Details from dealer on Dutch radio show

[JJ]

A friend alerted me to a Dutch radio show (BNR, De Nationale Autoshow) broadcast live last Friday at 3 PM where the owner (Willem van der Kooi) of the only Dutch Lotus dealership talks about the Emira.

Lots of interesting tidbits. I'm not sure how correct any of it is, some things conflict with information reported by others. What follows is in order of being mentioned, not everything is necessarily new.

- Not the same platform as the Evora

- The next release - available H2 '22 - is an electric SUV, of which he's seen the designs and calls it gorgeous

- In '23, there will be a second SUV, of a different size than the first one

- In '24, they will be looking at an Elise/Exige successor

- The AMG I4 will come first and deliver more than 400HP (heavily conflicts)

- The Toyota V6 will come second and deliver more than 500HP (heavily conflicts)

- He thought the FoS car demoed was an I4, but I'm pretty sure it was the V6

- For the AMG, base price including VAT is 55K GBP in the UK, 88K EUR including VAT and carbon tax in the Netherlands

- The AMG produces 180 g/km CO2 WLTP, interesting carbon-tax wise

- An adjustable sports suspension will be available

- All sports cars will be built in Hethel, while the SUVs will be built in China. The Chinese factory should be completed by the end of the year and should be building pre-production models for that SUV early next year.

- By '26 the dealership is expected (by Lotus) to increase revenue 33-fold (!), which he thinks is attainable with the new models

Edited July 11, 2021 by JJ
Added Chinese factory

[Julian73]

 

12 minutes ago, JJ said:

- The AMG I4 will come first and deliver more than 400HP (heavily conflicts)
- The Toyota V6 will come second and deliver more than 500HP (heavily conflicts)

- He thought the FoS car demoed was an I4, but I'm pretty sure it was the V6
 

Well his credibility is suspect as the running car at FoS was the Toyota 2GR-FE V6, the AMG M139 4-pot will be released 3 to 6 months after the V6.

[Likuid]

Ever since the Evija Lotus has been very vague on performance numbers. Is this some kind of subterfuge or is this them truly not knowing? I find it really hard to believe that with both the Evija and Emira, which have been in development for over 2.5 years, they don't have any performance figures really nailed down?

Yes I know the claimed 2000HP of the Evija, but even in some interviews its eluded to that it may end up with more.

Now I would be shocked if the Emira V6 had 500HP, but I could see it at least being the 416 of the Evora GT or the 430 of the GT430. Its almost like Lotus doesn't want the competition to know the final numbers.

[JJ]

8 hours ago, Julian73 said:

 

Well his credibility is suspect as the running car at FoS was the Toyota 2GR-FE V6, the AMG M139 4-pot will be released 3 to 6 months after the V6.

Right! It's so strange he's telling us conflicting information, as this man should know what he's talking about. As far as I know nobody has actually confirmed the AMG is the M139, it's just what we all suspect? I.e. it could be M133 as well. What about the Toyota? Are we absolutely sure it's the 2GR-FE?

He's also not the first person to state the I4 will be released before the V6 instead of the other way around. I wonder if perhaps both ways have been planned at some point, they switched it around, and not everybody got informed?

5 hours ago, Likuid said:

Ever since the Evija Lotus has been very vague on performance numbers. Is this some kind of subterfuge or is this them truly not knowing? I find it really hard to believe that with both the Evija and Emira, which have been in development for over 2.5 years, they don't have any performance figures really nailed down?

Yes I know the claimed 2000HP of the Evija, but even in some interviews its eluded to that it may end up with more.

Now I would be shocked if the Emira V6 had 500HP, but I could see it at least being the 416 of the Evora GT or the 430 of the GT430. Its almost like Lotus doesn't want the competition to know the final numbers.

Indeed, it would seem logical to me that somebody at Lotus does really know. The question is, have we heard that person speak at any point? Or perhaps it is subterfuge...

It's all sorts of curious, that's for sure. We've heard the Lotus guy in the FoS video say the car is 416hp, and it seems he's talking about the V6, but there is a version of the AMG M139 that produces exactly that amount of horsepower. Then again, that engine's emission is over 200 g/km as I understand, while it's stated here the AMG will keep to 180, which is an important threshold for carbon-tax countries. Also, someone stated elsewhere the outgoing V6 on the Evora produces 416ps so it being the V6 is not unreasonable either.

500hp does seem like a lot for that V6. But the way he says it in the show is completely confident, yet purposely mysterious: it starts with a 5, and is followed by two other numbers, which I can't tell you *audible wink*. I'm almost wondering at this point if somebody has wrongly interpreted kW numbers as BHP somewhere, or vice versa. (360kW is 480BHP, right what the car's UI goes up to, 416kW is 557BHP, which starts with a 5 and is followed by two other numbers). Also, someone posted the V6 is known to have been tuned at some point before to go over 460...

This guy is normally credible, and he has no reason to lie on a tiny radio show in a tiny country. I guess we'll know come September 7, but it's certainly odd we get all this conflicting information.

Edited July 12, 2021 by JJ

[Evotion]

He didn't lie per se , he just got mixed up in a couple of areas.

I expect the EV sports car to be rapid and the SUV sounds like a great idea.

There is a gap for an EV sports car at half  the Tesla Roadster money, also a direct tesla Roadster rival and probably a £250 - £300 car as Ferrari and Lamborghini will obviously have to build one.

[Greg | ValetPro]

This is interesting.   es motorsport have tuned the v6 to at least 500bhp but i believe they can take it up to 600bhp. Tuning kit from Swindon.  Like the Swindon GTE cars.

 

do we know when Lotus will officially release the spec's.  If the cars do come with the extra power they are talking about it makes sense for there last ICE car.  What ever it ends up being the car is going to be successful.   

 

 

[freefall_junkie]

I can't see any reason why Lotus would release a 400bhp I4 or 500bhp V6 at this stage. For a start Matt Windle stated at Goodwood that the V6 has 416bhp, but also Lotus need to allow some headroom for the inevitable Emira S/Sport/GT4 upgraded models in the future. I reckon 360 for the I4 at the start, 416 for the V6, although after-market tuners like Litchfield will surely leap on the I4 as it should be easy to coax 450+ bhp from it.

[Wake]

I can’t see how the I4 can come first when Lotus don’t even have an Emira with the I4 fitted yet. Which is why the blue car barely moved anywhere. 
 

[Evotion]

17 minutes ago, Wake said:

I can’t see how the I4 can come first when Lotus don’t even have an Emira with the I4 fitted yet. Which is why the blue car barely moved anywhere. 
 

Correct. We already know that the V6 is targeted to come out on April 22nd and the i4 from between 3 and 6 months later.  I think it was meant to be 6 months but given the incredible demand, and the extra shift, this might be nearer than we think.  Certainly, it is a long time for 4-cyl deposit holders to wait and all humans get itchy, impatient and frustrated. They won't want to lose their momentum. Maybe the extra shift will be concentrating on the i4.

[JJ]

Well I agree it's far more likely the actual engines will be 360 for the I4 and 416 for the V6, with the V6 being released first. I'm just reporting what he said on the show

He pointedly did not answer the presenter's question about future upgraded models and pivoted the conversation to options instead.

It does sound to me like they're betting the future of the brand on those electric SUVs (golden cash cows, freely translated) and do the sportscars for brand recognition, a la Porsche. The Emira is going to put their brand back into the public's eye, while it's sales are unlikely to be a deciding factor in their financial future. In a way, they can do whatever crazy thing they want with it, logic need not necessarily be apparent.

@Greg | ValetPro September 7 has been thrown around a bit for hard details, and if not that, surely in Oct/Nov when the car is on the dealer tour and we're expected to finalize our purchases we'll know what's in it

[Evotion]

Given the Uk weather, I am not particularly delighted about taking a rear wheel driven sports car as winter approaches. it will compromise the initial tyre choice.

I , for one, hope they are able to bring it forward to July or so.

[Bibs]

32 minutes ago, Wake said:

Lotus don’t even have an Emira with the I4 fitted yet

They've been testing the I4 Emira's for some time now.

[Evotion]

and... the GT4 race cars - all muled up - for ages too.

[Wake]

1 hour ago, Bibs said:

They've been testing the I4 Emira's for some time now.

I suspect you will probably know more than me! 
 

I was just told at Goodwood that they hadn’t got an I4 fitted yet. That could have just been for that car specifically though.

 

32 minutes ago, Evotion said:

and... the GT4 race cars - all muled up - for ages too.

It’s going to be interesting to see the future development of Emira. I imagine the I4 will remain largely the same power wise and it will be the V6 getting the S versions and what not. 

[JJ]

2 minutes ago, Wake said:

I was just told at Goodwood that they hadn’t got an I4 fitted yet.

Jensen says in his Shmee video that he's driven one though, doesn't he?

[TomE]

They have cars with an i4, just that the blue show car didn’t.

I dropped my Evora in for annual service this morning.  They were just loading a V6 Exige on a transporter going back to its owner after an upgrade to over 500BHP.  I didn’t go into details of what it had involved, but clearly it’s doable.

[Wake]

24 minutes ago, JJ said:

Jensen says in his Shmee video that he's driven one though, doesn't he?

I don’t know, I don’t really watch his content that much. Will go check it out though 

[Evotion]

29 minutes ago, Wake said:

I suspect you will probably know more than me! 
 

I was just told at Goodwood that they hadn’t got an I4 fitted yet. That could have just been for that car specifically though.

 

It’s going to be interesting to see the future development of Emira. I imagine the I4 will remain largely the same power wise and it will be the V6 getting the S versions and what not. 

You might be right with that as their key figure might be the emissions which the i4 excels at.

I might pass at the S and R versions of the V6 but I will hopefully have a chance of getting a GT4 road car IF they do one.

18 minutes ago, TomE said:

They have cars with an i4, just that the blue show car didn’t.

I dropped my Evora in for annual service this morning.  They were just loading a V6 Exige on a transporter going back to its owner after an upgrade to over 500BHP.  I didn’t go into details of what it had involved, but clearly it’s doable.

oooh.   is he on the forum?  It would be good to keep in touch with his 'journey'.    500HP in a an Exige is madness for the road - must be a track car

[Dobbin145]

2 hours ago, Evotion said:

Given the Uk weather, I am not particularly delighted about taking a rear wheel driven sports car as winter approaches. it will compromise the initial tyre choice.

I , for one, hope they are able to bring it forward to July or so.

Having seen what the new traction and stability control system on the Emira can do and from chatting with the Senior Dynamics Engineer at Goodwood, I think many people are going to be surprised at just how competent this car is. Factor in the amount of effort that has gone into developing the new Goodyear tyres I'd say the worse the weather the better to a degree 

[Evotion]

Well, it means putting the Goodyears on probably or find a new solution after purchase, for spirited road driving or damp track days.

To say I am looking forward to tasting the driving dynamics would be an understatement. Will be a good few months away to get a demo.

[freefall_junkie]

My local dealer told me they don't expect to have a demo until April. Apparently there may be a couple of pre-prod cars doing the rounds of dealers in the Autumn for viewing but not driving. That means if you have an early deposit down and want a car by this time next year you will probably have to finalise the order before driving the car - not ideal!

[Evotion]

Yes, there is a nationwide car show-off. 

Surely they will have early demonstrators. It's a lot to ask new-to-the-brand prospects to commit to buying it without driving it.

That is the V6 - I don;t expect an i4 demonstrator until Easter.

Won't stop me. I know it will be good.

[Julian73]

8 hours ago, JJ said:

Right! It's so strange he's telling us conflicting information, as this man should know what he's talking about. As far as I know nobody has actually confirmed the AMG is the M139, it's just what we all suspect? I.e. it could be M133 as well. What about the Toyota? Are we absolutely sure it's the 2GR-FE?

He's also not the first person to state the I4 will be released before the V6 instead of the other way around. I wonder if perhaps both ways have been planned at some point, they switched it around, and not everybody got informed?

Indeed, it would seem logical to me that somebody at Lotus does really know. The question is, have we heard that person speak at any point? Or perhaps it is subterfuge...

It's all sorts of curious, that's for sure. We've heard the Lotus guy in the FoS video say the car is 416hp, and it seems he's talking about the V6, but there is a version of the AMG M139 that produces exactly that amount of horsepower. Then again, that engine's emission is over 200 g/km as I understand, while it's stated here the AMG will keep to 180, which is an important threshold for carbon-tax countries. Also, someone stated elsewhere the outgoing V6 on the Evora produces 416ps so it being the V6 is not unreasonable either.

500hp does seem like a lot for that V6. But the way he says it in the show is completely confident, yet purposely mysterious: it starts with a 5, and is followed by two other numbers, which I can't tell you *audible wink*. I'm almost wondering at this point if somebody has wrongly interpreted kW numbers as BHP somewhere, or vice versa. (360kW is 480BHP, right what the car's UI goes up to, 416kW is 557BHP, which starts with a 5 and is followed by two other numbers). Also, someone posted the V6 is known to have been tuned at some point before to go over 460...

This guy is normally credible, and he has no reason to lie on a tiny radio show in a tiny country. I guess we'll know come September 7, but it's certainly odd we get all this conflicting information.

The M139 block was mentioned in some prior interview (cannot find now).  As to 416 Hp yes coincidentally the higher output of the M139, yet must also be considered that Mercedes has not certified that power level in the USA.  As the to V6 at 416 PS or 416 Hp again in the US we got the Evora GT which started at 430 HP but with 3rd Cat and detune for mountain states gas (down 2 points from true Super) it ended up at 416 Hp (421 PS).  Also was pretty clear in the interview that Matt was talking about the V6 when he said 416.  Time will tell.  I do believe that Lotus is being coy about weight and power pending regulatory sign off.  In US prior to the GT launch we were told it would be the GT430 at 430 Hp, then at order time 422 (i.e. 3rd Cat added back on), and then finally 416 .. one spec for all states.  A larger number of us were pissed at the time, for that and other spec changes.  Similar thing on weights, different standards, EU, DIN, SAE .. in US the weight for certification much include the options selected by 30% of market.  Well this is probably one reason why we are currently being poled by Lotus USA as to what options we plan to order, the other i'm sure is for SCM and production scheduling plans.

[Evotion]

Julian, have you had just the Emira Reveal in the US or are paid orders now being accepted by Lotus?

What is the time line of delivery in the USA?

[TomE]

7 hours ago, Evotion said:

oooh.   is he on the forum?  It would be good to keep in touch with his 'journey'.    500HP in a an Exige is madness for the road - must be a track car

It's road registered but I assume primarily for track use.  There are a few around and Komotec have had it as one of their upgrades for 3-4 years.  Uses the Harrop TVS1900 supercharger.

Info: https://www.komo-tec.com/en/lotus-exige/mk3-toyota-v6350380/power-phases/123/phase-ex500-upgrade-150hp/130nm-exige-s-v6

If you go searching on the V6 Exige forum on here you'll find a few.

Listen to these two taking part in Time Attack in Italy: