debate?

Whitey: Lotus is engineering out the "farty" part of your "farty 4 pot" statement 😊. The farts are a Mercedes thing.  The M139 is actually a pretty darn quiet engine unless it has character engineered into its tuning.  The Lotus version will sound nicer, more natural, and no flatulence :).  But don't take that as a comparison to the sound of an I4-turbo to the Lotus SC'ed V6.  It isn't, and, there is none.

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7 hours ago, Whitey said:

Flappy paddle farty 4 pot or V6 manual for my last New Lotus………You’ve not sold it well MD. The V6 may not turn out to be the fastest Emira, but this will be the last ICE car that they produce and for me, plus lots of others on here the V6 plus manual is the one. I think many people buying the V6 will be long term keepers, but I see i4 owners being more transient. Each to their own. I don’t care about slight performance differences that may become apparent, I just want a more involving tuneful ride for the last car I buy.

Nail on head.

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I really rather feel that I will like the i4 more than the V6, but I don't have the patience to wait for the i4!  So as a possibility, it'll be an "upgrade" path.  As we think the V6 is going to come to an end before the i4 and possibly relatively quickly, I think the i4 will be the mainstay of the model and the place where more performance is added (#obvs).  Anyway, I have managed to stop agonising over it, assuring myself that I will be able to change at some stage in the future should I want to.  And the idea of a very yellow V6 Emira in June is very very appealing.

On a side note about the k, just curious really, what was the volume of warranty issues with the k?  Presumably mostly HGF as I thought it was reasonably reliable other than that.

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I look forward to having a drive in an Emira when they are available at the dealer, would want to try both the V6 and i4.  I have done 6 head gasket changes on K series 4 cylinder engines  (the KV6 does not have the same issue) and the current variant of the K engine are much better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_K-series_engine

With the help of Lotus Engineering, NAC went on to produce the N Series an improved version of the K Series with redesigned headgasket and oil rail built on the original tooling.

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Further to my video summary on suspension, I would say the DCT with Touring suspension is the perfect setup for those looking to daily drive the car. It will be a lot of fun too.

I can see a strong case for eiher - or both.

If it has an engine, I am there to thrash it.

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  • 1 month later...

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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On AM online

Agency model car retail must be ‘collaborative and win-win’, says Lotus boss

https://www.am-online.com/news/manufacturer/2022/03/02/agency-model-car-retail-must-be-collaborative-and-win-win-says-lotus-boss

.....launched its Lotus Drive end-to-end online retail platform today (March 2) Dowding told AM that he was aware that other car manufacturers were watching his brand as they “looked for a blueprint” that would help them make the switch from traditional franchised contracts.

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Can anyone translate this please?...

"While Lotus now has the ability to offer more flexible retail solutions, it is also planning more permanent physical retail sites – closing its existing open points.

Dowding said: “We’re talking about two or three additional locations, which aren’t fixed yet.

“The existing retail base is the retail base that we would like to move forward with. We’d prefer to do it with internal opportunities. Our retailers remain of vital importance to us.”"

ETA: translate into English that is!

Edited by Graham Ridgway
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In https://www.am-online.com/news/manufacturer/2022/01/18/lotus-uk-makes-agency-model-retail-switch-ahead-of-emira-deliveries

says..

The Hethel-based, Geely-owned hypercar and sports car manufacturer said that its dealerships – operated by Bell & Colvill, Caffyns, Hendy Group, Endeavour Automotive, JCT600, Oakmere, Parks Motor Group and Rybrook – had adopted the new model.

And it said that a further 10 open points would be filled by new retail facilities “soon”, with North London, Manchester, Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Belfast, Milton Keynes, Sussex, Newcastle and Sheffield all set to gain a franchise point.

Which sounds like shopping centre locations?

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13 minutes ago, Mctaff said:

in english summary: we've yet to fill our head of communications role, and still have the grad writing our marketing releases.

flexible retail - "you can now buy whilst asleep / dreaming"

more physical / closing open points - "we've got no strategy and are just grabbing at words that together make no sense in a single sentence"

locations aren't fixed yet - "we've got no bloody idea, but were asked to publish an update, so here it is"

move forward with existing retail base - "thinly veiled threat that the showrooms had better accept our new t's & c's, or they're out on their arse"

 

edit: perhaps I'm feeling a little harsh today still not having seen a Dark Verdant car!! I guess not all of your quote is lotus wording either...

Fair summary, "flamboozled"

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37 minutes ago, Mctaff said:

I guess not all of your quote is lotus wording either...

It was a straight cut and paste from the article.  But it may have been what the journo wrote rather than what "Mr Lotus Sales Dude " said.  I want to be able to do that thing that sniff petrol does here (eg noted psychology professor Simon Chologee-Prufessah) but I'm not creative enough! 

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I've published the press release and there's a link above but here it is again, word for word from Lotus. 

https://www.thelotusforums.com/latest-news/lotus-cars-news/lotus-launch-drive-for-online-retail-car-sales/

I could rewrite every press release and add some commentary but have always found it's more useful for TLF to have a permanent record of them as is. 

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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