Emira 4 Cylinder - AMG M139

[exeterjeep]

10 minutes ago, cobwatch said:

The i4 has huge potential. Renntech released details of a 592hp (600ps), upgrade a while ago. No internal changes to the engine but modifications to the exhaust and turbo.

 

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/renntech-tunes-mercedes-amg-a-45-s-4matic-to-600-ps-140282.html

So may be at some point there could be la limited version Emira I4 GT600 to take the crown of the Evora GT430??. 

[Lockey]

If the base model price will be fixed at £60k + options I think I may Wait a few months. The Base spec is pretty decent. 
Base + heated seats, front parking sensors and a decent paint job can’t be more than £65k surely?

I’m keeping my 410 exige so I can’t go crazy!

[Barrykearley]

2 hours ago, cobwatch said:

The i4 has huge potential. Renntech released details of a 592hp (600ps), upgrade a while ago. No internal changes to the engine but modifications to the exhaust and turbo.

 

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/renntech-tunes-mercedes-amg-a-45-s-4matic-to-600-ps-140282.html

I suspect there will be some cooling challenges in the Emira - but right there is the potential of that engine. Figures beyond fantasy for the v6 arrangement.

[Trevsked]

Have I stumbled on a ricer forum where we are looking at big power figures to be the answer to our dreams? Perhaps Emira has done it’s job and appealed to those that don’t love Lotus core values of being a drivers car, after all, their strap line is “for the drivers”. I can’t see too much of a shadow being cast over the comparatively light GT430 by a heavier 4cyl Emira. Perhaps I’m stuck in the past, not that I mind, it’s quite nice her 😁.

 

Trevor.

[TomE]

5 hours ago, E1M2I3R4A said:

Do the i4 and V6 first editions come with the same options? Wondering why i4 is £12k over base and V6 £11k over base. Or have I just got my sums wrong?

Possibly ADAS on the i4 FE?  Isn't on the V6 FE and was previously said it would be on future variants.  I can't find anything on the Lotus website to confirm either way.  They may have dropped it from the i4 FE due to chip shortages or cost, but I think some of it will be a legislative requirement by the time the i4 is delivered.

[SpyderBite]

That "600hp" Renntech tune is vaporware.  It never came to pass.  And they've had plenty of opportunity since that article in early 2020.

You aren't likely to see 500hp on an Emira that isn't a big crazy tuner car, let alone 600hp.  "Not for long", anyways.  That's about where the limits are for the reliable A45S tunes, and the A45S has something that the Emira will NEVER have.  A structurally better ability to cool the engine/engine bay.  The mid-engine config of the Emira will be the limiting factor.

If I haven't thrown enough cold water on the fire, then let me add that the Merc ECU is an "open book" for tuners.  Lotus deliberately locks its ECU's up tight now and has confirmed to me that the plan will not change in that regard because they *do not want* anyone mucking with their programming and particularly given someone could attempt to do so while under warranty.  Had that piece of info delivered within minutes of when I was told the engine would be de-tuned to 360hp (last year, when 380 - 400hp seemed like it was a real possibility).  I still remember reflexively swearing at the time...

Doesn't mean you won't be able to tune the Emira I4 up nicely.  But it means you're going to have to spend a lot more money to do so and realize that if your car is under warranty, you aren't going to be able to hide the sort of work involved and Lotus is keen to cancel everyone's warranty that attempts modification.

Guess I used a firehose on that campfire rather than a bucket.  Sorry.

Edited March 17, 2022 by SpyderBite

[Denno]

Understand what you are saying in reference to tuning but you can bet your bottom dollar that Lotus will suddenly unleash a 400+ Version with no doubt little effort and a hefty price increase. This all about the marketing and leaving plenty of head room to bring out a faster version. If everyone at Lotus that was quizzed said it was easy to tune they would be potentially cutting off their nose for when they release future versions.

[Speedluvver]

Litchfield will have something, they have 2 cars on order... but it won't be cheap...

[marcfair]

Rumours has it the base spec configuration will be live early April 👍

[Bibs]

On the 8th.

[simonb]

so easy to pay second deposit on i4LE and then wind back to poverty spec if the packs / colours work (assuming they will soon be calling deposit holders)

[TdM]

20 hours ago, Mctaff said:

I imagine the manual V6 has got to be slower than the auto, and no figures are formally published yet... do you think we'll see a V6 auto that's a little faster than the i4, and the manual similar or a little slower?

Not unless they are going to put out a DCT v6 I suspect (or give it more power). As I understand it, the V6 is having the same gearbox options as the Evora (tweaked I'm sure).

The DCT difference is definitely worth a fair chunk of time weight figures are probably relatively similar 0.3-0.5s difference I guess DCT vs manual. The launch is probably slightly better on the DCT as well. I would want to drive both to feel the difference rather than the numbers. I suspect the turbo will make it feel pretty rapid no matter drag strip times.

[Mctaff]

Oh, the standard auto is as slow as a manual change?! What’s the point then? I don’t like autos much anyway but a slow one would just be annoying!

[Matt W]

On 16/03/2022 at 16:01, 390ja said:

I had a feeling the i4 might be close on performance since I heard the subframe was steel on the v6 and ally on the i4. Didn’t think it would turn out like that though.

There are going to be some very  serious i4’s when people, (or lotus..) tinker with them.

The only performance published it the 60 time which is 0.1 quicker, but it’s on a DCT so it will be quicker to 60, the shift is faster. There’s more to it than the 60 time.

[390ja]

I totally agree there’s more to it than the 0-60. But the top speed is within a few mph too, the i4 is also lighter, so it stands to reason it might be more nimble.

I’m not fanboying either model, just curious to see how it’s panning out and do feel the i4 has a few tricks up it’s sleeve yet to come. 
I’m a big fan of manual cars but also enjoy snapping through the gears on a dual clutch box.
I’m still very undecided which emira I’ll be settling on, if at all..

[C8RKH]

38 minutes ago, Mctaff said:

Oh, the standard auto is as slow as a manual change?! What’s the point then? I don’t like autos much anyway but a slow one would just be annoying!

The standard auto on the Evora, which will I assume be the same box on the Emira, possibly further tuned (they used the same auto on launch Evora 12 years ago and have tuned down the shift time dramatically since), is significantly quicker than a manual change already.

[Mctaff]

21 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

The standard auto on the Evora, which will I assume be the same box on the Emira, possibly further tuned (they used the same auto on launch Evora 12 years ago and have tuned down the shift time dramatically since), is significantly quicker than a manual change already.

ok, so I'm thinking the 4.3 to 60 figure is for the v6 manual - most will be manuals, so I assume that is the figure they will have released - hence a v6 auto will be quicker than the i4, if you were so inclined.

it sounds like there are lots of future tuning opportunities for the i4... can the manual handle more power if someone chose to tune the v6?

 

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Mctaff

[C8RKH]

The V6 manual box is capable of more yes, 500bhp is absolute max I believe without internal upgrades, the real issue with the IPS box on the V6 is, iirc, it is torque limited. Plenty of information on here for you to research to find out the facts.

[SpyderBite]

4 hours ago, 390ja said:

I totally agree there’s more to it than the 0-60. But the top speed is within a few mph too, the i4 is also lighter, so it stands to reason it might be more nimble.

I’m not fanboying either model, just curious to see how it’s panning out and do feel the i4 has a few tricks up it’s sleeve yet to come. 
I’m a big fan of manual cars but also enjoy snapping through the gears on a dual clutch box.
I’m still very undecided which emira I’ll be settling on, if at all..

The I4 is slightly more nimble.  it's just a touch lighter, but where the weight is located also helps it as does the aluminum rear subframe with a revised suspension mounting point in place of the steel V6 subframe.

Both the V6 and I4 configs will have more tricks up their sleeves, for sure.  There will be lighter weight versions with carbon fiber bits, and yes Lotus has chosen to keep the power down a little now for both models, to help preserve margin for improved versions later.

But, and I think this may be more where you were leading, the I4 setup absolutely has far more performance potential and does not have any Achilles Heels holding power back unlike the V6 (transmissions...).  Lotus will wait until the V6 is discontinued in a few years due to emissions, and then they can take the I4 as far as they want to go without consideration for the V6.  Though I have my doubts about Lotus taking the I4 any further than say 416-430hp max.  Keep in mind that this is a lower-revving, midrange-power engine and HP is a function of RPM.  Better to look at how much torque the I4 setup will be making across its powerband, and on a 420hp peak M139, it'll be putting out a ton of torque.

For anyone with patience who doesn't feel the need to start Emira ownership ASAP, there is no question that the longer you wait, the better the Emira will get.  If you're keen on a manual transmission, then you've got a few years until the V6 "GT"/"Final Edition" gets into sight.  So maybe not "all that long" in the scheme of things.

If, however, you want the ultimate performance Emira.. That'll be based on an I4 with DCT, and you've got a lot of years to go until that "Final edition" arrives.  Latter part of this decade.  It's up to you to decide how good is "good enough" to get started.  The only truly precious resource in this world is time.

With every driving year precious to me, I'll be purchasing a V6 FE quickly so I can start to enjoy it, even though it won't be anywhere near my ideal spec or desired performance level.  Later, I will move to the I4.  Keep in mind I'm in the U.S. and the I4's are more delayed here, too.  At this point they aren't really starting to hit until CY 2024.  Lotus wants to front-load V6 manuals to the US given the very lopsided demand we have for them combined with tightening emissions requirements that are approaching.

In any case, with regards to performance Lotus had to detune the I4 to even less power than the most baseline Mercedes M139 spec out there (382hp, 354lb ft of torque), just to keep performance at parity with the V6 that Lotus has positioned as its more expensive, Premium model.  When the V6 is gone and the late-cycle "track focused" I4's really hit, the final tricks up its sleeve will all be laid out on the table.

Edited March 18, 2022 by SpyderBite

[CocoPops]

On 16/03/2022 at 20:20, Denno said:

Really need to see the options price list on the base car to see what I’d realistically be paying for what I’d actually want to spec! I’d estimate  it would be under £70k but would be nice to be able to make an informed decision. Lotus seem very reluctant to give us all the information we should have by now to make the choice.

That's my feeling too.

It's an every day car for me, so I'd forgo the forged wheels for the cast etc. So I want to know the option list before locking in an i4 FE.

[TBD]

On 16/03/2022 at 21:21, cobwatch said:

The i4 has huge potential. Renntech released details of a 592hp (600ps), upgrade a while ago. No internal changes to the engine but modifications to the exhaust and turbo.

 

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/renntech-tunes-mercedes-amg-a-45-s-4matic-to-600-ps-140282.html

All a question of how much lag you want in a sports car. Bit of a miss if the turbo kicks in too hard mid corner.

[390ja]

12 hours ago, TBD said:

All a question of how much lag you want in a sports car. Bit of a miss if the turbo kicks in too hard mid corner.

I hear that, my other car is a chipped 944 turbo. The throttle is an on/off switch, with a 5 second delay thrown in for good measure..

[Bibs]

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/mercedes-amg-m139-four-cylinder-416-hp/

AMG's engineers didn't stop there. They gave the M139 a highly efficient (and expensive) dual ball-bearing, twin-scroll turbo. This has the effect of increasing turbo responsiveness and eliminating the laggy feel that you'd typically expect in such a heavily turbocharged engine.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Manufacturers have been banging on about eliminating lag with every new generation of turbocharged car since the early 1980s. I’ve had models from the early 80s, late 80s, early 90s, late 90s, right up to the present day. In all cases, you just need to avoid bogging down the revs to ensure rapid progress.

[Barrykearley]

What everyone seems to be forgetting is the i4 is an auto. A decently programmed ECU will ensure that turbo keeps spooling and its in the correct gear to ensure its always going nicely. 
Bogging down has always been an issue for turbo cars when folks are scared of using the revs and are in the wrong gear.