Ukraine

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

2 hours ago, ramjet said:

Oh wait, it is a ball.

Talking of balls, what is the Australian public’s view of all the Russian and Belarusian tennis players taking part in your Grand Slam?

[ramjet]

Don't know about the public opinion, but mine is they should not be here. I don't care if they outwardly say it's bad. They won't will they, because if they do, Mad Vlad will jail them for sedition.

Reporter: "So what do think about the war in Ukraine?"

Player: "I have no opinion, I'm just here to play tennis."

Me: "Bullshit."

Same way as I do not believe that Djokovic should be here. How can a decision be made that a person is to be banned from entry into a country for three years and then a court overturns that after a year and then there is also a rule at the Open that if you boo him, you will be asked to leave. If you don't, security will remove you.

Next Olympics is going to be interesting.

[bogle]

Michael,

You're spot on with your assessment.  Djokovic doesn't belong there.  When you flippantly turn your back on science and facts in regards to vaccines, it's obvious you don't give a f**k about your fellow players and humans in general.   McEnroe, Connors, Borg, Ashe, King, Agassi, Seles, Serena and Venus Williams and so many more deserved their time in the spotlight.  They are not perfect human individuals by any means, but they wouldn't jeopardize other people to play a sport in which they are so gifted.  Djokovic, even if he admitted to his extremely poor judgment, would have a hard time regaining any type of respect from many in sport and the general population.  Australian courts should have never appealed his case.  He needs to know that what he did was an incredible mistake and atone for his actions.  Escaping accountability is definitely something elite wealthy individuals have mastered.

Perhaps if he wears a shirt while playing every game for the next 5 years which states, "I F**ked Up Big Time".  It might help him restore his fractured reputation.  In fact, change the slogan every game... "I'm Incredibly Stupid", "Science - What's That?" take your pick.

Before you hop on the Djokovic train, know that I almost lost 2 brothers to Covid.  They are still recovering with long haul symptoms.  Medically induced comas are nothing to take lightly while you wait to see if a family member lives or dies.

I hope Djokovic is welcomed with protestors and boos from the stands.  Maybe the Boos will be so loud that they'll call the game altogether.

As for the Mad Vlad players...they should defect and never return to their countries.  Go on all the networks and let them know how they really feel.  I'm just here to play tennis is such a lousy excuse to give.

[Escape]

I'm not into sports, so didn't follow all that happened with Djokovic. But what I remember from the news was that he refused his vaccine (as did many), not the preventive measures. If that's the case, that's a personal choice as it only affects his own health, not possible contamination of others.

Agree on the Russian athletes, either denounce Putin and the current Russian politics and don't return, or accept the consequences and don't participate in international sports.

[bogle]

42 minutes ago, Escape said:

 If that's the case, that's a personal choice as it only affects his own health, not possible contamination of others.

 

For some reason I find it hard to believe that Djokovic would follow preventive measures.  Regardless, carriers which he was/is most likely one, transmit Covid by sneezing, coughing their infectious matter either airborne or on the surfaces and objects they touch (just like any old virus works except this one is much more aggressive and virile).  And that's how my brothers nearly died from a highly infectious virus carried by a host who was either unaware or knowingly carried it.  There are some who have a valid reason for not vaccinating themselves due to Graves disease or other conditions where they would be susceptible to potential dangerous side effects.  I get jabs, shots, needle sticks (whatever you want to call them) several times a year.  My Covid shots/boosters are just another part of the routine and doing my part to stop the spread as it's personal to me.  Just wish the person who's responsible for my brother's ER visits and several months of Physical Therapy treatment would have been a little more on top of the ball.  Oh, the bill for a medically induced coma and subsequent PT trips is roughly about $1.5 million US dollars or 1.23 million pounds.  So it has a large financial impact, too.  It's crippling physically, emotionally (to all family and friends) and financially.  It is something you don't wish on your worst enemy - except Putin.

[Escape]

I'm sorry for your brothers, and everyone else involved. But being vaccinated does not stop you being a carrier...

But we're a bit off topic and no point in reopening a discussion that was already beaten to death.

My apologies if I have offended you, I certainly didn't mean to.

Filip

[bogle]

Off topic yes and a good place to move on as well.  Not offended.  Appreciate your input Filip.

[ramjet]

Just quickly, Djokovic would not have agreed to preventative measures. If I recall correctly, he travelled to another country and participated in some tennis thing, used no preventative measures and was positive at the time.

 I might be wrong, but that is what I seem to recall. I think it was Belarus that he went to. 

[ChrisJ]

Note where this is posted from, and they seem to concede that the state of Ukraine includes Crimea the Donbas region.

[drdoom]

Such an optimist, Chris. I'm afraid it's rather that the entirety of Ukraine is viewed to be Russian, coloured here for the sake of obfuscation. If, on the other hand, you are correct then someone in the Russian diplomatic corps just had an unfortunate fall from a lofty window.

[ramjet]

A good time to remind yourself to only go into buildings on the ground floor and stay there.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

With regards to the above European petrol price map, did the Russian embassy in Sweden also post up a similar map showing the average income and car ownership rate per head of population? It’s all very well selling cheap petrol but if you can’t afford to buy and run a car in the first place…

[exeterjeep]

2 hours ago, ramjet said:

A good time to remind yourself to only go into buildings on the ground floor and stay there.

And especially if they have reinforced basement. As loads of Ukrainians shelter in their basements.

[PaulCP]

So the tanks are going to Ukraine from Germany, the U.S.  and from any other country that want to make the big announcement that they are sending them.

Why on earth do these countries want to make all of these big announcements and then send them sometime later. It gives Putin chance to retaliate, just like he did last night by hitting cities across Ukraine with loads of missiles, and gives him the opportunity to look out for them arriving to try to destroy a few before they can join the action.

Whatever happened to the element of surprise? Just send them and keep quiet.

[Bibs]

War can't be conducted in secret nowadays, for me it changed during the Gulf War with 24 hour front line coverage. 

Also, wasn't Putin running out of missiles in the middle of last year? Are theses Iranian drone strikes as I thought that was his only supplier of arms now?

[Escape]

It's also important the West clearly shows they are still standing with Ukraine, and sending MBTs is good PR. Hard to keep something like that secret these days anyway, so might as well use it as a show of force.

[PaulCP]

Russia have been using plenty of missiles of late, rumoured that N Korea & Iran are supplying him

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Yeah, it’s totally OK for Russia to get long range missiles, drones and other weapons from 3rd Party countries and fire them at Ukraine, but it’s a Nazi war crime if Ukraine dares to do likewise.

[Bibs]

Putin is shafted really. What's his end game? He's not going to win, the West won't allow it and he can't withdraw or it'll be his downfall/ending. There's no way out for him - it's down to his country to end this one way or another now as this is his personal war, not theirs. 

[910Esprit]

I guess a coup would be a good way out for Russia to re-engage with the West, but Putin still has a lot of popular support.   But like you say, I cant see a way out for him

[PaulCP]

Apparently he told his country folk yesterday evening that Ukrainian soldiers are shooting other Ukrainian soldiers in the back as they try to desert to the Russian side 

Will he take the same way out as Adolf?

[bogle]

All good points mentioned previously.  Here are the basic scenarios:

1.  Putin expires (i.e. assignation, cancer or some kind of termination).

2.  A coup in which he likely be jailed or just refer back to number 1.

3.  Ukraine wins by any method available.  The war is nearly a year old and it's nothing to celebrate except for the brave people of Ukraine.   Unfortunately, there is a chance a tactical nuke might be deployed which will start WW III.  Millions will suffer because one man desires for power and control.  

4.  Russia wins - by far the worst case option as he will keep going until he claims back all lands (and more) from days of old.  

I'm pretty sure our intelligence is attempting to find the sources of weapons originating from outside Russia.  If it's by sea, a submarine torpedo can take it out.  By air, surface to air missiles or fighters with sidewinders can easily down a cargo plane.  By ground,  Tomahawk missile from nearby ships.  By train - any combination of resources listed above.  Of course, Iran and North Korea are the most likely candidates for supplying Putin's extra weapons.  I wish it were as easy as destroying these arms before they get to Russia, but how do you do it without starting battles/wars with these countries.   Oh yeah, we'll call it special military operations!

[Escape]

15 hours ago, bogle said:

I'm pretty sure our intelligence is attempting to find the sources of weapons originating from outside Russia.  If it's by sea, a submarine torpedo can take it out.  By air, surface to air missiles or fighters with sidewinders can easily down a cargo plane.  By ground,  Tomahawk missile from nearby ships.  By train - any combination of resources listed above.  Of course, Iran and North Korea are the most likely candidates for supplying Putin's extra weapons.  I wish it were as easy as destroying these arms before they get to Russia, but how do you do it without starting battles/wars with these countries.   Oh yeah, we'll call it special military operations!

I'm sure we could find out which weapons are shipped from where and how they are transported. But I don't think intercepting them is very realistic. Apart from the risk of starting a war with either Russia or one of their allies, depending on the territory of the military intervention (like you describe) to intercept, it will be hard to defend on the international scene because there will be collateral damage. I.e. the ship or train will likely carry other goods and have a (somewhat) innocent crew, a plane can crash on houses etc. The only viable interception would be a covert mission, to take out just the weapons transported.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Yes, we can’t take out supply ships, trains or convoys in 3rd Party or neutral territories. That would legitimise attacks on similar supplies to Ukraine from Western countries. A Russian submarine could easily track and torpedo a freighter loaded with tanks, artillery and ammunition coming from the somewhere like the UK or USA. A Russian cruise missile could blow up a railway bridge in Eastern Europe ahead of an oncoming train full of Leopard 2 tanks for example.

[bogle]

Covert operations as opposed to special military operations.  Amazing the differences between the two and at how the West and Russia apply them.  As this situation drags on Putin will stay heavily guarded and avoid public speaking.  He's not free to go anywhere without enormous security in tow.  The isolation will have an impact on his mental health.  I wonder what his physicians are prescribing to him?  I know I wouldn't sleep well being responsible for sending so many to a certain death.  Plus knowing most of your country hates you and would like to see removed or dead.  Guess KGB training from the early days must help out?