Esprit Restoration Costs

[Mysterae]

I've been wanting to do a full on restoration to my Esprit for a few years and the opportunity is getting closer. I'm just wondering what are the likely costs involved? I'm not planning an 'as it left the factory' restoration as technology has moved on and there are certainly improvements to be made, but nothing too outlandish and certainly no £16k interiors either (if only!).

So, what's the likely costs of doing it myself where possible or subbing it out to professionals, in no particular order:

- engine rebuild (it has 103k miles so far and no history of previous rebuild)
- exhaust manifold (the existing pig-iron one looks okay but we know they don't last)
- turbo rebuild
- gearbox refurb
- various coolant and oil coolers either replaced or refurbed
- front & rear brakes upgrade
- front & rear suspension upgrade
- steering rack (possibly adding PAS, don't know)
- new aluminium fuel tanks (RHS already done but in steel)
- a good respray in original pacific blue
- upgraded chargecooler pump but keeping original chargecooler
- interior carpet
- the unforeseen

What do you reckon and have I missed any big ticket items?

[Barrykearley]

Alunox - £1650 plus vat

turbo rebuild - circa £400

gearbox refurb - probably £600 - add another £900 for an LSD that’s a must

suspension - you’ll want bushes all round as well - about £2k

ally tanks x2  - £1600

parts for engine rebuild - depends how far you take it - but expect to burn £2k

radiator - recore to three row - £300

oil coolers - v8 type I’m sure are £695 a side 

 

[Chillidoggy]

Sell it, and buy one that's been refurbished.

You can thank me later.🙂

[C8RKH]

@Mysterae I would in the first instance be talking to our very own "Lotus Rescue" man, @johnpwalsh. An absolute no brainer for me as he is a top bloke, has undertaken several restorations and is in the middle of restoring his own ice blue (my favourite esprit colour) Esprit Turbo and being based near Aberdeen he is practically your next door neighbour!

[Djs44]

11 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Alunox - £1650 plus vat

turbo rebuild - circa £400

gearbox refurb - probably £600 - add another £900 for an LSD that’s a must

suspension - you’ll want bushes all round as well - about £2k

ally tanks x2  - £1600

parts for engine rebuild - depends how far you take it - but expect to burn £2k

radiator - recore to three row - £300

oil coolers - v8 type I’m sure are £695 a side 

 

Don't know if Turbo tanks are different to nat asp but tanks are nearer £700-800 

[Mysterae]

Cheers everyone, the costs are roughly what I thought so no major surprises.

The idea is to do as much work myself as I've enjoyed working on the car just as much as driving it, possibly more. The biggest exception on my list will be painting as I've never painted a car in my life. It's a steep learning curve and expensive to start up.

 

[Djs44]

Painting fibre glass is probably more difficult than steel ....

[drdoom]

Labour costs are quite remarkable in this day and age, and Lotus left much to be desired in the durability of peripheral bits on cars of that era. Headlamp pod pivots being but one good example among numerous others. A few years ago one professional advised that the paint alone required to do my S2 would range around $1600 Cdn, dread to think what that would be in '22. That said, the cost of parts for present day grocery getters has become laughably immense - example oil pump for Korean built hatch circa $1300 dealer cost, whilst cars like ours are ever more desirable in terms of driving joy, with comparatively modest parts costs.

 

[Barrykearley]

Just bought the paint for the vitesse today - £350 just for that alone

[johnpwalsh]

On 24/01/2022 at 21:51, Mysterae said:

I've been wanting to do a full on restoration to my Esprit for a few years and the opportunity is getting closer. I'm just wondering what are the likely costs involved? I'm not planning an 'as it left the factory' restoration as technology has moved on and there are certainly improvements to be made, but nothing too outlandish and certainly no £16k interiors either (if only!).

So, what's the likely costs of doing it myself where possible or subbing it out to professionals, in no particular order:

- engine rebuild (it has 103k miles so far and no history of previous rebuild)
- exhaust manifold (the existing pig-iron one looks okay but we know they don't last)
- turbo rebuild
- gearbox refurb
- various coolant and oil coolers either replaced or refurbed
- front & rear brakes upgrade
- front & rear suspension upgrade
- steering rack (possibly adding PAS, don't know)
- new aluminium fuel tanks (RHS already done but in steel)
- a good respray in original pacific blue
- upgraded chargecooler pump but keeping original chargecooler
- interior carpet
- the unforeseen

What do you reckon and have I missed any big ticket items?

Wow, that some list. Big wallet and deep full pockets. At a real quick guess, you are looking at best part of 18k. 

1/ Quality paint job = 6k

2/ Engine rebuild providing you dont need the full monty.5K

3/Gearbox I recon about 3k

4/ Interior full retrim minimum 4k

5/ Brakes and suspension. 3k.

6/ Cooling system full rebuild. 2k

7/ Charge cooler upgrade/repair, I have no previous on this one.

8/ Alloy fuel tanks. £400.

That's off he top of my head and only a rough guide. I know what my S3 turbo is costing me. And what it's costing to do the 2 S4's I am currently working on.

C8RKH. Cheers Andy.

2 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Just bought the paint for the vitesse today - £350 just for that alone

Thats cheap paint and on a small car. Is that base and lacquer. Then add thinners, filler, production paper, wet and dry, masking tape. etc, Etc.

 

[Barrykearley]

1 hour ago, johnpwalsh said:

Thats cheap paint and on a small car. Is that base and lacquer. Then add thinners, filler,

That’s 2k paint - only paint, thinners, hardener and primer. Nothing else.

[Chillidoggy]

You should also factor in a cost for the 'Easier to do it while it's out' kind of things and other unknowns which will impact on the outcome. By way of an example, if the interior is out, then then the heater matrix/evaporator should at least be checked, the wiper motor/mechanism, and so on. Once the dash is back in you won't want to be taking it out again.

[C8RKH]

16 hours ago, drdoom said:

Lotus left much to be desired in the durability of peripheral bits on cars of that era

They never stopped! You only have to look on the recent Elise/Exige/Evora cars to see the amount of untreated "mild steel" that was used for brackets etc and that rusts away quickly. Anyone with a 5 year old Evora and mudguard brackets for instance will know what I am talking about.

Let's hope with the Emira they have learned a lesson as they go for better quality.

@Chillidoggy- I think you're last piece of advice is the best.  Would it be an idea to have on the forum a Topic something like "Jobs to do when....." and then a sub-topic for "You have removed the dash", "You have the engine out" etc?  That way the wisdom from you guys who have been maintaining and restoring your Esprit's could help people well into the future to save time, money AND produce a much better car with better longevity as the outcome?

[Chillidoggy]

3 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

 

@Chillidoggy- I think you're last piece of advice is the best.  Would it be an idea to have on the forum a Topic something like "Jobs to do when....."

 

Absolutely not. No-one would start a restoration if they knew the real cost.

[tomcattom]

Just look at my project thread to see the kind of unexpected tin of worms I've come to expect from my car every time I start a new task on it 🤦‍♂️

[Chillidoggy]

Indeed, Tom.

My refurb thread is also a long tale of financial outlay and physical pain. I would have been even more stuffed were it not for the advice of people like Dave Lisle, Sparky, Sailorbob and others on here.

[Mysterae]

14 hours ago, johnpwalsh said:

Wow, that some list. Big wallet and deep full pockets. At a real quick guess, you are looking at best part of 18k. 

1/ Quality paint job = 6k

2/ Engine rebuild providing you dont need the full monty.5K

3/Gearbox I recon about 3k

4/ Interior full retrim minimum 4k

5/ Brakes and suspension. 3k.

6/ Cooling system full rebuild. 2k

7/ Charge cooler upgrade/repair, I have no previous on this one.

8/ Alloy fuel tanks. £400.

That's off he top of my head and only a rough guide. I know what my S3 turbo is costing me. And what it's costing to do the 2 S4's I am currently working on.

C8RKH. Cheers Andy.

Thats cheap paint and on a small car. Is that base and lacquer. Then add thinners, filler, production paper, wet and dry, masking tape. etc, Etc.

 

It sure is a big list and expense but the results will be worth it as I'm sure you'll testify. A factory fresh and modernised Esprit for less than £20k sounds good to me (ignoring the initial outlay 20 years ago ). I'm under no illusion that I'll have this complete in less than a year, perhaps not even two as it can't be a full time endeavour, so the cost won't be an all at once outlay.

I've read and watched the many restoration threads and videos and made a record of any issues and the great advice they offer. From the smallest mod (relay switching the door window motors) to the amazing engine rebuilds. I'll share that list once I'm finished if it's of interest to anybody.

[Djs44]

31 minutes ago, Mysterae said:

It sure is a big list and expense but the results will be worth it as I'm sure you'll testify. A factory fresh and modernised Esprit for less than £20k sounds good to me (ignoring the initial outlay 20 years ago ). I'm under no illusion that I'll have this complete in less than a year, perhaps not even two as it can't be a full time endeavour, so the cost won't be an all at once outlay.

I've read and watched the many restoration threads and videos and made a record of any issues and the great advice they offer. From the smallest mod (relay switching the door window motors) to the amazing engine rebuilds. I'll share that list once I'm finished if it's of interest to anybody.

yes , please share 

[johnpwalsh]

Bang on Sir. That's the Mysterae of working in these cracking cars. You never know what you are going to find. 

Tip's.

1/ Keep your mind open to finding issues you never expected, even on the best looking part's.

2/ Dont count on coming in on budget. See one above.

3/ If your project is being done over a period of time. Take photographs of EVERYTHING you dismantle. And I mean Everything.

4/ Dont be shy too ask for assistance as I can guarantee, you will be pulliig your hair out several times.

5/ Take notes, plenty off them. The service books are great. But as I have found, there are many errors and alterations during the production run. No two are the same.

6/ Did I say take loads of photographs. Again. Take loads of photographs.

7/ At least one person will have done what you are about to do now. They have probably found a better, easier way of doing it than the service notes tell you. Just ask.

8/ Any parts you purchase (and there will be many) as soon as they arrive, check them against the originals regardless who they have come from. I have several parts which have to be altered/changed prior to fitting. Prime example is the replacement timber for the bulkhead between driver nd engine. It comes in 3 parts from one of the more common suppliers. But they don't tell you they only supply in 10mm thick, where in fact, the original only has 1 section which is 10mm, the other 2 pieces are from memory 12mm. This only becomes apparent when it comes to fitting. Then you find you have a problem. If like me you have purchased the parts months in advance. Your stuffed and have to live with them. My way round it was to go and purchase marine ply of he correct thickness and ue the ones supplied as templates. Expensive, time consuming PITA. Check as soon as your parts arrive.

I'm at stage 3 (strip, paint, rebuild) and have a long way to go on my 3rd project.

Have fun. Ask questions and enjoy the journey.

 

 

[Mysterae]

Awesome stuff John. I'd love to pop round sometime and bend your ear on a lot of it, your trials and tribulations and of course battle-scars! 

I hear you when you say asking for advice which I'm not shy about. A case in point was when I was watching Slipping Time on youtube when he drained the petrol from his tanks - I've never shouted at my computer so much! Having already replaced a fuel tank I knew how to drain them properly, but that could be like any job without prior knowledge - best ask advice.

 

[tomcattom]

12 hours ago, johnpwalsh said:

Any parts you purchase (and there will be many) as soon as they arrive, check them against the originals regardless who they have come from. I have several parts which have to be altered/changed prior to fitting.

Very much agree with this statement. Never EVER assume the part you order will be the correct part for your car, especially if it's not a genuine Lotus part. I've had at least three occurrences of this in the last month alone where parts have had to go back to suppliers because they simply aren't correct; despite what the supplier says!

In my case I've not been able to modify parts I've received like this to make them work, I've either got lucky and found Lotus still stock the OE part, I've been able to repair the old part myself or I've simply had to bite the bullet and pay someone to repair/remanufacture the part for me.

[johnpwalsh]

On 26/01/2022 at 11:56, tomcattom said:

Just look at my project thread to see the kind of unexpected tin of worms I've come to expect from my car every time I start a new task on it 🤦‍♂️

Yep. Thats the one. Sunroof hinges and brackets. Under dash mounting nuts and bolts, sun visor mounting screws, brackets for holding the instruments in place, bumper brackets, rear quarter window fittings, broken bonnet and tailgate hinge bolts. All and loads more. replacements are all being zinc plated where possible. Big order of various size nuts, bolts, washers, riv nuts, self tappers, parts to be blasted and powder coated. Need I go on.

Lotus, dont you just luv em.

[Jacques]

I agree. There will be lots and lots of small parts you'll want to renew or resurface or similar, once taking it all apart. All sorts of brackets, hoses, cables, finishers, support items and what not.

My personal view on this is, that it adds to the value of the car, thereby stating that it is not a lost amount of money. I generally don't agree with the market value idea, so not being a question of how many are on the market and how many people will pay for one. It's worth what it's worth to you, the owner. And that should be a lot.

Example: my current gearbox project should be, well, just a few little items, looking at the bearings etc, but in reality, it's a new stronger shell, all new bolts inside out, new 1 piece primary axle and new reworked 1' and 2' gears, new bearings and shims etc, A new Quaife atb, another taller 5'th plus fittings for that, new end casing and parts for that, new gearmaster,  a whole variety of very expensive (imported) sticky stuff to smear this and glue that reinfocing brackets, gearstick, cable, brackets, exhaust suspension frame, new better clutch, flywheel, gearbox mounts, special made lighter washers, machined bellhousing, new system of actuation of clutch, special made shift fork for 1/2 and a lot more. What was initially thought of as just a few bits and bobs, are in reality a fairly decent amount of money. But will be for the better, once finished. And while at it, there may be other areas as well, which is the right time to do, so add to that as you go. Hence the wish for new carpets when doing the gearmaster etc.

Then there are the market related potential extra costs, depending on where and how the car was drive and stored. While having deep respect for our UK Esprit driving colleagues, there was at least a time when some Esprit were being used all year round in the UK, making a lot more wear and tear on some cars. That will add more expense, if this is the case. Thinking of for example fan frame, suspension parts, shims, bearings, brakes etc. just to name a few.

Happy days working on the car

Kind regards,

Jacques

[Chillidoggy]

My view is that I won’t get back what I’ve spent on my car when I sell it.

Any work I’ve done is for reliability and my own enjoyment whilst it’s in my ownership. I consider this would also make it more attractive to any potential buyers in the future.

[Jacques]

What I mean is, any example commands a price. Now, a well worked one would commend a higher price. And personally, I wouldn't give mine away.

Because of parts and labour costs, a good one should and will be more expensive.

Kind regards,

Jacques