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6 minutes ago, eUKenGB said:

Of course the actual price of the Eletre is still just speculation.

Wonder what they are waiting for - before they tell us.

Bibs thinks we should be surprised....- low or high????

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88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

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Well at the launch, Jaguar told me it was Macan sized on the outside, but Cayenne sized on the inside. They currently have the F-Pace (essentially the same size as I-Pace) to compete against the Cayenne and smaller E-Pace against the Macan. Which rather puts the I-Pace against the forthcoming electric Cayenne.

At the end of the day, unless they're exactly the same size, it's impossible to state absolutely that any 2 cars are equivalent. What I can tell you is that I am an SUV owner, interested in a new electric SUV and the I-Pace and Eletra are absolutely in direct competition for my attention - at the same money.

Yes the 100k could be different currency, but the review I was watching showed it as £s. I'm not saying they are correct, I'm just pointing out why I think £100k would make it over-priced. However if I'm correctly interpreting the hints on here from those 'in the know', it seems like Lotus have not made a huge faux pas. I hope they don't and time will tell.

I don't dispute they want to target Bentley and/or Lamborghini. That would be something to aim at, but you cannot achieve parity immediately just by offering a similarly expensive car. People will for sure pay more for those brands (and probably Porsche) than a Lotus. Currently that's just the way it is. Can Lotus raise their status to those levels? Possibly, but not with their first product on that path. They'll have to build up to it. Those brands have had plenty of practice building up to and maintaining their current level of status.

BTW, there was no hidden agenda in the cars I picked to compare. It was just a few in which I am interested and/or had easy access to the data. I tried to pick the basic spec (hence pricing column headed 'From'), but sometimes hard to get equivalent specs and as I explained, the Eletra specs are probably mixed up between different models. Or will the 600hp version do 0-60 in 2.9 secs? In which case, how will the 1000hp version perform and why not quote that 0-60 time? That has not been made clear. So my list was quick and dirty, for my own benefit to get a handle on how some cars roughly compared and then I thought others may be interested. If not, no worries, I did it for my own benefit. 😀

Edited by eUKenGB
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It's the same for me. The Eletre is not a car for me. But the type 133 could be. So I'm very intrigued how the car will look like and what it will be capable of. Although, I more and more become a fan of battery swapping. CATL announced all the cars with their battery, will be able to swap them, when CATL builds battery swap stations. Do we know already which batteries the lifestyle cars, like Eletre, type 133 will have?

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I think battery swapping is a stop-gap solution. Once range is high enough and charge time is low enough (all on the horizon), the desire to swap batteries will diminish or even go away.

I have not seen any information about the Eletre's battery tech. All I've seen is that it uses an 800v system and a claim that it is the first electric SUV to do so, which is untrue and should piss of Kia/Hyundai who already sell SUVs using exactly that technology, while the Eletre is a whole year off. Unless they claim the Eletre is the first ever 'Hyper SUV', in which case they can claim everything is a first, but it's all just semantic BS.

I'm looking forward to more technical info about the Eletre. Like battery and motor technology etc. Pleased to see it has (or can have) a tow bar as that is of particular interest to me, but no info on its towing capacity etc. Hopefully we won't have to wait a full year before they let us know this sort of stuff about the car.

“You can’t have too many bikes"
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4 minutes ago, eUKenGB said:

Once range is high enough and charge time is low enough (all on the horizon), the desire to swap batteries will diminish or even go away.

Battery swapping is not about recharge time. It's about not caring about battery degredation. It's about getting the newest batterie-tech, even if you have an old car. Also about changing between small batteries for your daily commutes and big ones for roadtrips.

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27 minutes ago, eUKenGB said:

I think battery swapping is a stop-gap solution. Once range is high enough and charge time is low enough (all on the horizon), the desire to swap batteries will diminish or even go away.

I have not seen any information about the Eletre's battery tech. All I've seen is that it uses an 800v system and a claim that it is the first electric SUV to do so, which is untrue and should piss of Kia/Hyundai who already sell SUVs using exactly that technology, while the Eletre is a whole year off. Unless they claim the Eletre is the first ever 'Hyper SUV', in which case they can claim everything is a first, but it's all just semantic BS.

I'm looking forward to more technical info about the Eletre. Like battery and motor technology etc. Pleased to see it has (or can have) a tow bar as that is of particular interest to me, but no info on its towing capacity etc. Hopefully we won't have to wait a full year before they let us know this sort of stuff about the car.

It as been mentioned in numerous videos that a retractable tow bar will be a option, and they have even shown the button in the boot that operates the tow bar in at least one video i have seen.

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100,000GBP is a tad over $175,000 in AUD.

I am not going to say 'won't', but I just can't see myself paying at least that much for a car and $175,000 is being conservative.

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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2 hours ago, Il fenomino said:

Battery swapping is not about recharge time. It's about not caring about battery degredation. It's about getting the newest batterie-tech, even if you have an old car. Also about changing between small batteries for your daily commutes and big ones for roadtrips.

I agree that those are considerations, for the more technically and critically minded. But I can pretty much guarantee that most potential EV users interest in the concept of battery swapping is all about range and re-charge times.

Degradation will also become less of an issue with newer technology. There are already designs for battery types that basically do not degrade (check out QuantumScape), so swapping becomes an irrelevance. Clearly not there yet and so for the immediate future swapping is a viable solution, but as I said, it's a stop-gap until the better battery tech becomes available.

“You can’t have too many bikes"
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1 hour ago, scotty435 said:

It as been mentioned in numerous videos that a retractable tow bar will be a option, and they have even shown the button in the boot that operates the tow bar in at least one video i have seen.

"They" meaning? I don't see any mention of it on Lotus' website. Maybe I missed it, but in any case, yes I have seen it mentioned elsewhere. But my point is that no actual specs for that seem to have been yet released. Actual towing capacity is critical. I know what I want to tow and my X5 does that. A Model X can also easily handle it (also the CyberTruck of course), but the Jaguar I-Pace cannot and the Kia EV6 is marginal. Towing has a bigger impact on an EV, so it's more than simply "it has a tow-bar". The question remains, what can it do with that tow-bar? 

Not criticising Lotus here, just saying I would like to know that level of info about the Eletre and I'm looking forward to it being released - or me finding it on the website. 😀

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19 minutes ago, Nelly said:

…It may be 2 tons, but if its lighter than the competition (and it seems to be ) then surely that's the point?

Found some interesting additional info in Top Gear review.

"Lotus’s claim the Eletre weighs around two tonnes dead"

That puts the weight at 2,032kg which is light for the class and puts it under the Cayenne AND even the Macan. Those are the ICE versions and I'll hazard a guess that their EV versions will be heavier. So +1 to Lotus on that.

TG also point out that the 600hp 'basic' version has 2 motors and can achieve the 0-60 in 2.9 secs figure that is claimed and is impressive. Then there'll be a tri motor version (2 on the back axle, as per Tesla Plaid) which at 300hp each makes it 900hp, which fits in with what we've heard. However that would be even quicker of course, although I doubt it would break the 2 sec. barrier. My guess is the basic one will be available first and the "Ultra SUV" version will arrive slightly later.

There's nothing factual I have seen or heard about the Eletre that I don't like. My one niggling concern is price and I cannot help but wonder when that will be revealed.

“You can’t have too many bikes"
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8 hours ago, eUKenGB said:

Found some interesting additional info in Top Gear review.

"Lotus’s claim the Eletre weighs around two tonnes dead"

That puts the weight at 2,032kg which is light for the class and puts it under the Cayenne AND even the Macan. Those are the ICE versions and I'll hazard a guess that their EV versions will be heavier. So +1 to Lotus on that.

TG also point out that the 600hp 'basic' version has 2 motors and can achieve the 0-60 in 2.9 secs figure that is claimed and is impressive. Then there'll be a tri motor version (2 on the back axle, as per Tesla Plaid) which at 300hp each makes it 900hp, which fits in with what we've heard. However that would be even quicker of course, although I doubt it would break the 2 sec. barrier. My guess is the basic one will be available first and the "Ultra SUV" version will arrive slightly later.

There's nothing factual I have seen or heard about the Eletre that I don't like. My one niggling concern is price and I cannot help but wonder when that will be revealed.

The Tesla Model X weighs around 5200 lbs (~2360 kg) for the same size as the Eletre, and for the same weight as the 2 ton target you get the Tesla Model Y in size (187 inches long vs >200in of the Eletre).  Tesla also uses a full aluminum platform, so Lotus will have to be really clever more than just good materials to meet that weight claim.  Hopefully the Tesla falcon doors add a lot of weight.  I also wouldn't be surprised if there's huge variation in the weight from Eletre base trim to fully loaded.  Air suspension, rear wheel steering, active anti-roll bars, 48V battery, triple electric motors, electric adjusting rear seats, electric adjusting trunk floor, LIDAR (which typically has huge devices required like Waymo vans?), 23 speakers, a ton of glass that will likely be double paned for this class, and huge wheels can add significant weight.  

9 hours ago, Nelly said:

Seen a lot of comments about Lotus betraying their roots, but I would hate to see the company become like Little Chef or Woolworths (sorry very UK references) and be consigned to history because they didn't change with the times.  Wonder how many of those comments come from people who have never owned a Lotus..

I think a good demonstration of the commitment to staying "Lotus" is that the team in Norfolk work separately from Lotus Technology developing lifestyle products.  It seems like it'd be much more efficient to integrate Lotus Norfolk into Lotus Tech and have them all work on both lifestyle vehicles and sports cars instead of duplicating development resources and locations.  But keeping them distinct shows a commitment from Geely to respect Lotus' priorities, culture, and autonomy.  

 

One random thing I wish Eletre had was a taller windshield like the Model X or Lucid Air.  It really makes a difference to the ambiance of the cabin.  

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88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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7 hours ago, KusaKusa said:

The Tesla Model X weighs around 5200 lbs (~2360 kg) for the same size as the Eletre, and for the same weight as the 2 ton target you get the Tesla Model Y in size (187 inches long vs >200in of the Eletre).  Tesla also uses a full aluminum platform, so Lotus will have to be really clever more than just good materials to meet that weight claim.  Hopefully the Tesla falcon doors add a lot of weight.  I also wouldn't be surprised if there's huge variation in the weight from Eletre base trim to fully loaded.  Air suspension, rear wheel steering, active anti-roll bars, 48V battery, triple electric motors, electric adjusting rear seats, electric adjusting trunk floor, LIDAR (which typically has huge devices required like Waymo vans?), 23 speakers, a ton of glass that will likely be double paned for this class, and huge wheels can add significant weight. 

The model X plaid weighs 2556kg. The doors do in fact weigh a lot and also forced the body/chassis to be reinforced fore and aft... Musk said it himself the gullwing doors were a mistake he would not do again. the third engine also adds weight. Tesla controled weight by making option list very limited. The X is already 10 years - old unveiled in 2012 and released in 2015! Tesla was still a very bratty company with a huge chip on their shoulder. It is crazy to think that nobody has really been able to catch up until... now. 

Lotus Technology inherited years of Lotus engineering lightweighting research, has more resources than Tesla had to develop model X at the time, and enjoys 10 years of technology improvements in aluminum stamping - some holes and negative surfaces in the Eletra body would have been deemed impossible to bring to mass market 10 years ago. They have done their homework so much so that they can afford to have robotised screen and Lidar. 

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It does genuinely look innovative, of not my thing. The bigger thing I'd be wary of if I was in the market for an SUV is the truely abysmal 'Lotus customer experience', if I was spending that sort of money I'd want a more comprehensive dealer network, with credible, competent servicing and to be acknowledged as a premium customer. Lotus just don't get that side of things, though it was encouraging to see new faces and less influence by the old lags, who after 20+ years of failing to turn Lotus around, need to go. 

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Wow,

A premium customer what sort of relationship have you with your local dealership/retailer?

The old lags who designed and produced the Elise, Exige, Evora with next to zero budget.

the current senior management team who have had nearly four years to update previous management teams designs; Evija, Emira and Eletre with £1.5billion behind them. The current boss in the hot seat I assume is one of your “old lags” who has returned, the “old lags” are still doing their jobs with a senior management team with big budgets able to do what “the old lags” could only dream of 

I’m surprised that “the old lags” even bothered to produce the cars with that kind of sentiment and it’s probably a good job I’m not being honest about what I call you as it would possibly be my last post on here

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Darryl & Sue

Proud to drive and own since new a true British supercar the Evora GT430

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  • Gold FFM

Never mind being acknowledged as a ”premium” customer - even just being treated as a customer.  One spending £80k and for many the largest single purchase apart from a house.

A large cluster of Emira deposit holders have had only 2 emails from Lotus and no dealer contact in 9 months and broken promises about when next info and contact will happen. Lots of other examples of poor customer experience.

The new direct sales channel needs significant improvement if they want to sell 50,000 per year of a £100k+ premium SUV.

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