New to this Forum and new to Lotus ownership

[BayouBill]

• I've been researching 87 Turbo HC's and found this comment: As confirmed by the accompanying Lotus Certificate of Vehicle Provenance, this Esprit is the eighth of only ten UK-market 1984 Turbos to leave the factory with black paintwork, black decals and gold half-leather upholstery, as per the marque’s famous JPS (John Player Special) colour scheme. 
• My question: Other than purchasing a Lotus Certificate of Vehicle Provenance, is there info available detailing how many 87 Esprit Turbo HC's left the factory with certain options (paint, interior color, etc ...)

[Barrykearley]

http://www.lotusespritworld.com/EHistory/Production_Figures.html
 

there’s this.

[Escape]

If you become a gold member on TLF, you get a discount for the certificate of provenance. 😉

If there's any indication there's something special about the car (colour, special edition, early or late example etc) the cop is well worth it IMHO.

 

[BayouBill]

Barry,

The chart you provided indicates;

                                                                          NA                                   Turbo                               HCPi                                                                                            Total

1987#

78

186

198

462

# = Start of X180 Body Shape (Peter Stevens)

HCPI   – Cars with Turbo and Bosch 'K' Jetronic Fuel Injection (compression ratio was increased hence the HC)

From Lotus
'As for production figures for HC Giugiaro we are looking at a figure of 308 which will also include Bosch injected cars but it is difficult to give an accurate breakdown of how many were non injected. '

Below, is my serial number break down.

I think my friends 87 is an HC car but not sure about Injected. The VIN break down doesn't indicate HC info?

Where can I find the serial number range for 87s, so I can tell if the SN was early or late production.

I would like to know the specific options for a particular SN (HC, HCi, Lift-out roof section, color exterior/interior, etc)

Basically, how many cars were made with my cars options.

[CarBuff]

Since your car market is '50 states' in both Chassis and Engine, I would think it would be fuel injected. (HCi)

 

 

One way to identify Bosch FI is if it has all the black fuel lines towards the front of the engine bay.  Here is our car:

[BayouBill]

Atwell, Thanks for the photo. Other than the exterior are there many differences from my 87 to your 88?

[BayouBill]

The time has come, Wednesday I flew to AZ from Louisiana and checked out the 3 Lotus cars in my friends garage. Just to refresh from the beginning of this post (1987 Turbo Esprit HCi - 1985 Turbo Esprit and a 1970 Europa)

I plan to stay in AZ for a week (attend memorial service for my friend, help his widow around the house with her honey-do list, check out the 3 Lotus vehicles and drive the 1987 1,500 miles back to Louisiana.

My friend was driving the 87 around town so that's why I picked that one for the long road trip.

Today I reviewed the condition of the 87 and on the surface all looks well but after further inspection I found the clutch reservoir almost empty😲 also the engine looks a little greasy/oily (especially underneath)

The 85 looks very clean on top and underneath so now I'm thinking I might drive this one back home. He had the hood off this car and it appeared he was trying to get the air out of the coolant system but his widow said he had it running.

Both vehicles seemed to have lots of new/reconditioned parts (timing belts look fresh. etc)

Tomorrow I plan to start the 87 and 85 cars and see how they run. 

Question: 1) What type of clutch fluid is recommended for the 87? 2) All this said, which one would you take on the road trip?

Pics to follow ...

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by BayouBill

[BayouBill]

Another question: The 87 and 85 Esprit's have 3 keys on their key rings.

1 key fits the ignition - 1 key fits the fuel caps - 1 key fits the doors

I tried all 3 keys in the glove box but they didn't work.

Should one of these 3 keys fit the glove box or is there a 4 key? I find that hard to believe (4 keys?) but stranger things have happened ...

 

[ChrisJ]

My 82 Esprit has 4 keys, the 4th one being for the boot/trunk. Glovebox isn't lockable, Otherwise that would probably be 5.

Try to find out when, time wise, the belts were changed, as that would be one of the things that would guide my decision as to the car to take.

[BayouBill]

Chris, The 85 and 87 glove boxes definitely lock. Both have stock lock sets in the glove box doors. As for as a Locking boot, I cannot find lock sets on either the hood/bonnet or the trunk. 

The belts on both Esprit's look fresh, I'm looking thru his stack of receipts trying to find the dates when he purchased them. The list of parts on these receipts are quite extensive and when I first walked into his garage I saw a new large hydraulic shop press for bushings, etc ...

Details on the 87:

The exterior/interior of the 87 look Great. for it's age, and the exterior doesn't look bad (I'm a little concerned about black on black, don't get me wrong I like black but the big rake on the windshield tells me this car is going to get Hot). A compounding/waxing would make the exterior look Awesome and the interior doesn't look worn, it's soft and fresh looking (even the bolsters look great). The 87 has fuel injection, a removable roof panel with the wind deflector (one of my favorite options as I am 6' 3") I've read a lot of comments about little or no headroom for taller drivers but, for me, I don't find that to be the case, Ingress/egress is simple (not like the Europa) and once I get into the drivers seat my head clears the roof (not much space between my head and the roof but acceptable). I have never driven an Esprit so I was concerned about this possibly being an issue. 

What concerns me about the 87 is all of the oil/grease I see on the engine, especially the undercarriage. Maybe some of the fresh oil I see is from the clutch slave cylinder (the clutch master fluid level is very low). What type/brand clutch fluid is recommended? Dot3, Dot4?

Some reasons I was planning on keeping the 87 (it's newer, it's the last of the G cars, fuel injection, removable roof panel with the wind deflector) but seeing all the oil/grease concerns me. I've owned several British vehicles so I know to expect oil leaks but my friend is OCD about his cars so I'm wondering why this engine is so dirty/oily.

Details on the 85:

The 85 looks like he recently performed a complete engine rebuild as well as bushings and other parts. Mechanically, everything looks fresh, new and clean. Very appealing. The exterior paint looks a little hazy but with a clay bar, compounding, waxing and buffing I think you can bring it back to an acceptable level. Like the 85, the interior looks Great. I like the red exterior with tan interior a truly classic look.

The 85s hood is currently off and there is a gallon jug of water with a hose running from the jug to the coolant tank. Maybe he was trying to purge the air from the coolant system? I know mid-engine cars have an issue with cooling so you need to ensure all of the air is purged from the system. I have the same issue with my Pantera.

Question: What type of antifreeze do the Esprit's use? My research indicates Valvoline Zerex G-05 coolant and distilled water. As far as the correct mixture, some say 50/50 and others say 1 part anti-freeze to 2 parts water, similar to the factory. Your thoughts ...

Details on the 1970 Europa:

Wow, what a Cool car. This vehicle seems to be in good overall condition. Exterior needs clay bar, compounding, waxing and buffing. Interior looks awesome, especially given its age. Even the wood dash looks great. My main concern with the Europa is the cramped interior. Ingress/egress is at best awkward and once I'm inside my head hits the roof. No way I could drive this car. Although it's a very cool car but I will definitely be selling the Europa. Did I say it's a cool car 😏

My plan is to sell the Europa, one of the Esprit's and use the funds to complete my Pantera project.

Which Esprit to keep and which one to sell - I'm at the early stages of this decision as I have yet to hear them run but I'm curious, given the condition details above, what the Lotus community thinks. One may be easier to live with/maintain, One may have a better resale value, etc, etc ... I await your comments/suggestions.

 

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by BayouBill

[ChrisJ]

I think you may have a remote release for the rear boot (mine has a lock). The release for the front boot is a clothes hanger like thing underneath the dash (it's to my right for a RHD car, so probably to your left).

I would probably keep the red car as I'm not a fan of black cars.

Someone else will be able to answer the fluid specs.

[MPx]

You've made the red car sound like its at the tail end of a complete engine rebuild, which means not yet run in.  1500 miles would do that, but at a slow and varied pace its going to be quite a drive and not as much fun as it might otherwise be.  The black car is already showing signs of stress, but is still the one I'd drive home.  If it makes it it will be much more fun, if it doesn't you already know you've got engine work to do...     But in the end I'm with Chris - aim to keep the red and sell the black!  If its been done right, once the red is run in it should be a keeper.

FWIW when I bleed my coolant system I get the back of the car much higher than the front (we have big slopes here, but you could just jack it).  Then take the top off the (metal) expansion tank in the engine bay (not the plastic one in the wing) and run the car for a bit.  It'll burp a few times.  When you've seen enough replace the cap...let it cool again.  Refil the plastic header to the correct level and all should be peachy. 

[BayouBill]

Today I was totally focused on the 87 because I need to see which Esprit I'll be driving on my road trip and since my friend was last driving that car, that's where I should start.

After filling the clutch master I turned the key and it fired up, running slightly rough but running. After it ran for 15 minutes it sounded better so I decided I needed to remove all of the oil/grease from the engine and transaxle so I can determine where the leaks are located. I drove to Carquest and purchased 3 cans of engine degreaser. Next I drove to a DIY car wash. The engine was warmed up so I unloaded my small floor jack and raised the rear of the car and put it on jack stands. Next I sprayed the oily areas on the engine (top and bottom) also sprayed the transaxle and basically any area that was oily.

I let it sit so the degreaser could do it's job then I used the pressurized wand to rinse off the degreaser. After everything looked nice and clean I washed the exterior of the car.

Drove the car back to my friends house and I noticed it was running better (seems like the more it drive it the better it runs)

At this point I'm thinking I'll drive the black 87 back to Louisiana.

I inspected the car once I got it back to the garage and didn't see any oil leaks but I did notice the rear tires were severely worn on the inside edge. Not sure I want to drive 1,500 miles on those tires. I inspected the red 85 and those tires are brand new so I'm thinking I'll put the new tires on the 87.

The sizes are different (not the rims, they are all 15") the tires on the 87 are 195/60 R15 88H(Fronts) and 245/50 R15 100H M&S (Rears).

The tires on the 85 are 208/55 R15 88V M&S (Fronts and P235/60R15 M&S (Rears)

Any issue with me swapping these tires? I'd much rather drive 1,500 miles on new tires.

 

 

 

[Escape]

From the info you've given, I'd definitely drive the '87 back. A little oil leak is no problem, just make sure you have oil (engine and clutch) on board to top up if/when needed. I'd wager the engine is greasier because it has been used more often, it's much easier keeping a garage queen spotless then a daily driver. 😉 Having been used is the best indication it will be reliable.

No problem swapping the tyres, standard size is 235/60R15 on all S3/Turbo Esprits. But it's hard to find suitable tyres in the right size, so owners often have little choice but to go for something a bit different. The 235/60R15 is also taller than 245/50R15, so revs will be lower at speed, an advantage on a long journey.

Standard size at the front is 195/60R15, so correct on the '87. But the ones on the '85 have a higher speed rating, so if they are newer and/or have better thread I'd change those as well.

[ChrisJ]

Proper sizes are

• Front: 195/60 R15 V
• Rear: 235/60 R15 V

The rear 235/60s are no longer commonly available, although you can still get Pirelli P600s, but these are very expensive here. Most people here have gone for 225/60 R15 V

No problem with switching the tyres/wheels - the rims should be the same for both cars. I run my tyre pressures at 21/25 lb/in front/rear, which is as original spec.

If you haven't found it, this is a really helpful website Esprit Tyres Info (lotusespritworld.com) - not just for tyres.

 

 

[jep]

HC Turbo is peak Esprit, I'd keep that one. 

Europa is a terrific car but at its best on twisty roads (aren't all Lotus....). I did plenty of long trips with my various Europa in the 90s on motorways etc....but I'd choose an Esprit or Evora or Exige over that these days. Europa so small and no AC and fixed roof. I hardly ever use AC in UK but on very hot days, it's handy.

Justin

 

[BayouBill]

Another question: The black 87 Turbo HCi does not have (I thought standard) graphics/decals. This car has no decals.

Did some cars come from the factory without decals or did the previous owner possibly remove them or have the car repainted?

I'm also learning about the modifications my friend made to his car. When I was cleaning the car I noticed a small back up camera under the back bumper and on the steering column I see a radar detector as well as a small screen for the backup camera. Sticking out from under the console are 2 mini toggle switches so I presume they control the backup cam and the radar detector. One thing I haven't discovered is why he added a small red LED sticking out of the console face. Maybe that's there to let him know if he has the radar detector on? I haven't turned on the cam or detector but tomorrow I'm attending my friends memorial service so I'll see what I discover. Also, the service is 60 miles away so I'll have a chance to give the car a good shake down cruise.

At the service I'll be representing my friends passion for his Lotus vehicles by wearing this shirt 👍

My journey of learning about Lotus vehicles is just beginning 😏 and I'm looking forward to every minute.

Edited February 19, 2022 by BayouBill

[BayouBill]

P.S. My friend's widow told me (back in the day) his black Lotus was in an episode of Miami Vice 😳 she also said they have that episode on CD but she's still looking for it ...

[ChrisJ]

SJs stock HCi decals - Genuine and own brand , Lotus spare parts and accessories for Lotus Lotus Esprit Turbo (Prior 1988), (sjsportscars.com)

Red led - could be and alarm indicator?

Shirt image not showing

 

[BayouBill]

I did a lookup and it appears this is the stock logo for an 87

The shirt attachment appears on my laptop. Don't know why you can't see it.

I attached it again below ...

Edited February 19, 2022 by BayouBill

[CarBuff]

Bill, I sent you a PM.

[MPx]

10 hours ago, BayouBill said:

Another question: The black 87 Turbo HCi does not have (I thought standard) graphics/decals. This car has no decals.

Did some cars come from the factory without decals or did the previous owner possibly remove them or have the car repainted?

I think the car looks better without the decals but then I would as my car doesn't have them either.  On my Certificate of Vehicle Provenance it tells me that the decals for my car were supplied but not fitted at the request of the first owner.  So it was obviously a choice that some made not to have them. 

The other possibility of course is accident/paint damage and respray and no new decals applied.

[Escape]

I can't see the image of the shirt either. Better fix that, 'cause now you've gotten us all curious. 🙂

I do remember an Esprit in Miami vice, but it was a blue one, not black. Some drugdealer (who else) being chased by the white Testarossa (of course). There is a continuity error in the scene, as the fugitive exits the car from the passenger side when cornered. Quite a feat, climbing over the center console while in a gunfight!

[BayouBill]

OK, I think you should be able to view the T-shit now.

The memorial service for my friend was beautiful. Afterwards I went outside and cried by eyes out ...

 

 

 

 

[BayouBill]

After the service I tried to start the Lotus but it didn't start. Sounded like a weak battery, lucky for me I'm in AZ and it's mountainous so a friend gave me a gentle push down the hill, I had the trans in first gear so I released the clutch and she cranked up instantly and ran great. My friends widow said her husband was having some problem with the battery before he passed.

My early conclusion: There is a parasitic draw while the key is off.

I stopped by Autozone, picked up a battery on/off switch and installed it. I'm charging the battery and I'll check it in the AM.

I don't have time to trace down the issue so every time I stop on the way home I'll have to open the hood and flip the battery switch to off and when I leave I'll have to turn the switch on. PINA but I should make it home.

I removed the roof panel today and installed the wind buffeting attachment(45 degree tilt). Pretty cool and enjoyed the sun warming the cockpit. First time I've used this attachment and during the ride I noticed the attachment had fallen flat so not much buffeting, maybe I'm not holding my mouth right😉 and it rattled.

I know it's probably impossible to find but I would love to buy the removable moon roof panel. If I can't find one I may try to make one out of acrylic. I saw a post discussing this project. 

As I mentioned earlier, this Lotus was featured on an old episode of Miami and my friends widow said towards the end of the episode you can see the rear of the Lotus and this image. I hope to locate this episode.

Back to the oil leak issue, after cleaning the engine/trans I parked the car and checked the garage floor the next day. All I found was a dime sized drop of oil. After investigating there appears to be an overflow tube of some kind directly above where I found the drop. I wonder what this tube is attached to? see pic below.

Last question for the day - Is it ok to put 303 protectant on the bumpers and rear window slats?