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Yes really feel for the Ukrainians. Completely suckered by the west into getting rid of their nuclear weapons as we’d said we’d help them. Instead we stand and watch and wring our hands and with half assed economic and social measures. I bet  putin is desperately worried about not being in Eurovision. All the more disappointing as we’ve seen this on the news for months and so a tougher economic response could easily have been pre planned. 

frankly, it’s all a waste of time. We’ll roll and forgive Russia and then be back to normal within 2 years so why prolong the inevitable and loss of life. Life for the Ukrainians (Russians now) of course will never be the same.

Green light for the Chinese for Taiwan I guess and if lived in the baltics  then I’d be looking to move out to Western Europe and putin will go for them next, guaranteed.

 

 

 

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Denying access to Swift you would think would be step 1, but the Germans and the Italians don’t agree. 

there are a whole package of measures that could be introduced against Russia, putin and his pals and that should have all been planned out in advance.  

I just don’t think western governments have cared enough to prioritise the planning, too busy with domestic issues.

It’ll take the deaths of many innocent civilians and domestic pressure before anything even remotely effective happens. 

the response of course won’t be a military one as they’ve caught us with our trousers down whilst we enjoy the so called peace dividend. Though I’m sure there’s some government focus group somewhere looking  to whether we support direct military action. That could be an interesting poll, a little different from which colour is best on an Elise !

 

 

 

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I support NATO involvement with US backing.  I just worry about a tactical nuke response.

"I thought it was Lambo" -  Thank you very much and now it's time to educate the Exotic Less.

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The Russians are gonna be in for one hell of a fight. Looks like the Ukrainian folks aren’t willing to just surrender. I’ve no doubt this will become a guerrilla war very soon.  

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It seems China aren't keen on this and are withdrawing some funding for businesses importing from Russia for fear of sanctions themselves. Their economy is clearly more important to them than their neighbours. 

If Kyev keep on holding out, Russia will run out of cash before long for this war, they don't have deep pockets and the sanctions will soon start to really hurt, especially if they are kicked out of SWIFT and struggle to sell their resources externally.

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I believe @Bibs that Ukraine's largest trading partner is China.  They have a clear policy of not interfering in other countries "disputes" - this then allows them to say that other countries need to keep out of their own domestic business.

The Chinese are in a bit of a pickle over this and don't want to be drawn in.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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6 hours ago, C8RKH said:

I do believe we need to be asking strong questions of our leaders as to why Belarus is not also being put under strong sanctions.

I recall that Lukashenko is already one of a handful of sanctioned world leaders.   I also suspect that Belarus hardly does any trade with the outside world.   Also, it would be a shame to punish the civilian population.  

I have also driven from Belarus, via 'The Zone' to Kyiv.   I can see why the Russians did that - the roads are arrow straight and there are no urban areas on the way.   I recall driving for maybe 45 minutes after dark without seeing a single light or any other vehicles.

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11 hours ago, Bibs said:

I have to say I have a huge amount of respect for the bravery and courage of the Ukrainian Army and population. They're really give some back to the invading Russians against huge odds, history will remember them as heroes.

Our news showed an 80 year old grandfather volunteering to fight and his reason was “I am doing this for my grandchildren.”

 If that is true, that is a whole bunch of bravery right there. 

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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23 hours ago, C8RKH said:

We can't put troops on the ground there to fight as that would effectively be a declaration of war on Russia. 

Is that so (honest question)? If one sovereign nation asks for the help of other nations, be it military or otherwise, within its own recognized borders, how does that imply a declaration of war on another country? Strictly looking at it from an international law point of view, not how it could (would) be interpreted by others involved.

It seems to me the best option the West have of actually helping Ukrain is to send in clandestine commandos to join the defenders. They could easily disavow any knowledge and claim those fighting are doing so on their own accord, in response to Zelenskyy's speech.

On another note, I fully agree with the comments above about the bravery of the Ukranian defenders. They show true courage, reminds me of a certain song. Please do not interpret this as me taking things too lightly, I simply love a strong song with a true story behind it and find it very appropriate!

 

I have made many mistakes in my life. Buying a multiple Lotus is not one of them.

 

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@Escape - I'm not sure Putin is very interested in International  law and would interpret any "boots on the ground" by a Nato country as an act of war. However there does seem to be an awful lot of aerial activity all around the borders of Ukraine and I guess this would mostly be intelligence gathering, with the output being provided to the Ukrainian forces.

I hope that the Anon hackers mentioned above play the below video (and others) on Russian TV 

An interesting read

 

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I think that whether there's a piece of paper that says XXXX nation is at war with Russia or not, the sanctioning of that nations troops being put in place to fight against Russia's troops would be a declaration of war. It's very different to a (genuine) peace-keeping mission where it's about stopping two conflicting sides (armies or other) where the peace-keepers are not completely aligned to either side.

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@Escape it's a little more nuanced than that. International law and politics is never straight forward 

IF say, the UK put troops on the ground in say a holding base, in the Ukraine, and then those troops were attacked by the Russians then effectively that would be a declaration of war. It can be served as a notice, or through action...

At that point the UK, as a member of NATO would be under attack and by default (not discussion or agreement) Article 5 (i think but may be wrong) will be actioned which requires ALL NATO members to mobilise to arms to support the UK. At that point, you have effectively started the third European continent war.  It is for that reason we will provide lethal aid, but not troops on the ground. The risk of deployment resulting in an event that triggers war is too great a risk to take.

Hope that makes sense as actually it is less to do with international law and more the terms of the NATO treaty.

As an aside, it would seem that the UK government has been leading the charge re SWIFT and convincing nations to support the ban. Looks like they have just succeeded with getting Germany onboard.

Over 20,000 Ukrainian troops have been armed and trained by the UK, many more by US and others which is why we are seeing such a strong resistance and Russian tanks and armoured cars burning 

However, I understand Putin has only committed a third, 50,000, of the 150,000 troops he has amassed around Ukraine.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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2 hours ago, ChrisJ said:

@Escape - I'm not sure Putin is very interested in International  law and would interpret any "boots on the ground" by a Nato country as an act of war. However there does seem to be an awful lot of aerial activity all around the borders of Ukraine and I guess this would mostly be intelligence gathering, with the output being provided to the Ukrainian forces.

I hope that the Anon hackers mentioned above play the below video (and others) on Russian TV 

An interesting read

 

Great speech. He didn't even mention Putin, bit it seemed absolutely sincere and heartfelt.

The news over here reported that about 200 lives had been lost on the Ukraine side and over 3,500 on the Russian side. I could not believe it when I heard it.

Seems the wrong way around, I would have thought?

I reckon Putin thought this was going to be a cakewalk. He would probably be having a conniption about now.

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

For forum issues, please contact one of us Moderators.

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Is it possible to place a bounty on Putin?  Maybe a Russian Oligarch in his club could send their security team to capture him?  I'm sure there are members in this private boy's club that don't agree with his actions.  

"I thought it was Lambo" -  Thank you very much and now it's time to educate the Exotic Less.

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