V6 Emira

[freefall_junkie]

Well, it been a bit quiet on here recently and we already have a thread on the AMG Emira, so I though it might be good to have one on the V6. Things I am interested in:

- Is it exactly the same 2GR-FE engine as in the Evora, or do Toyota have a later, perhaps lower emissions version of the same engine available?

- Power and torque, obviously, although Matt Windle did say 415hp at Goodwood.

- Will noise regs strangle the exhaust sound, or will it be as good as the Evora 410 and the grey launch car? Perhaps there could be two exhaust options as most other manufacturers seem to make a killing offering a 'sports' exhaust?

- Will it be the same torque-limited Aisin gearbox? A stronger box might open up the possibility of a higher power version.

- Potential lifespan of the V6 Emira. Lots of speculation that the V6 may be dropped in favour of a higher powered i4 Emira two or three years down the line. With the US market's preference for higher displacement engines I'm not sure on this one.

- Edited to add the big one which I forgot - price differential to the i4!

Guesses, informed or otherwise, idle speculation and musings all welcome 🙂

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by freefall_junkie

[Evotion]

It is amazing how much we do not know.

I am really hoping that, as shown in the HP example, Lotus have really played this down.

it will sound awesome, tweaked gearbox and be a true evolution of the Evora in every way.

If the price difference really is 15k to 20K then they will have to justify that with more than just the lure of the V6.

 

[Likuid]

You have to wonder if anything was done with the gear box, either modifying or a different one. Lotus claims the Emira is the car that will bring them more mainstream. A creaky diesel engine gear box from a delivery van isn't really that. People put up with the in the Evora, not sure Joe-Porsche will. If they did modify or replace hopefully it is stronger and allows more potential from the V6 down the road before it leaves the market (or for the after market).

Edited August 6, 2021 by Likuid

[KusaKusa]

The V6 really is in a weird spot as a product. If the base price of the i4 truly converts to $80k USD, then there isn't much upcharge space for the V6 without simply repeating the pricing and marketability issues with the Evora. Maybe the V6 Emira could be cheaper than the Evora since the manufacturing line is more automated, but there's also a lot more tech available and manufacturing costs to amortize. Is there precedent for any car model to sell two different engines for around the same price? Even if it doesn't make much sense for Lotus, that's the only way I could see it being competitive besides leaning heavily on the styling.

Oh and comparing the Emira vs the Evora, would the Emira have to have a new particulate filter on it vs the sound we know on the Evora?

Edited August 6, 2021 by KusaKusa

[IwantOne]

How is reliability and maintenance costs for the v6 and the manual? I've tried looking for this but couldn't really much recent information about it. Only that a clutch change is 10k?

Also how is the manual to live with? What I gather from the Evora reviews is that early cars had long gearing and a heavy clutch but the newer models with the short gear ratios is better and has a lighter clutch. As far as the feel of the shift it seems it depends on the person. Read some thought it was a nice short and direct trow while others found it a bit clunky and unrefined.

 

@KusaKusa Another issue might be the gearbox/engine is a bit weird. Normally the model with the bigger engine has the same or better gearbox options but arguably the Emira is the other way round.

From a marketing pov 6 cylinders is better than 4, but when 80~90% of the target market opts for a auto, having the v6 mated to a old auto box while the "lesser" 4 pot gets a DCT like pretty much any sport'ish car it might be difficult to charge a big premium for the v6. 

Or maybe Lotus sales figures tell them not many people spec'ed a auto on the Evora so they can threat it as a enthusiast model for those wanting a manual and make a nice chunk of extra money on them. I doubt the v6 drivetrain is more expensive than the i4.

[MJON]

Don’t believe you should have any concerns re the V6 engine, it’s a well tried Toyota unit with a great reputation for build quality and reliability. Also think most that go for the V6 will choose the manual box.

[C8RKH]

3 hours ago, IwantOne said:

Only that a clutch change is 10k?

You don't specify the currency but in any currency that sounds like too much. In the UK you are looking at around £2k-2.5k from a reliable independent specialist and around £3.5-£4k for a dealer. The ONLY issue is that it is usually a rear clam off job so whilst the parts are not expensive, the labour can  be 30-40 hours in total - hence the size of the bills.

As for reliability, the V6 is rock solid and I don't see that changing. It is a hugely robust and well made V6 engine with Toyota's legendary reliability.

One thing that is not spoken about as much on here re the V6, especially when being compared to the 4 pack tin of beans, is the driveability of the thing.  I have an Evora 410 Sport, and the low down torque and driveability of the supercharged V6 is just immense. On a winding A road, making fast progress you just leave it in fourth and by jiggers do you rapidly make progress. No drama. No fuss. Just instant torque and response and you keep on it.  Try that in a turbo charged 4 pot, no matter how good you think it is.

The supercharger works so well with the V6, it is just effortlessly smooth.  Sure, if you really want to feel like a race car driver you can drop it down to 3rd, 2nd even in the tighter corners and power your way out. But then, you only need 2nd and 3rd as you're doing a 100 mph+ in 3rd if you use the full rev range and with the response of the engine, the instant torque of the supercharger, and the howl of the exhaust you feel like your in the middle in the LeMans 24 hour and every mile is a mile to savour, and, a risk to license and liberty!  That's the thing with the Evora, especially the 4xx cars, they have more than enough power and torque for UK roads to make them just laugh out loud bonkers as you drive the road and corners, or, a really sublime and effortless GT as you keep the revs around 3-4k in 4th and make rapid progress.

I've thought long and hard about an Emira. It looks great. But it is going to be mass produced and common, so at this point, I think I'm more likely to spend my money on the GT430 Ohlins and a Komotec 460 kit.  I doubt they will make an Emira that will ever reach that level of performance, and I'll have one of the sweetest driving Evora's out there.

As current owner of a Fezza 458, who had an Evora 410 Sport said, whilst the acceleration of the 458 is brutal, it just cannot stay with the 410 Lotus for chassis quality, handling, feedback and involvement and he refers to the 410 as the best kept secret Evora.  I have to admit, I'd love a 458, I really would, but I'd be too scared to use it (every mile kills the resale value) and it wouldn't feel any better than the 410 with its much lower running costs and less of a perceived "snob" factor as "it's only a Lotus".

I think the Emira looks fantastic. I really do hope it is a success. But it's moving Lotus right into the mainstream and whilst that's really good and right for Lotus. I just don't need, nor get excited by, cup holders, RADAR cruise, four hundred and thirty six way electric seats, heated steering wheels and all the other widgets everyone seems to want and be excited about.

So, I'm happy to wait 2-4 years to see what the "ultimate" V6 Emira will be.  I'd have absolutely no qualms or hesitation in having a V6 Emira. No worries re the engine etc.  BUT, If I had 4 pots of beans under the glass hatch, no matter how good, I think I would always think I should have bought the V6.  That nagging doubt would always be there for me.

[Evotion]

1 minute ago, C8RKH said:

the low down torque and driveability of the supercharged V6 is just immense.

This, for me, is a huge factor in a drivers car.

4 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

I have to admit, I'd love a 458, I really would, but I'd be too scared to use it

Yep, the main reason I won't get one. I'd be precious with one.  If I came into some serious money I would get on as well. 

5 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

So, I'm happy to wait 2-4 years to see what the "ultimate" V6 Emira will be.

Absolutely, I have been consistent in saying that nobody should sell a 4xx Exige/Evora for the Emira. Waiting for a few years makes a lot of sense and a weaponised Emira would be something that can shift somebody out of a previous model  (I suspect only a GT4 road version would do this)

 

16 hours ago, KusaKusa said:

would the Emira have to have a new particulate filter on it vs the sound we know on the Evora?

It will have to meet more stringent conditions now and in the near future so this is likely BUT Lotus know how to unlock sound so i suspect the overall result will be great - allowing for perhaps more sound proofing.  If the sound is not  to my ultimate satisfaction then I will be an early buyer of an aftermarket, or premium Lotus, system.

 

21 hours ago, Likuid said:

A creaky diesel engine gear box from a delivery van isn't really that.

Ha, love that.   Lotus have been great so far. There is no real reason to assume they have bolted the same gearbox on without some tinkering. They won't want any weak spots for the car reviewers to pounce on. We are in safe hands  (I hope - cough)