Type 132

[Bee]

Really useful comparison to the Eletre, here, as Harry tests a £100,000+ BMW electric SUV, with 523 horses, 300+ range, 105kWH battery etc. The Beemer weighs over 2.6 tonnes, making the Eletre's weight look considerably better! The Beemer hits 60mph in 4.3 seconds, so for similar money the Lotus is going to be considerably quicker and one would hope MUCH better in the handling/driver engagement categories. I thought Harry's sections about the recharging are going to apply to the Eletre, too, though - some crazy recharge times for many customers! Anyhow, a surprisingly comparable product for many potential Eletre customers, I suspect, even though the Eletre is very obviously more of a sporting prospect. The Eletre's confirmed price will be interesting: the Beemer is £94,000 as standard, £115,000 with a few extras (I think the Urus 'starts' at £160,000).

 

 

[NedaSay]

You forgot one key factor, Eletre looks much better.

And based on Harry's comments it appears that in terms of ergonomics Lotus have done their homework. if that ugly thing gets over 350miles of range being 2.6t  and looking like a freaking fridge, a sleek one but a fridge nonethess, I would expect the Eletre, being all carved by air, to do better because it should offer even less wind resistance and if they are to make their target, about half a ton lighter.

Edited April 4, 2022 by NedaSay

[Bibs]

I've spent a lot of time with the IX and even the chaps I was with (you can imagine who they work for) wondered how it was £60k more than my little Kia EV. The stereo is epic, but other than that...

[C8RKH]

On 30/03/2022 at 14:50, eUKenGB said:

Someone poncing around in a flashy 911 (insert any other fancy sports car) is far more concerned with status than the average mother ferrying her kids around and who in all likelihood has no interest in cars or any 'status', whether perceived or not.

Nonsense if you listen to the guys I work with who all bitch and moan about how their wives tell them they must have an XC90/Cayenne/Macan/RR of any type etc JUST to take the spoilt little b'tards to school and pick up some mucky veg from the "trendy" section of Waitrose. With a lot of women, mostly middle aged, middle class mothers, it's all about bloody status.

[Bee]

3 hours ago, NedaSay said:

You forgot one key factor, Eletre looks much better.

 

I know... I was thinking the Eletre's front view might be a bit Marmite but many, but then I saw the iX's whale-about-to-swallow-eleven-tonnes-of-krill grill and gained some clarity! 😂

[NedaSay]

1 hour ago, Bibs said:

I've spent a lot of time with the IX and even the chaps I was with (you can imagine who they work for) wondered how it was £60k more than my little Kia EV. The stereo is epic, but other than that...

Carbon superstructure maybe... Not that it should add 60k to the price but yeah... BMW needs a new design team to try and blend EV and the brand key stylistic traits because sometimes before or after Chris Bangle came and left they lost the plot.

[eUKenGB]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

Nonsense if you listen to the guys I work with who all bitch and moan about how their wives tell them they must have an XC90/Cayenne/Macan/RR of any type etc JUST to take the spoilt little b'tards to school and pick up some mucky veg from the "trendy" section of Waitrose. With a lot of women, mostly middle aged, middle class mothers, it's all about bloody status.

Conversely I've never met ANY woman who had any interest in such things (more's the pity). I guess we move in different circles.

[NedaSay]

Another Eletre competitor will be introduced shortly, Mercedes is about to present the EQS SUV, their E segment flagship SUV. As opposed to all  other MB products using the EQ moniker, this SUV will use a bespoke EV architecture, they are not dropping and EV powerunit in an existing Body, they have built a brand new vehicle architecture. and it shows inside...

 

...and out not that we can see much at the time being, but clearly there's no engine below that very short bonnet

 

EQ SUV S is supposed to be good for 400mi WLTP as is the EQS Saloon. The name is a bit confusing but just like BMW with the I series or Audi with the E-Tron these branding are only going to be a temporary, until the entire range of Mercedes vehicles switch to electric. 

Being an E segment this EQSUV should compete head to head with the BMW iX and de facto will be another option for people who put the Eletre in their short list for Luxo barge with hiking boots.

[thebartman]

45 minutes ago, NedaSay said:

Another Eletre competitor

Did I miss something - who is the competitor?

Was Eletre the fist E-SUV to market?

I thought Eletre was part of Lotus' future and generating (excuse the e-pun) profits for a very much more certain future than it's ever had. Unfortunately, I may actually be wrong.

 

[NedaSay]

I Believe that in Europe, the Eletre is the third E segment ESUV launched, only the BMW iX and Tesla Model X exist in the segment as of now. Many are going to come out in the very near future.

China has a Nio ES8 which is not imported and a bunch of others like the Zeekr 001 which is more of a station wagon crossover.

The Lotus Eletre will compete in the same realm as the these ESUVs and ICE SUVs  Lotus will not have the same goals has Tesla, BMW and Mercedes who will want to sell by the hundreds of thousands but Lotus will still need to find buyers in the tens of  thousands to really get what they want/ need.

There are more ESUV on the more compact D-segment : Tesla Model Y, Jaguar I-Pace, Kia Niro, Hyundai Kona, Volvo XC40 and C40, Mazda MX-30 VW ID4; In the US there's also the Ford Mustang Mach-E the subcompact Chevy Bolt

Edited April 5, 2022 by NedaSay

[eUKenGB]

So let's revisit what is meant by 'D' and 'E' segment vehicles, as I think many are confused.

[NedaSay]

Here is the wikipedia link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_classification

but here you go

A-Segment = minicompact (it's an oxymoron I know) vehicle =   japanese kei cars

B segment = subcompact vehicle = Mini Cooper, Toyota Aygo

C segment = compact vehicle = Honda Civic, Peugeot 308

D-segment = family vehicle = Ford Mondeo, Mercedes C class, BMW 3 series

E-segment = executive class vehicule = Mecedes E-Class and , Audi A6 and

F-segment = luxury vehicle = S-Class A8, Quattroporte

J-segment= SUV and light pick Up trucks in the US.

You will notice that technically all vehicles in the list I put out there should be in  the J segment which was created for SUVs but it has been unceremoniously dropped because in the US car makers don't make cars anymore or at least not seriously....

Ford only manufactures the mustang  in North America, as of this year (focus and Fiestas are imported)  Chrysler only makes the obsolete 300 and Pacifica MPV, Dodge only makes Chargers (aka the cop car), GM produces Volt and Bolt and Cadillac produces the CT something or other,  but  the Ford F150 sales dwarfs all the car I just mentioned combined. So... yeah, they have given up on making cars that are not highriding, it can be an SUV or a truck but no longer a car.
 

[eUKenGB]

That's why I think trying to define the 132 and 134 as E and D class is misleading since those classifications don't actually correspond to size. In terms of how 'luxurious' they are, the Jaguar I-Pace is up there with the current X5 (significantly better than my X5 E53 for example), even if a little smaller externally, but it's not an X3 class car for sure.

It's always hard to categorise cars since there can be infinitely fine differences between them and any one vehicle can easily straddle the middle ground between 2 'segments'. What is it then? Ah, define a new segment. Which just creates more 2 gaps.

Besides which, a car may appear to match 2 segments (e.g. the 'J' class and perhaps 'E'). What is it then. To fully and absolutely categorise all cars within such 'segments' is an impossibility.

[NedaSay]

My neighbours down south tend to segment according to gross vehicle weight.

Over people do it on price.

A DS9  is as 4,93m long, yet it has been benchmarked on the Audi A4 and not the A6 or A8 which are closer in size, price wise it under cuts the Audi as it was intended to.  it just doesn't have that luxury feel an A8 would have despite being about as long. It doesn't have the power either with a 4cyl coming as standard and 4cyl hybrid at the top end.

The I-Pace was benchmarked on the Macan not Cayenne. in terms of size it seats in the middle, in terms of how roomy it is, it beats the Maccan solidly but in terms of price, it is very close to a Macan - where i leave - all the while being an ESUV. it is a Jaguar so it is premium and it has been compared to other premium SUVs but if it has been compared at the very beginning to X5 and Cayenne at the beginning, it was then compared to GLE, iX3 or even XC40 Recharge, because on price they are closerish, and the comparison to them is a lot more favorable. 

And before we know it Eletre gets an award:

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by NedaSay

[eUKenGB]

11 hours ago, NedaSay said:

The I-Pace was benchmarked on the Macan not Cayenne. in terms of size it seats in the middle, in terms of how roomy it is, it beats the Maccan solidly but in terms of price, it is very close to a Macan -

Benchmarked by who? As I said, at the I-Pace launch I attended at Goodwood, it was most definitely not being positioned as a rival to the Macan. Whatever the press may have done since, that is not what I was informed how Jaguar saw it and the base price of the I-Pace is higher than that of the Cayenne, so not sure why you insist on comparing the I-Pace to the cheaper Macan, against which Jaguar have the E-Pace and the (I-Pace sized) F-Pace as an ICE competitor to the Cayenne.

Anyway, as I also said, it's impossible to state any 2 cars are equivalent as there will always be differences, in actuality and perception.

What is clear is that 'segments' aside, the 132 is bigger than the 134. At least that has now been settled. I just hope they don't then make the 134 less powerful, as is often the case with different sized models from the same manufacturer. I never get the logic of that.

Edited April 6, 2022 by eUKenGB

[DarrylV8]

I think the Lotus Customer Call Centre & my local retailer/agent are going to get fed up with me asking when we can actually see/sit and drive an Eletre, cos 1 year till first customer deliveries is a long way off. 

I can remember seeing pictures of the APX - Crossover some 15 years ago and thinking this will be good for taking our grandchildren out.

 

[exeterjeep]

17 minutes ago, DarrylV8 said:

when we can actually see/sit and drive an Eletre,

Surely it can't be more than a few months before a UK roadshow, I'll have to keep asking Hendy when I go in. But actually driving a demo, may be by the end of the year?

[NedaSay]

On 08/01/2022 at 06:56, DarrylV8 said:

Wow @Bibs 2.4T after composite/alloy panels used, I assume the weight is in the chassis/battery compartment? which hopefully the type 132 will use the alloy chassis with front/rear alloy subframes?

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/ix/356945/bmw-ix-m60-super-suv-storms-611bhp

Can we also assume the Type 132 will be smaller than the iX-M60 and therefore less weight with better range/performance?

I just need to stop day dreaming and wait for further teasers/more Lotus information??

Lotus said the car is an alloy body and chassis, there's probably with ultra high strength steel around the battery cell. 

The BMW is also loaded with their carbon core technology, they tried to contain the weight and I think they did at 2.4t versus 2.2.t for an Urus and 2.35t to 2.65t for a Bentayga. 2.6t for a Model X .

Type 132 has a lot of holes and negative surface everywhere,  if Lotus managed to shave weight they probably did by the use of of porosity and negative surface, beside Type 132 is not as tall as the BMW and there's a lot of Carbon fiber front and back which should be lighter than plastic but will prove costly in case of a front impact.

Their goal is to get as close as possible to 2t, but at 2.1 or 2.2t it would still be the lightest in its ESUV class by at least 200kg and it is competitive with ICE SUV  in this class weight wise, even the nearly 50cm shorter I-Pace is 2.2t and the I-Pace is a thing of beauty style wise and if compared with I-Pace 90kWh battery pack, Eletre is 10kWh bigger so yes if they managed to contain the weight. They will have made the lightest ESUV in its class by a mile Should we get an option that remove all lidar camera it will be even lighter. Within the group The Eletre not so distant cousin the Zeekr 001 weighs in at 2.35t.

Now when it comes to visual perception it looks lightweight compared to other SUV and ESUV and in terms of Driving perception well it is still going to be developed by Gavan Kershaw and his colleagues  so for a 2.1m wide and 5.1m long it should still feel nimbleish.

 

And now back to daydreaming...

[ramjet]

What is the rectangle at the top of the front wheel arches?

[mg4lotus]

Something pops out, maybe to do with LIDAR?

 

[ramjet]

Ahh. Hadn't seen that before. Missed it when I first watched it. Looks like an LED?

[Bravo73]

4 hours ago, mg4lotus said:

maybe to do with LIDAR?

Yes, they are LIDAR sensors. Same as on the roof, front and rear. 

[Bibs]

NY Times...

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/21/business/lotus-eletre-suv-electric.html

[Il fenomino]

The more I think about the Eletre, the less I'm interested. With a price around 100.000 pounds, it is way out of my range. Visually, it is too aggressive for me. The holes for the aerodynamics sound nice, but it also takes away space. The frunk could be bigger, without the airtunnels in the front. 

I also think, Lotus doesn't translate their lightness manta very well. Why would they install a central screen that tilts upwards? Who needs that? Why would they implement two charging ports on both sides? Why design a car for 23 inch wheels? The new Polestar 5 seems much more designed with "less is more" in mind. My hopes are on the type 133 now. 

[KusaKusa]

I've watched and read a ton of interviews about the car, and a lot of lightweighting for the Eletre does seem like lip service. They mention the holes on the exterior of the car, but how much weight are you really saving with like the front air channel into the front wheel well? Wouldn't that just be covered up with a thin and light panel anyway? Is not having a full spoiler behind the rear lidar camera REALLY a weight saving measure? If removing the center of the dashboard saves weight, why not just remove all of it instead of just the center? If small improvements matter, then why does absolutely everything have electric motors like the front vents, charge port, rear wing, infotainment screen, etc? 

But I don't know enough to say if something truly saves or removes a good amount of weight, so I guess the numbers will speak for themselves when they come out.