Emira deposits and build slots

[Evotion]

19 minutes ago, James DG said:

Had a chat on the phone with my Lotus dealer. He was working on the assumption that the First Edition V6 would come fully loaded at £85k.

That has always been my expectation. Certainly not lower than £80K though that would be a pleasant surprise.

When it was first brought to my attention I was expecting to pay £105K so anything lower than that is very, very good news indeed.

 

19 minutes ago, James DG said:

I'm going to hold out hope that it comes in closer to 75!

Ha.. the next version might do, as it will be a base model with the money made on options.

[James DG]

Either way, deposit has been down for a while so I'm going to have to pony up.

Wouldn't want to go back on my word, now would I?!

[Evotion]

24 minutes ago, James DG said:

Either way, deposit has been down for a while so I'm going to have to pony up.

Wouldn't want to go back on my word, now would I?!

I believe next Pony-Up might be September.

I assume that they become non-refundable and might ask for more. No idea how Lotus works and it might be different from before,.

[Emiralust]

My thoughts would be that they launched the car without naming the price in order to gauge the response and price afterwards. If the demand is as high as it seems it’s basic business to put that price up. I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody from lotus was reading this thread! I know that’s what i would be doing. How much they can up the price before losing too many deposits is the trick. Dealers are probably rubbing their hands together when somebody asks how much.

Lets say the v6 is £70k before the first edition option, Is manufacture and supply from AMG of the 4cyl going to be (70-60) £10k+ Cheaper than the v6  which Lotus have also been buying for years. I would expect AMG’s deal to Lotus to carry a premium? I’m not an expert so couldn’t comment

I’m praying to the petrol gods for £75kish first edition 🙏🏻
 

Green, black pack, tan or icy white interior for me chaps and the design 1 silver alloys 

[freefall_junkie]

Yes, the temptation for them to get greedy with the pricing now must be very high. The one hope I have is that they have said pretty definitively the base car will be sub £60k before options, so it should be possible to put a reasonably specced car on the road for £65k. If it isn't there will be a lot of very miffed deposit holders. 

[TomE]

1 hour ago, Evotion said:

I believe next Pony-Up might be September.

I assume that they become non-refundable and might ask for more. No idea how Lotus works and it might be different from before,.

That's what I'm expecting.  Finalise your spec and commit to a firm order in September, pay a bit more deposit, all becomes non-refundable.

I'm guessing the situation on build timings for V6 vs AMG and First Edition versus free choice of spec will mean each of us will have four possible delivery timeframes.  Going V6 FE will get the earliest delivery (starting from April 2022) followed by AMG FE starting three months later.  The other two options are V6 own spec and AMG own spec but I don't know when those will start to be delivered.  I guess it may depend on uptake on the FE spec.  Will be useful to know.

I'm pretty certain I'll go V6 FE but if the FE pricing is silly and there's a really nice colour added in the +7 for own spec then I may be torn about waiting.  I do have other Lotus I can play with in the meantime  

[duncx]

14 minutes ago, freefall_junkie said:

Yes, the temptation for them to get greedy with the pricing now must be very high. The one hope I have is that they have said pretty definitively the base car will be sub £60k before options, so it should be possible to put a reasonably specced car on the road for £65k. If it isn't there will be a lot of very miffed deposit holders. 

I think we could realistically edit that last sentence to say 'If it isn't there will be a lot of ex deposit holders'

If the LE V6 is coming in at much over £75K I'm going to find it difficult to justify to myself, particularly if the options loaded in are of no interest to me. I really have no need for the likes of 12-way electric seats etc

[Evotion]

1 minute ago, duncx said:

If the LE V6 is coming in at much over £75K I'm going to find it difficult to justify to myself, particularly if the options loaded in are of no interest to me. I really have no need for the likes of 12-way electric seats etc

Fair point - Lotus could overdo it. 

For me, on the V6, the more the better, so long as it looks like I am getting a discount on those extra discount rather than waiting.

[duncx]

Yep, I reckon if they fully load the LE cars for an extra £5K then it's a no brainer 

Then I woke up ....... 

:lol:

Edited July 13, 2021 by duncx

[Evotion]

8 minutes ago, TomE said:

The other two options are V6 own spec and AMG own spec but I don't know when those will start to be delivered. 

This was actually my initial desire and expectation.

Mind you, my Wishlist of a custom paint job, scissor doors, carbon roof, carbon seats, carbon splitters, fully exposed gearshift and spare wheels didn't do down well. 🤡

[MJON]

8 hours ago, ramjet said:

Welcome to TLF @MJON 

Did you finally get your deposit placed?

You should duck over to the Introductions area and say hi in there as well.  

Yes, deposit placed and confirmation received, thanks to the guidance here and absolutely brilliant support from Lotus relationship team. Just sit back and relax now 😊

[AstonGoes]

I was told all dealer deposits will be honoured the factory already have a list 

[simonb]

options will be an interesting thing, as this is a new market for Lotus (being less niche)

Porsche poverty spec is not a car with great residuals, as there are deemed to be essential extras.  Given that Emira is lining up against Cayman, and only a bit south of the 911, then there may be quite a few potential purchasers who will go deep into the options list 

[TomE]

I agree, and if they can keep the First Edition spec looking like a decently-priced package then that will set a benchmark.  I was told £15-17k of options discounted to around £12k.  If that includes some good extras on driving, comfort, infotainment and tech then I think people will be happy to have them.  Where it'll get tricky is if there are things adding up to the £3-4k discount that people aren't that bothered about, as that may cause them to delay for an own-spec car.  That is probably more of a buyer problem that a Lotus problem, unless the FE spec ends up being £80k+

[AstonGoes]

Also heard 550 to be built in year 1 but due to interest this may increase as I heard once if you have 10 customers only build nine products 

[glen8]

8 hours ago, Bibs said:

Good man, great decision that I'm sure you won't regret! Welcome

I wonder if anyone at Porsche is sitting up and taking notice yet?

 

I think they will be watching, but knowing Porsche they probably won't care.  They are all about keeping the marque exclusive.  If you walk into a dealership, there is a high chance they won't let you purchase a GT4, even if you have a decent history with them.

Lotus need to be careful with pricing though.

718 Cayman S (2.5 Turbo) - £54,990inc VAT

718 Cayman GTS 4.0 (4.0 NA) - £65,390inc VAT

718 Cayman GT4 (4.0 NA) - £76,530inc VAT

I see there is a Lotus convenience pack, no idea what that contains but "if" we assume the Emira comes with all the toys as standard you can add on an extra £4,557 worth of Porsche options:

LED Lights £1,397
Light design package £210
Folding Mirrors £210
Auto Wipers £345
Rear Camera £464
Lane Assist £413
Cruise Control £228
Entry and Drive £422
Funtional Steering Wheel £329
Climate Control £539

£4,557

That brings a similar spec Cayman S to £59,547 and a GTS to £69,947.  I'm wondering if the AMG will indeed be £60k and the V6 £70k (plus the rumoured £15k worth of launch edition extras) to £85k.  That said, I can't see Lotus adding £10k for the V6 engine?  There is also a bit of overlap with pricing and options.  The post earlier sounded plausible, but we'll have to see.  Going to be a long few weeks this!

Adding on like for like Porchase extras to match a launch edition just for reference:

Paint £632
Alloys £1,566
14 Way Seats £1,599
Interior £1,242

Bose Audio £834
or
Burmester Audio £2,769

Edited July 13, 2021 by glen8

[marcfair]

Yeah lotus need to get the pricing right

When the dust settles if its Evora money sales will slow right down but maybe not quite evora levels 

Already  got me out and the average car buyer  at £65k plus unfortunately. Now their is  no elise so we  need a car to start at top elise money in ideal world 👍

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by marcfair

[Pugwash]

So this is the sign next to the car at Goodwood.  Assume it’s an i4 at £59k.  How much to add the listed options to get to a First Edition?

 

[glen8]

a lot more, but the LE I believe has discounted some of the options.  Non LE with the options at full price will be pretty expensive I think.

Once the initial euphoria wears off, and the price is confirmed people are going to start asking questions.  The cayman is the benchmark, especially the GTS.

This is the rebirth of Lotus.  They need to win over those Audi TTS/RS, BMW M/Z and Porsche customers.  I think that's the plan isn't it?  To go a bit more mainstream?

It all comes down to what you get for your £60k I think.  Don't think anyone is against a few choice options, but if it's going to quickly ramp up to £70k+ I think they will have a tough time.  It's fun to speculate though.

Ideally they need to undercut the competition, get a load on the road so the brand becomes more of a household name before the SUV or Emira EV launches.  The timing is pretty perfect as launching this in 2023/24/25 could pit them against an Etron TT or 718 EV.

Then there's the elephant in the room.  The car itself is only half the battle.  The world revolves around finance and debt.  Lotus is going to need a good finance partner to offer some tasty deals, I think they also get a kickback.  The price can be cheaper, but if someones looking at a 360bhp i4 Lotus at £60k or a 400bhp Porsche GTS 4.0 at £65k and Porsche are offering a decent finance package, that alone can swing it for a lot of people.  Not everyone knows about 3rd party finance, and many simply want to deal directly with the dealership.

The looks alone might not be enough.....but it might be.  It is a gorgeous looking thing.  Hopefully they can convert all those deposits into sales and do very well.  The initial sales hit is one thing, sustaining sales over the longer term is something else.  Competition is fierce, but it does look like they hit a home run with this one!

[Cooper]

I agree totally @glen8 and the safety of a refundable deposit carries the burden of expectation vs reality.  Well for myself anyway!

I'm sure one or two of us has heard of the GR Yaris.  It's a once in a generation production for sure, but that's not enough.  Segment beating pricing, and a two year 0% finance agreement from Toyota direct, along with a £250 refundable deposit (at any stage even up to the day you go to collect the car) no doubt turned hype into reality for the lucky customers.

The opposite is true here too, the Porsche GT car unobtainium strategy.  Yes it is unfair to compare say a 718 Cayman GT4, that might well be £83k with a few options ticked, but only available to a special few who are serial OPC customers.  If a LE Emira V6 is that sort of cash, as many have said in this thread it's a chasm from £60k they won't want to jump.

It's great we're even having this conversation though.  Go Lotus!

[Jack Stone]

FWIW, I was told by a "retail representative" on the FOS stand, when discussing placing a deposit, to expect to pay around £75k for the FE I was ordering. Also to expect to have to sign contract and switch to non-refundable deposit around Sep

 

[glen8]

1 minute ago, Cooper said:

I agree totally @glen8 and the safety of a refundable deposit carries the burden of expectation vs reality.  Well for myself anyway!

I'm sure one or two of us has heard of the GR Yaris.  It's a once in a generation production for sure, but that's not enough.  Segment beating pricing, and a two year 0% finance agreement from Toyota direct, along with a £250 refundable deposit (at any stage even up to the day you go to collect the car) no doubt turned hype into reality for the lucky customers.

The opposite is true here too, the Porsche GT car unobtainium strategy.  Yes it is unfair to compare say a 718 Cayman GT4, that might well be £83k with a few options ticked, but only available to a special few who are serial OPC customers.  If a LE Emira V6 is that sort of cash, as many have said in this thread it's a chasm from £60k they won't want to jump.

It's great we're even having this conversation though.  Go Lotus!

Yep, Lotus at the minute is in 'brand awareness' mode.  You ask 100 random people on the street if they can picture an Audi TT, BMW M2, Porsche Cayman and most if not everyone can....or at least they've heard the name and have an idea of what one is.  You ask the same 100 people if they can picture a Lotus Evora or a Lotus Elise and they won't....many won't have even heard the name.  Hell, I've never seen an Evora on the road in my City!

This can play into their hands though.  The minute the Emira hits the road, it's going to start turning heads and people will ask "what car is that?, I want one!".  They'll think it's a £100k car until they check the website.  If they can then walk into a dealership and actually order one, fantastic!!!!  The same can't be said about Porsche.  The GT4 is a joke, but I can see why they do it.

[simonb]

8 minutes ago, Jack Stone said:

FWIW, I was told by a "retail representative" on the FOS stand, when discussing placing a deposit, to expect to pay around £75k for the FE I was ordering. Also to expect to have to sign contract and switch to non-refundable deposit around Sep

 

If that is correct and a manual V6 with a lot of options comes in at £75K, that seems really cheap to me (£10K less than a runout evora)

Edited July 13, 2021 by simonb

[emstan]

2 hours ago, glen8 said:

I think they will be watching, but knowing Porsche they probably won't care.  They are all about keeping the marque exclusive.  If you walk into a dealership, there is a high chance they won't let you purchase a GT4, even if you have a decent history with them.

Lotus need to be careful with pricing though.

718 Cayman S (2.5 Turbo) - £54,990inc VAT

718 Cayman GTS 4.0 (4.0 NA) - £65,390inc VAT

718 Cayman GT4 (4.0 NA) - £76,530inc VAT

I see there is a Lotus convenience pack, no idea what that contains but "if" we assume the Emira comes with all the toys as standard you can add on an extra £4,557 worth of Porsche options:

LED Lights £1,397
Light design package £210
Folding Mirrors £210
Auto Wipers £345
Rear Camera £464
Lane Assist £413
Cruise Control £228
Entry and Drive £422
Funtional Steering Wheel £329
Climate Control £539

£4,557

That brings a similar spec Cayman S to £59,547 and a GTS to £69,947.  I'm wondering if the AMG will indeed be £60k and the V6 £70k (plus the rumoured £15k worth of launch edition extras) to £85k.  That said, I can't see Lotus adding £10k for the V6 engine?  There is also a bit of overlap with pricing and options.  The post earlier sounded plausible, but we'll have to see.  Going to be a long few weeks this!

Adding on like for like Porchase extras to match a launch edition just for reference:

Paint £632
Alloys £1,566
14 Way Seats £1,599
Interior £1,242

Bose Audio £834
or
Burmester Audio £2,769

I've made a similar quick comparison for Germany:

Cayman S - 69.5k EUR
Cayman GTS - 84k EUR
Cayman GT4 - 98k EUR

Emira's supposed to start at 72k. I think we can assume it will have more standard equipment than a Cayman, so it'll put it in the same bracket. Asking +10k GBP (ca. 12k EUR) for a V6 and another 12k GBP (15k EUR) for equipment, would put it right on the GT4's level (which, if Lotus's really aiming at 416 HP and the GT4 has 414 would potentially make sense from that perspective), which might be kind of a tough sell, especially that one can already find second-hand GT4s. Being fine with options' prices, I really hope that they won't go for +10k for a V6...

Edited July 13, 2021 by emstan

[glen8]

It's going to make a lot of people think for sure