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Cabin carpet foam underlay


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  • Gold FFM

Have bought a gorgeous set of carpets from @Steve V8:

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Need to get some 'underlay' to go under some sections. This is the stock stuff:

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Dynamat has been advised, bit pricey, even the 1/8'' Dynaliner which looks to be the entry level stuff.

Anyone got any recommendations for something that doesn't cost the earth but is better than yoga mats?

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  • Gold FFM

I don’t remember fitting underlay anywhere in the car. Steve’s carpets should be glued down as they are supplied.

The only padded area was the rear bulkhead behind the seats, and for that I used a sheet material from NK Group which has a lead barrier in it. Noise Killer or something like that, I think.

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Margate Exotics.

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  • Gold FFM

To be honest I am rather assuming the existing foam won't survive the existing carpets being removed. Who knows though? 

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This is tongue-in-cheek...🙄

 

But why not take the carpet padding that Lotus installed on the top & bottom of the gas tanks, put it under your new carpet. If you need more, I'm sure other owners would be willing to donate!

 

Fix TWO issues, all at once. 😂 Colin would be proud of you.

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Atwell Haines

'88 Esprit

Succasunna, NJ USA

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From memory the insulation is just 12mm chip foam with a thick vinyl top layer. 

When I replaced my carpets one of my footwell pieces was knackered so I bought a replacement piece off SJ as I needed it in a hurry. What they supplied was similar but not the same as the original. The top layer is thinner but it does the job.

In my old Excel I reused the original vinyl top layer but stripped off the old foam replaced with some new chip foam. 

Does Dynamat have any advantages on fibreglass? I assumed that because the body material is thicker you don’t get the same resonating as you would with steel. I guess there might be some heat insulation advantage though?

 

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Not worth starting anything now...🍺

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  • Gold FFM
3 hours ago, Chillidoggy said:

I don’t remember fitting underlay anywhere in the car. Steve’s carpets should be glued down as they are supplied.

The only padded area was the rear bulkhead behind the seats, and for that I used a sheet material from NK Group which has a lead barrier in it. Noise Killer or something like that, I think.

Maybe it was dropped after the S4 because I've had various bits of carpet in and out of my S4s over the past year while working on it and I've not noticed any insulation in mine either. Mind you I'm long overdue an eye test...

Norfolk Mustard S4s #1 :)

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  • Gold FFM

After trawling back through God knows how many photos, I found there is indeed some kind of padding under the carpets in some places. Just shows you how time fades all the happy memories, particularly stripping out the old carpet which I now remember was an utter bastard to remove.

Also, confirmed that I used Noise Killer for the bulkhead. I know it’s got a thin lead sheet incorporated in it somehow. There must be all kinds of other products like it, though.

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Margate Exotics.

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  • Gold FFM
9 hours ago, eeyoreish said:

Does Dynamat have any advantages on fibreglass? I assumed that because the body material is thicker you don’t get the same resonating as you would with steel. I guess there might be some heat insulation advantage though?

 

I suppose any foam or rubber will just absorb more sound energy, more than the fiberglass alone. For the bulkhead and chassis tunnel sides and top it would also provide more thermal insulation. 

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  • Gold FFM

Your existing carpets will come away from the sound insulation easily. Just be careful with the felt pads on the back of the wheel arches.

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  • Gold FFM

Ahh, OK, thanks Steve. Then hopefully I can just reuse the existing chip foam. I assume the same adhesive that will be used to stick the carpets to the vinyl backing of the foam can be used to fix the foam to the bulkhead, floor etc.?

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I needed to replace some of that felt in the footwells on mine and still have a big roll of it in the loft if you need a piece.  
 

I left my foam in place as it was in OK condition and I’m not convinced by Dynamat. Foam is quite heavy though and iirc there are 2 thick layers on the bulkhead.

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Just did this, still have the insulation in bags in the garage.  The rear bulk head has chip foam, vinyl and aluminum foil.  The center tunnel has foam and vinyl, no foil.  But you wont be messing with the center tunnel.  

I am no expert but when I messed around with old 911s there was lots of discussions about adding modern sound insulation.  Some folks researched and there was a few folks on the forums that were in the business.  The foam absorbs some sound, the vinyl helps with vibration and the foil is mostly a heat barrier as you would expect.  

The thing with the dynamat products is there generally not designed to cover the entire interior.  But I see many install them like this....plus they are heavy.  They are a modern equivalent to vinyl, designed to be used as a 6 x 6 piece in the center of a large flat area,  normally I think you would put in 7 to 10 of these 6 x 6 pieces.  It stops the large flat sheet from vibrating like a drum.

When it comes to foam I remember that closed cell foam was best, I think it lasts longer and its denser.  The denser the better for sound absorption IIRC.  

I re did my interior to kind of copy the X180R, I removed all the sound deadening and vinyl and just installed closed cell foam - mostly 1/2" thick under some thin carpet and Faux Suede.  Pretty happy with the noise level, large weight savings.  

If I was going with a more stock install like you are I would attempt to re-use the original, Mine mostly stayed in tact but there was plenty that stuck to the carpet and came apart.  Use a spatula type tool to carefully separate from the carpet glue.

I think the original is actually an excellent design for sound deadening.  If it disintegrates when you take out the carpet in some areas I think you can buy the chip foam and you can buy a stick on foil heat barrier at many parts stores.  If you cant find the chip foam, here in the states the big hot rod houses (Summit racing) sell products that are a dense foam with the foil already attached.  Should be very similar to OEM.  I am sure its available in the UK.  

A couple of tips -

- Take care around the latch release for rear hatch, I think the entire assembly has to come out

- On the right front floor, in front of the door there is a plastic half tube that is screwed down, if you pull it; it can break, mine did.

- The pros also used to say that it was really important to plug any holes, even tiny holes can trasmit a lot of sound apparently.

Love your new carpet - looks amazing. 

 

 

 

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No doubt these beauties have inherent noise abatement concerns, clearly evident when drumming fingers on any large expanses of the bare GRP, somewhat less so on the chassis sheetmetal. Viewing a TV program on the building of modern exotics I recall a chap applying small patches of Dynamat-like material, pre-cut to the form of apostrophe or teadrdrop, on the firewall of an Aston-Martin. That would seem to validate Erik's point and I would add that noise issues truly get out of hand once resonance sets in, therefore tuning out panel harmonics seems logical.

Further, the isolation of deadening materials in sheet size seems advisable, as Lotus understood in having draped the aft bulkhead either side with heavy mats. Foam which decouples such items from structure seems worthwhile.

Cheers

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  • Gold FFM
On 20/05/2021 at 01:08, Erikl said:

 

- On the right front floor, in front of the door there is a plastic half tube that is screwed down, if you pull it; it can break, mine did.

- The pros also used to say that it was really important to plug any holes, even tiny holes can trasmit a lot of sound apparently.

Love your new carpet - looks amazing. 

 

 

 

Thanks @Erikl. By 'right front floor', I assume you mean passenger side (US)?

I've recently plugged/taped the seatbelt reel housing edges on the engine bay side, it has had a remarkable effect on reducing the sound that comes through the seatbelt slot (right next to one's ear).

Yep, very very happy with @Steve V8's carpets. Am waiting for warmer temps before the onerous task of removing the existing carpets...

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Yes this is a passenger side on a US car.  Its a plastic half a pipe covered with carpet.  It looks like you can pull the carpet up similar to the rest of the floor, but it sticks and tears the plastic.  May not be the same on the RHD cars.  JUst be aware up near the foot wells and if you have to start pulling especially hard, investigate further.  A few minutes investigating and figuring it out would have saved me quite a bit of time fabricating a replacement that was not entirely satisfactory.

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  • Gold FFM

The plastic cover @Eriklrefers to is the cover for the A/C pipes, it's  located at the forward edge of the inner passenger side sill on all Esprits with A/C up to 1992, it's a good tell tell, no extra hump on the passenger side sill means the car left the factory without air conditioning. 

However all JT facelift cars '93on with revised tubs (including your S4 @RobinB5)have those extra little covers on both sides attached by 2 rivets to the front of the inner sill cover and a couple of self tappers to the shell.

The inner sill covers including those extra plastic covers should be removed as one to fit the new carpets, it's not necessary to separate them.

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I think it's been mentioned above somewhere, but it was also suggested to me that Yoga mats make an excellent and cheaper alternative if you buy the right thickness - they are designed not to absorb moisture (sweat) so ideal for purpose.

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