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Hi all,

I have decided the best way to go is the way Mike's done his, chargecoolers in boot. I have bought these, which look really cool. I have also bought a used boot floor so I didn't damage my old one and may have sourced some air compressor pipes. So half way there on my chargecooling kit then I've started to have second thoughts...

If I do this, it will certainly half the propective buyers out there wouldn't it. Iam also wondering that it may also devalue my V8 even though I'll be making it better. Iam also thinking of the bigger picture as well. If I push more power then it means a new gearbox which will set me back a bit bit Iam still thinking that this will still further devalue my car and limited yet again buyers.

I may just forget the whole idea and leave the car as standard. Until now, any modifications have been 'in keeping' with Lotus program of a my2003 Esprit. I can't see me owning this car for say another 3 years never mind 5 years so Iam thinking that is there any point to me doing this?

Any views from other owners?

I may put the chargecoolers on LEF classifieds if I decide to abort this project.

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It's probaly going to reduce the number of prospectivebuyers, but those that are reasonably well informed will know the limiting factors on the engine power so should view it as an upgrade rather then a modification (if you know the difference I mean).

You will loose boot space, vast though it is (not). Assuming you've got a glass roof , will this still fit in the boot? If not , that could have a negative impact for some prospective buyers, but not all.

You'e using a second boot floor, so, if you sell it in the near future yuo could give buyers the option to either return it to standard after purchase, or you could return it to standard before sale / before advertising it.

What about fitting the coolers below the boot floor, making a glass fibre area either side of the gearbox, in front of the drive shafts (haven't really thought if they would fit, but you get the idea).

Yes, it could put more strain on an alredy highly stressed gearbox, but, it could also reduce your induction gas temperature, and reduce the stress on the engine.

If you go against the idea, I dare say a few of us would be interested in the coolers (or one of), I know I would, so I'm being very careful not to say "don't do it".

Andy

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I personally want to keep the boot space as this makes the car a lot more practical (as pointed out above). I would love intercooling if it didn't use the boot space. An alternative is of course water injection. Takes up less space, weighs less & easier to install. I just wish there was a simple to install kit.

Regards,

Peter.

Hi all,

I have decided the best way to go is the way Mike's done his, chargecoolers in boot. I have bought these, which look really cool. I have also bought a used boot floor so I didn't damage my old one and may have sourced some air compressor pipes. So half way there on my chargecooling kit then I've started to have second thoughts...

If I do this, it will certainly half the propective buyers out there wouldn't it. Iam also wondering that it may also devalue my V8 even though I'll be making it better. Iam also thinking of the bigger picture as well. If I push more power then it means a new gearbox which will set me back a bit bit Iam still thinking that this will still further devalue my car and limited yet again buyers.

I may just forget the whole idea and leave the car as standard. Until now, any modifications have been 'in keeping' with Lotus program of a my2003 Esprit. I can't see me owning this car for say another 3 years never mind 5 years so Iam thinking that is there any point to me doing this?

Any views from other owners?

I may put the chargecoolers on LEF classifieds if I decide to abort this project.

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Hi Dave,

If you

1996 Esprit V8, 1998 Esprit V8 GT, 1999 Esprit S350 #002 (Esprit GT1 replica project), 1996 Esprit V8 GT1 (chassis 114-001), 1992 Lotus Omega (927E), 1999 Esprit V8SE, 1999 Esprit S350 #032, 1995 Esprit S4s, 1999 Esprit V8 GT (ex-5th Gear project), 1999 Esprit V8SE ('02 rear)

1999 S350 #002 Esprit GT1 replica

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Likewise, I fitted 2 liquid intercoolers (my design) and did not butcher my boot floor. I made my own floor (aluminum) and cover it with carpet. In the event that I would like to sell my Esprit, all original parts will be installed and back to original.

If the person is knowleable in intercooling, I don't think you are devaluing your Esprit. There are some purist who might not like the intercooling system or any other item you put in the Esprit.

I think intercooler is better for long life.

Hi all,

I have decided the best way to go is the way Mike's done his, chargecoolers in boot. I have bought these, which look really cool. I have also bought a used boot floor so I didn't damage my old one and may have sourced some air compressor pipes. So half way there on my chargecooling kit then I've started to have second thoughts...

If I do this, it will certainly half the propective buyers out there wouldn't it. Iam also wondering that it may also devalue my V8 even though I'll be making it better. Iam also thinking of the bigger picture as well. If I push more power then it means a new gearbox which will set me back a bit bit Iam still thinking that this will still further devalue my car and limited yet again buyers.

I may just forget the whole idea and leave the car as standard. Until now, any modifications have been 'in keeping' with Lotus program of a my2003 Esprit. I can't see me owning this car for say another 3 years never mind 5 years so Iam thinking that is there any point to me doing this?

Any views from other owners?

I may put the chargecoolers on LEF classifieds if I decide to abort this project.

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Dave,

As you know I'm new to V8 ownership and at the moment I don't understand the need to increase bhp which presumably is your reason for installing the charge coolers.

If you're not keeping the car any length of time then I'd have to question the expense.

If I was just about to buy a V8 then I'd be uneasy about buying one which had been modified like this. I like to keep things as original as possible. Another buyer might be just the opposite.

Think carefully. I'm sure you will.

Graham.

Wing Commander Dibble DFC<br /><br />
North Midlands Esprit Group<br /><br />
NMEG "the formidable squadron"<br /><br />
"probably the most active Esprit group in the world" Andy Betts, Castle Combe May 2007

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Chargecooling is just not about increasing engine outputs.

Lotus chose the best engine configuration to meet the performance, budget and reliability targets that they set themselves. As a result, the engine management is relied upon to combat the very high inlet temperatures, caused by a lack of charge temperature control (no intercooling). This is not very good for the engine or for power outputs. When your inlet temperature is very hot - there is no way that you

1996 Esprit V8, 1998 Esprit V8 GT, 1999 Esprit S350 #002 (Esprit GT1 replica project), 1996 Esprit V8 GT1 (chassis 114-001), 1992 Lotus Omega (927E), 1999 Esprit V8SE, 1999 Esprit S350 #032, 1995 Esprit S4s, 1999 Esprit V8 GT (ex-5th Gear project), 1999 Esprit V8SE ('02 rear)

1999 S350 #002 Esprit GT1 replica

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...When your inlet temperature is very hot - there is no way that you
Edited by G

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to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

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Mike,

Reading Gunters post it sounds like a loss of about 25bhp without the chargecooler.

Is that loss of power across the entire range or just at the top end?

I can only imagine that not fitting the chargecooler at the Factory would have been a budgetary consideration. The knowledge would have been there bearing in mind its fitment on earlier models of Esprit

Graham.

Wing Commander Dibble DFC<br /><br />
North Midlands Esprit Group<br /><br />
NMEG "the formidable squadron"<br /><br />
"probably the most active Esprit group in the world" Andy Betts, Castle Combe May 2007

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sorry Mike for imterruption,

the power diagram shows a "chopped" top end on mine. Looks like the teaths of a saw, but in the other hand the torque figure was a little over 400Nm [and that is in my opinion more important in case of "performance"

*********************************************************************

to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

*********************************************************************

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Mike,

Reading Gunters post it sounds like a loss of about 25bhp without the chargecooler.

Is that loss of power across the entire range or just at the top end?

I can only imagine that not fitting the chargecooler at the Factory would have been a budgetary consideration. The knowledge would have been there bearing in mind its fitment on earlier models of Esprit

Graham.

The reason for fitting the charge cooler on the 4 cylinder cars was for a simple reason, it was the "best" way to get the 265 BHP instead of the 210 they were achieving, I'd guess with the V8 being a larger displacement, they didn't need to use charge coolers, also with more modern turbos the heat transfer would probably have been lower, all meaning the charge coolers weren't necessary to get the 350 HP.

Putting them in would (in all likelyhood) reduce the temperature of the air, and could then allow more boost, allow re-mapping to get mor power etc, but it also adds to the turbo lag, as any increade in the volume of the air ways would. Whether that lag is noticable, I don't know, and even if it is, is that acceptable when traded off against the benefits?

Oh yes, of course cost would have come into the decision, but so would weight, luggage space etc.

Andy

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Hi David,

IMHO everything you add to your V8 that will obviously change the original appearance of your Esprit will decrease its value ... IMHO, of course.

For example:

- charge coolers

- additional gauges and other add-on bits (like boost controllers) in the interiour

- bodywork changes

- and so on ...

What does NOT decrease nor increase the value from my experience and personal point of view are all the (bolt on) upgrades that make already existing part just better. For example:

- K&N-filters (or similar)

- high flow stainless metal cats

- high flow (reflowed) turbos

- better wastegate capsules

- better injectors (like RC injectors or good Bosch)

- stainless exhaust system that looks equal/similar to the original one (for example Lotus-Sport-Exhaust or Larini exhaust)

- Red ECU or S350-ECU

- and so on ...

Cheers

Marcus

Hi all,

I have decided the best way to go is the way Mike's done his, chargecoolers in boot. I have bought these, which look really cool. I have also bought a used boot floor so I didn't damage my old one and may have sourced some air compressor pipes. So half way there on my chargecooling kit then I've started to have second thoughts...

If I do this, it will certainly half the propective buyers out there wouldn't it. Iam also wondering that it may also devalue my V8 even though I'll be making it better. Iam also thinking of the bigger picture as well. If I push more power then it means a new gearbox which will set me back a bit bit Iam still thinking that this will still further devalue my car and limited yet again buyers.

I may just forget the whole idea and leave the car as standard. Until now, any modifications have been 'in keeping' with Lotus program of a my2003 Esprit. I can't see me owning this car for say another 3 years never mind 5 years so Iam thinking that is there any point to me doing this?

Any views from other owners?

I may put the chargecoolers on LEF classifieds if I decide to abort this project.

Edited by Paula&Marcus

Marcus

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The only lag you are going to get is the additional compressor piping (from turbo to chargecooler back to plenum). Even if you turned up the boost, it's a T25 and will still spool up the same. This is why fitting in boot or engine bay is far better then the kit you can buy to fit in wheel arches. Now that's a seriously long plumbing system!

On the other hand, when you look at intercooled cars, the piping is relatively long anyway.

I think the grunt of the V8 in it's pre-turbo state will make it unnoticable if you install a chargecooler.

I've been thinking again about my V8. In 2,3,4 years time, even though I want to upgrade to another car, I still can't see any other car I'd have that I could afford. I'd say my budget would be around

Edited by superdavelotus
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Any comments from the guys with intercooling in regard to lag?

Regards,

Peter.

There is no noticeable increase in lag with the chargecooler set-up that I have. Of course, the length of the inlet path is longer than standard Lotus ducting, but is also vastly better flow wise. If you have ever seen the Lotus compressor ducts (especially the LH duct) you will understand what I mean.

Here are some images of the section of LH duct immediately after the compressor outlet:

DSCF0081.jpg

DSCF0080.jpgDSCF0078.jpg

The duct then has several 90deg bends with further constriction to flow..... they are dreadful! :)

Cheers,

Mike S

1996 Esprit V8, 1998 Esprit V8 GT, 1999 Esprit S350 #002 (Esprit GT1 replica project), 1996 Esprit V8 GT1 (chassis 114-001), 1992 Lotus Omega (927E), 1999 Esprit V8SE, 1999 Esprit S350 #032, 1995 Esprit S4s, 1999 Esprit V8 GT (ex-5th Gear project), 1999 Esprit V8SE ('02 rear)

1999 S350 #002 Esprit GT1 replica

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Mike,

Is that a dent in the back of the LH duct or is this a design feature? I've always thought that the restrictions of the Esprit engine bay lead to both inlet and exhaust manifolds being less than optimum.

Regards,

Peter.

There is no noticeable increase in lag with the chargecooler set-up that I have. Of course, the length of the inlet path is longer than standard Lotus ducting, but is also vastly better flow wise. If you have ever seen the Lotus compressor ducts (especially the LH duct) you will understand what I mean.

Here are some images of the section of LH duct immediately after the compressor outlet:

DSCF0081.jpg

The duct then has several 90deg bends with further constriction to flow..... they are dreadful! :)

Cheers,

Mike S

Edited by peter_england99
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Is that a dent in the back of the LH duct or is this a design feature? I've always thought that the restrictions of the Esprit engine bay lead to both inlet and exhaust manifolds being less than optimum.

It is not a dent, it is the profile of the duct. The problem with the LH duct is that is needs to be routed underneath the exhaust manifold.

When you get these standard parts off, you can see just what a horrible packaging job Lotus had to design around. This is just one particularly horrendous example :)

1996 Esprit V8, 1998 Esprit V8 GT, 1999 Esprit S350 #002 (Esprit GT1 replica project), 1996 Esprit V8 GT1 (chassis 114-001), 1992 Lotus Omega (927E), 1999 Esprit V8SE, 1999 Esprit S350 #032, 1995 Esprit S4s, 1999 Esprit V8 GT (ex-5th Gear project), 1999 Esprit V8SE ('02 rear)

1999 S350 #002 Esprit GT1 replica

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Mike did you chop off the OEM compressor ducts like in the picture and use them or did you use silicone pipe? With silicone, IMO it's too close to the turbos. I was thinking of doing the same as your pics by chopping the OEM ones down.

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Hi Dave,

On the RH side - used the initial (from compressor outlet) part of the duct and welded to new ducting for chargecoolers.

On the LH side - heat wrap protected silicone elbow, mated to new ducting for chargecoolers.

The other part to consider is the throttle elbows. If you are redirecting the path to the throttle bodies, then you should consider replacing them:

CompessorDuctComparison.jpg

NewPlenum.jpg

You will need to consider the IAC inlet position and also the IAT sensor position, as these are found in the RH compressor duct.

Cheers,

Mike S

1996 Esprit V8, 1998 Esprit V8 GT, 1999 Esprit S350 #002 (Esprit GT1 replica project), 1996 Esprit V8 GT1 (chassis 114-001), 1992 Lotus Omega (927E), 1999 Esprit V8SE, 1999 Esprit S350 #032, 1995 Esprit S4s, 1999 Esprit V8 GT (ex-5th Gear project), 1999 Esprit V8SE ('02 rear)

1999 S350 #002 Esprit GT1 replica

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I never did understand the argument that the increase in inlet ducting volume will add significant lag.

If you consider a 3.5l engine @ 4000rpm, assuming volumetric efficienty of 80% running at 1 bar absolute pressure, then it flows:

3.5/2 * 4000 * 0.8 * 1 = 5600 litres air per minute

= 93 litres air per second.

At the minimum, say 2000rpm, 0.3 bar absolute, then it flows:

3.5/2 * 2000 * 0.8 * 0.3 = 840 litres per minute

= 14 litres air per second

And maximum, 7000rpm, 1.75 bar absolute

= 286 l/s

So a bit more 2 inch diameter inlet ducting piping isn't going to make a lot of difference.

The lag is primarily determined by the time it takes for the turbo to spool up, which is dependent on the size or the turbo and the flow of exhaust gas. Since we're not changing the turbo size and the exhaust flow depends on the rpm at which you nail the throttle, neither is affected.

The fact that that the turbo has to fill a bit more 'wasted' volume on the way to the engine cylinders doesn't have a significant effect since that wasted volume is small in comparison to the the engine's intake demands :thumbsup:

Edited by neal

May: DON'T hit it with a hammer!

Clarkson: Why?

May: Cause it's the tool of a pikey.

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Dave,

As you know I'm new to V8 ownership and at the moment I don't understand the need to increase bhp which presumably is your reason for installing the charge coolers.

If you're not keeping the car any length of time then I'd have to question the expense.

If I was just about to buy a V8 then I'd be uneasy about buying one which had been modified like this. I like to keep things as original as possible. Another buyer might be just the opposite.

Think carefully. I'm sure you will.

Graham.

Hi Dave - as you know I've started sniffing around the V8 ads and would agree with Grahams comments about keeping things original. my understanding is that the V8 runs hotter but I'd be asking questions about the PO's driving style and the reasons for selling after such a modification.

I recently saw the R&B mod (the chargecooler hanging by the rear wheel) and wondered what kind of additional weight this would add. Anyone enlighten me? :cheers:

If I had your car I would avoid "major surgery" just to avoid devalueing it.

And why sell it anyway? Red leather! Chicks love it!!! :thumbsup:

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