free hit
counters
Type 135 - Lotus Type 135 - The Lotus Forums - Lotus Community Partner #ForTheOwners Jump to content


IGNORED

Type 135


Bibs

Recommended Posts


Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.
  • 2 weeks later...

Yeah, while the Evora sorta lives on in the Emira, the loss of the Elise and Exige is big.  We won't see even EV equivalents to small cars like those for a long while, until we get solid state batteries which will be a generation past the upcoming E-Sports platform with Type 135.  But Lotus characteristics of great handling, small and connected cars, and lightweight can still live on and be differentiated in EVs while utilizing their strengths of linear power, high power density in small packages, massive torque, instant motor responses, and advanced torque vectoring behavior.   And with a Type 135 target weight of the same as Emira, the weight downside doesn't seem to be a huge departure to what's deemed acceptable.  Read articles on test drives of Porsche's Mission R (Cayman-like "midengine" battery EV racecar), and it seems fun behaving/performing cars will still be a thing even with EVs.

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/porsche/mission-r/

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/porsche-mission-r-electric-race-car-concept-first-drive-review/

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Interesting info about Lotus' plans for its E-Sports cars. Looks like a regular RWD and a slightly longer 4WD are on the cards. However of greater interest to me is the slightly taller 2+2 it seems they are also preparing for. So an electric Evora, which is what I always wanted since first discovering the Evora.

However, are all the above intended to be under the 135 umbrella or would that take us to 136 and 137?

Since any of them are apparently 3-5 years away and Toyota will reportedly release an EV with Solid State Batteries this year, I think SSBs would be a distinct possibility for these forthcoming Lotus models.

“You can’t have too many bikes"
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The LEVA based platform accommodates several types of vehicles, but only the 2 seater with the small battery (type 135) is a confirmed vehicle for Lotus. Just because the other configurations are possible doesn't necessarily mean Lotus will build them, because Lotus wanted the platform to be used by other manufacturers like how Alpine currently is doing. 

Solid state batteries were something I was thinking about vs type 135 as well. Is it a waste for Lotus to focus on lightweight EVs without them and with them possibly so close? I think there's a window of opportunity for them in existing battery tech.

To use current liquid electrolyte nickel based batteries as an example, the business case for these batteries was proven in the Tesla Model S back in 2012. Yet even now in 2022, companies are still struggling to scale up supply chains and manufacturing for that technology, and pretty much all vehicles available are passenger SUVs with few to no commerical niche products. Battery costs are still pretty high. Yield for existing batteries is at like 80%. And these growing pains will have to be repeated with SSBs (though only partially because the supply chain is similar and the current factories can be mostly reworked to change to some solid state tech). Like Toyota said their first vehicles with SSBs will be hybrids because they don't have the scale yet for full EVs. 

I suspect most manufacturers will use SSB's better kWh/weight to add more energy (range) for weight about equal to existing EVs rather than reduce weight for the same range. And to truly take advantage of SSBs weight savings, companies would need a new platform. Not only are the batteries themselves lighter, but better volumetric density means fewer structures around the battery are needed, better gravimetric density and better fire safety risk both mean less crash reinforcement around the battery is needed. The scale of SSB manufacturing and sales need to mature before such platforms will be developed, then there's the platform development time, and then there's time to the scale of the platform sales and its usage across products before it becomes well priced. This is especially true for dedicated sports car / "midengine" platforms, which have poor business cars. By the time this all happens, there's plenty of time to enjoy type 135 and maybe even trade it in when the next best thing appears.

Lastly, rather than waiting for the perfect solution, I think type 135 hits performance metrics well enough for me personally. About equal weight to existing ICEs and equal or better HP/lb and HP/cost is light weight enough for me. And at least 250 miles is good enough for me, though I am hesitant that real world range will be much lower when at 80mph US highways. Even if weight or range are improved with SSB vehicles, they're only marginal improvements that don't detract from if type 135 is a good fit for me.

Edited by KusaKusa
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For sure I am very attracted by the idea of the 135, unfortunately however I think my days of very low 2 seaters is over as e.g. the Elise is almost impossible for me to get into and worse to get out - if the roof is in place. My back and neck just don't bend like they used to. The Evora was ok though and its +2 practicality made it a very attractive proposition. My heart yearns for an Emira, but my body says "no way". ☹️

In any case, no more ICE for me, so beautiful as both the Evora and Emira are, neither are an option. However I am very interested in Lotus' EV future.

While an SUV or crossover is also attractive from the point of view of getting in and out, the idea of an electric Evora is still at the top of my list and with the possibility of such a 2+2 based on the new 135 platform, it occurs to me that Lotus must be thinking of producing something like that.

Certainly 'interesting times', but I've never been more undecided.

  • Like 1
“You can’t have too many bikes"
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In addition to what I said above, my lazy Sunday morning brain now remembers that one of the Lotus team stated how they realised they needed to improve ingress and egress and managed to make the Emira as easy as the Evora. Which means the low 2 seaters are more of a possibility for me than something like the Elise. However the taller +2 mentioned, based on a 'skateboard' battery positioning would of course also be higher off the ground and even easier, as I think is mentioned in the video.

It also occurs to me, why would Lotus design such a flexible platform and then not take advantage of that themselves. Instead, just letting other manufacturers reap the benefits. Sure, allow other manufacturers to use/license those platform variants, but I can't help thinking that only makes sense if Lotus themselves are making full use of it.

It also seems to me that a range of cars, from 2 seaters with either just RWD or longer with 4WD, plus a slightly taller (4WD?) 2+2 would be ideally suited to comprise Lotus' range of E-Sports.

So my considered opinion (clearly just speculation though) is that we will see such cars from Lotus as it makes the most sense from the information we have today.

Which of course helps me not at all. 🙄

“You can’t have too many bikes"
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, eUKenGB said:

For sure I am very attracted by the idea of the 135, unfortunately however I think my days of very low 2 seaters is over as e.g. the Elise is almost impossible for me to get into and worse to get out - if the roof is in place. My back and neck just don't bend like they used to. The Evora was ok though and its +2 practicality made it a very attractive proposition. My heart yearns for an Emira, but my body says "no way". ☹️

In any case, no more ICE for me, so beautiful as both the Evora and Emira are, neither are an option. However I am very interested in Lotus' EV future.

While an SUV or crossover is also attractive from the point of view of getting in and out, the idea of an electric Evora is still at the top of my list and with the possibility of such a 2+2 based on the new 135 platform, it occurs to me that Lotus must be thinking of producing something like that.

Certainly 'interesting times', but I've never been more undecided.

So then the Type 134 could be the car for people like you. The small SUV. Probably with dimensions like a Porsche Macan. This way you can get in and out easily as well as sitt comfortably. Probably this is the reason these cars are so popular.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Il fenomino said:

So then the Type 134 could be the car for people like you. The small SUV

I think if the 134 is the 'small' suv then it is of more interest to me, but it looks a long way off. Note there is no thread for 134.(yet). I really hope lotus gets on and gets some cars delivered, there has been an age between the Evija announcement and any upcoming deliveries. The Emira seems at least 5 months away from any  volume deliveries.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yup, that's how patterns work 😄

4 hours ago, exeterjeep said:

…Note there is no thread for 134.(yet). …

I just asked Bibs and he's kindly added a 134 section.

“You can’t have too many bikes"
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
12 minutes ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Finally coming to market?

When I saw the image it struck me that it looks a bit like an esprit - I think it is the angle of the flag  along the side at the back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Definitely inspired by the Esprit - flat windscreen, the roofline, side window/quarter light/flag, centre line, pointy front end. Absolutely. But I don't think the 135 will be an Esprit reboot. The 135 is I think more of an Elise/Exige/Alpine class. The Esprit reboot has to be the big two-seater GT, hopefully Type 136/7, to complement the 4 door sedan, Type 133. And I think that better fits with the Britishvolt timeframe for next gen technology, maybe even dry cells.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to say I don't see the Esprit at all in the 135 design sketch. A couple of similar angles maybe, but apart from that the Esprit was a flat surfaced wedge whereas that 135 sketch is all flowing curves, as KusaKusa mentions above. Far more reminiscent of the Emira in my opinion and that is more reminiscent of the Evora than any other Lotus.

Again though, just my opinion.

Edited by eUKenGB
“You can’t have too many bikes"
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...