talk me out of a used Maclaren 570 (or even an Alpine 110)

[Beady]

I am still in line for a FE V6 delivery July 22.

My original plan was an i4, non LE with a few options so was expecting say £65-66k.

I have had 3 Evoras so i know the V6 well - for 'much loved' read 'old tech'

I have stuck with the V6 to date knowing that I can switch before final commitment or stick with the V6 if i felt that was right.

However i would really like to see the colours in the flesh (Verdant) before finally committing, but i dont need to drive it as i am 100% confident there is no risk there

However man maths has been itching away for some time now and £65k up to virtually £80k (once OTR+ tax is added) is a hefty jump for what is essentially the same car

So man maths says, a 2016 Maclaren 570 can be had (main dealer with 1 yr warranty) for just £12-15k more (would go outside a main dealer warranty)

Or an Alpine 110 can be had on a 20/21 plate for around £50k

 

So I am seriously thinking:

plan B - life's too short so fk it get a Macca

Plan C - given the state of the world right now, be cautious, get an Alpine and then get an Emira in 18 months time.

I am going to take both for a test drive - one today, the other Monday.

The real purpose of the Alpine is to see how i feel about a the DC flappy paddle box - if i hate it then that will almost certainly help me stick with the V6 Emira anyway,  but if i like it then options B or C become feasible.

 

my mileage is circa 3k p/a if that impacts thought process.

interested to hear opinions or if anyone else is having similar alternative thoughts

 

[simonb]

firstly maclaren make baby chairs, mclaren make cars

other than that Mclaren looks the itch to scratch, depending on cost of ownership.  What is it worth after 12 months without the warranty (they seem to drop £10k bills for fun)

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Never been in a McLaren, but can appreciate the attraction. However, you are comparing a significantly more expensive 6 year-old car with a 1 year warranty and potential for massive bills to a brand new car with a 3 year warranty. For the sake of 3000 miles per year I would personally take the new car option and enjoy the peace of mind. You’ll still have an attractive very low miler as the years go by, so shouldn’t lose a great deal of money.

[C8RKH]

4 minutes ago, simonb said:

(they seem to drop £10k bills for fun)

Really?  Is this a regurgitation of the lots of the trouble usually serious bollocks us Lotus owners have had to suffer for years?

It's certainly not what I am hearing from people I know who have and drive McLarens. Not saying they are 100% reliable, but being a hand-built sports car, like Lotus, they have their foibles.

An early 540/570 will, like an early Evora, be at the bottom of the depreciation curve now, so apart from the actual outlay to purchase the car, plus the fee for the warranty (that would be sensible to have as an insurance policy given a new engine is c£35k and a new gearbox c£24k), I believe the depreciation will be negligible really.

@Beady - JFDI would be my advice. You can always pick up an Emira in a few years if you still want one, though I suspect after the baby buggy you'll not want to go to an Emira.

[jep]

McLaren are a fabulous drive. The steering and chassis are supreme, particularly the adjustable suspension on 12c/650/720. 

McLaren are a different ownership experience to Lotus and Alpine, particularly Alpine which is effectively a mainstream product from a large manufacturer, albeit a rare car but you would be very unfortunate to experience any reliability issues (minor niggles at worse). Evora likewise really does not have significant maintenance issues. A few problems for sure but for a bespoke sports car, pretty good. Emira I suspect the same, though it looks heavy on paper so it will be interesting to see how Lotus lose the bulk at the steering wheel.

McLaren are still learning how to build cars from a standing start in 2010. They do have issues, regularly, though 3,000 miles pa you may not experience so many, if any. The warranty is a bargain at £5k pa, so that tells you something and I wouldn't entertain owning one without a warranty. You have to be really 'invested' emotionally in the marque to enjoy the ownership experience, so you can readily forgive the various issues that are almost inevitable. If your driving priorities are steering, supple suspension, nibbleness, power and ease of use (parking excepted, doors can be an issue), there is nothing like a McLaren.

The bargain is 12c. Still available with McLaren warranty and the adjustable suspension is brilliant. Turbo lag adds to the drama. Get 2 year McLaren warranty in the deal if you buy a McLaren. 

Remember, the McLaren new was a very different price-point, so although the man-maths is suggesting it is in some way comparable to Alpine and Lotus, the reality is that it isn't. The 570 price new is also an illusion, as it effectively was subsided by the development costs of 12c. 570 as a brand new from scratch model would have to have retailed at £170k+. 

And don't forget, if you thrash a twin turbo McLaren, you're in single digit MPG. I did a tank in 80 minutes on the autobahn and the tank ain't small.

Conclusion: McLaren for the ultimate driving satisfaction. Lotus, Alpine for as close as you can get but with a significant reduction in wallet anxiety. 

Justin 

 

[Timbo999]

Interesting fact about Maclaren (as opposed to Mclaren) its named after the chap who designed the self centering jockey wheel on the nose of the Spitfire (plane not sports car...) and is still evident on the front of their baby buggies to this day.

Worth noting that you can get a spanking new Alpine for (just!!) under £50k and Martin's in Winchester have new cars in stock or in the pipeline.

I've driven an Alpine on track and its lovely and probably even better on the road. One thing that I guarantee will annoy you is that the paddles are fixed but are too small/short so changing gear in anything other than straight ahead means taking your hand off the wheel and scrabbling for the paddle.

I'd still have an Emira though...

Edited March 18 by Timbo999

[mneil]

Well I bought my Alpine and picked it up 1st Dec, on the 4th Dec I took it to Spires to have the Life springs, geometry tune courtesy of David Pool and the latest remap.

It's amazing!!!!!!! The closest thing to my Elise R in agility and handling but way ahead performance wise.

After the Elise I had a launch model Evora; so much more grown up but got fed up of repairing the dreadful interior build quality.

After the Evora I had a 981 Boxster S which I kept for 6 years and spent a fortune on performance upgrades.

I saw the Emira after the launch and paid my first deposit at the end of July. Lack of communication, accurate information and general lack of professionalism from lotus had me cancel the order, plus I was not waiting till possibly 2023 delivery: Life is too short!

I saw my first A110 whilst going to the view the Emira at Solihull, it was parked uu in their car park with the owner inside.  After having a chat with the owner I went home and did some research; Gordon Murray has one as his daily🤔 nuff said!!

Go and try one, but then go and try the "Life tuned version" YOU WON'T BE DISAPPOINTED!

If you live in the midlands area you are welcome to have a ride in mine.

[DJW]

Had one of the first Premier Edition A110 when they came out. Great to drive in the B roads, extremely rapid and gearbox was fine.  Ultimately I didn’t gel with the looks so moved it on. At the time I remember saying an A110 with Lotus looks would be my ideal car.  
 

(tried to insert link to thread on this forum but it’s not working.  I’ll mention OP in said thread instead. )
 

Re McLaren I did my research after selling my AMG GT via Alistair Bols ( probably largest indie used mclaren seller) .  Great guy to deal with asked frankly if I was to buy a used 570S and keep for 12 months, what would it honestly cost to own taking into account SOR fees renew warranty etc to sale.  His advice was £20k would be realistic cost .

Hope that helps. 

Edited March 18 by DJW

[Simon Bateman]

A mate of mine is on his second 720s.....amazing cars.

Both cars were/are not without issues, although I think the 570s model does seem to be more reliable.

Personally I wouldn't run one without at least a Thorney warranty and I'd want to make sure that any car I was interested in, was free from corrosion around the doors etc, as both his cars have suffered with that and have required warranty work as a result.

They are proper supercars and actually good value by comparison to a 488 or Huracan, so go for it, but with the usual buyers caution.

[Beady]

2 hours ago, DJW said:

His advice was £20k would be realistic cost .

that was my expectation - annual Macca warranty is £3.5k + service £1-1.5k +main dealer mark up the day you buy it which i am guessing is £10-15k then annual depreciation. Of course the dealer mark up is one time hit so if the ongoing depreciation is low then over say 2 or 3 years the annual average will reduce.

But a big increase on Alpine or Emira for sure. 

[Wake]

I test drove an Alpine and absolutely loved it. I would have one now, but there was a mix up at the dealership and the one I was supposed to buy had been sold to a walk-in that morning. 
 

I then swung by Lotus Silverstone and loved the noise from the Evora 400, I then decided to wait for the Emira. Although in retrospect I wish I would have bought the Alpine and then sold it when the Emira arrived. 

[Barrykearley]

10 hours ago, Beady said:

plan B - life's too short so fk it get a Macca

An absolute no brainer - go for it and post up some car porn.

[DJW]

Main concern I would have buying a used car now, is the the amount they have risen in last 18 months. When that corrects that’s a big hit of additional depreciation. 

[jep]

That's not really affected McLaren prices, certainly not in the way it has affected shopping cars some of which are up by 40%+.

It has perhaps stabilised McLaren prices especially with the Artura delayed but I don't see any significant rise in McLaren prices.

Alpine residuals have long been strong, mainly as so few sold new. I've seen cars below £45k this year which was not likely in 2021. 

Justin

 

[Beady]

A110 prices seem to be starting to soften a little just now. 18 plate launch versions still £45+ but 20/21 plate with good spec only £51/52 

I do think Mclaren prices have increased in the last 18 mths in UK. I wasn't tracking pre-covid so hard to know but reading various forums I suspect £5-10k.

I cant see any used car prices falling off a cliff anytime soon but a gradual reset more likely.

Drove the 570 yesterday and it is awesome; certainly has that Lotus feel to it (great handling but niggling thought that something might just break or fall of at anytime), only much faster.

Also lots of threads about Mclaren aluminium panels / paint corrosion - all dealt with under warranty but the paint warranty now probably expired in my price bracket. Hard to gauge if this is a minor issue or they will all have it eventually.

A110 test Monday.

 

[jep]

Body warranty: check with Damien at Bell and Colvill service, he'll know and is very helpful. My 10 year old 12c is having new wings under body warranty at McLaren Birmingham. The corrosion was so insignificant, I didn't even see it. 

Justin 

 

[Matt W]

On 18/03/2022 at 09:51, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Never been in a McLaren, but can appreciate the attraction. However, you are comparing a significantly more expensive 6 year-old car with a 1 year warranty and potential for massive bills to a brand new car with a 3 year warranty. For the sake of 3000 miles per year I would personally take the new car option and enjoy the peace of mind. You’ll still have an attractive very low miler as the years go by, so shouldn’t lose a great deal of money.

"Peace of mind", with a Lotus ...

[ramjet]

In answer to your topic title @Beady,

Don't do it.

There you go.

[Yan]

In all honesty, I prefer my Evora GT430 Sport over the 570S. Yes the 570S is fun at full tilt, but boy that's some serious speed to get anywhere near its limits. At sane speeds its kinda... boring. Just like the Ferrari 488 I drove on the same day, the Macca is just too civilised at normal speeds. An Evora on the other hand, still feels special at regular (legal) speeds.

If you like everyone staring at you, go ahead, get the Macca. But if you're in it for the driving experience, get an Evora whilst you wait for an Emira.

I have also owned a few Renaultsport cars and still have one as a daily. I am yet to drive an A110 (I am promised a go in one by a mate), but if its like my daily Megane RS280, it'll be very refined around town, fun at speed on B roads, but not raw enough like a Lotus. The EDC gearbox is very good, in fact, I rate it better than BMW's DCT, but if you like heel and toe you will be disappointed.

[MJON]

Take the Emira, in whatever colour, If it doesn’t suit move it on, it will be the cheapest car you’ve ever owned. That’s the no brainer 👍

[Beady]

Update -

I drove the A110 yesterday - have to admit it’s brilliant. Light handling is quite lotus like. clearly looks are subjective but I like it.

The real purpose of the drive was to see how I liked the DCT - it is very quick to change gear but I have a nagging doubt I would end up leaving it in auto mode most of the time and being lazy.

if I am happy to do that then it would very tempting to get one of these and save £20k over an FE i4 emira.

Still debating it on my own head but gut feel is I prefer a manual which takes me back the emira V6.

however, the man maths then kicks in for the McLaren 570- only circa £15-20k more, of course 4-5 yrs old but wow what a machine and I think I could live with the paddle shift as the performance is mind blowing.

so if a v6 emira is worth paying £30k over an alpine, then a 570 is sure worth £20k over an emira 

 think this means that the A110 of a very much now an outsider as for sporty (not mind blowing) performance I think I would like a manual.

however I am really really tempted by the 570 - if I find one in the right colour/ spec before I have to commit to the emira then I think I might JFDI.

First world problems!

 

 

 

[simonb]

Love the workings of the man maths to pay £50K more for a second hand paddle shift McLaren than a paddle shift Alpine, using a mid point stick shift Emira to justify

Just do it if you can afford it

[r3nault]

^^ yes, quite!

My thinking is turbos have taken all the character out of engines, which then gets artificially put back in the form of pops and gurgles. NA or supercharged engines are not long for this world… nor are manual transmissions.

So for my money, I’d rather an Emira V6 manual… drive it til it dies (unless I die first)

[mneil]

4 hours ago, Beady said:

Update -

I drove the A110 yesterday - have to admit it’s brilliant. Light handling is quite lotus like. clearly looks are subjective but I like it.

The real purpose of the drive was to see how I liked the DCT - it is very quick to change gear but I have a nagging doubt I would end up leaving it in auto mode most of the time and being lazy.

if I am happy to do that then it would very tempting to get one of these and save £20k over an FE i4 emira.

Still debating it on my own head but gut feel is I prefer a manual which takes me back the emira V6.

however, the man maths then kicks in for the McLaren 570- only circa £15-20k more, of course 4-5 yrs old but wow what a machine and I think I could live with the paddle shift as the performance is mind blowing.

so if a v6 emira is worth paying £30k over an alpine, then a 570 is sure worth £20k over an emira 

 think this means that the A110 of a very much now an outsider as for sporty (not mind blowing) performance I think I would like a manual.

however I am really really tempted by the 570 - if I find one in the right colour/ spec before I have to commit to the emira then I think I might JFDI.

First world problems!

 

 

 

If you were impressed with the standard A110, might I respectfully suggest you try to get a test in a
"Life" modified A110, it takes it to another level.

Search for Life A110 or David Pook the dynamics engineer behind "Life".

[Pugwash]

7 hours ago, Beady said:

Update -

I drove the A110 yesterday - have to admit it’s brilliant. Light handling is quite lotus like. clearly looks are subjective but I like it.

The real purpose of the drive was to see how I liked the DCT - it is very quick to change gear but I have a nagging doubt I would end up leaving it in auto mode most of the time and being lazy.

if I am happy to do that then it would very tempting to get one of these and save £20k over an FE i4 emira.

Still debating it on my own head but gut feel is I prefer a manual which takes me back the emira V6.

however, the man maths then kicks in for the McLaren 570- only circa £15-20k more, of course 4-5 yrs old but wow what a machine and I think I could live with the paddle shift as the performance is mind blowing.

so if a v6 emira is worth paying £30k over an alpine, then a 570 is sure worth £20k over an emira 

 think this means that the A110 of a very much now an outsider as for sporty (not mind blowing) performance I think I would like a manual.

however I am really really tempted by the 570 - if I find one in the right colour/ spec before I have to commit to the emira then I think I might JFDI.

First world problems!

 

 

 

I also tested a A110 last year to help me understand what the DCT flappy paddle experience was like.  It’s a great car, no doubt, but it confirmed that DCT is not for me.  Like you, I could see it defaulting to auto most of the time.  Manual for me.  

Oh, and this doesn’t help your man maths but factor in three years running costs.