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Elise 250 Cup hesitation


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Evening all,

I’ve been an Evora owner previously, but managed to upgrade to a perfect 68 reg Elise 250 Cup - which is pretty much my dream car. 

But… I‘ve noticed a really odd hesitation at 1,800 revs (noticeable in 1st, 2nd and 3rd) - which especially in 1st can really kangaroo the car (and feels fairly dangerous at junctions). It’s repeatedly demonstrated by being in 2nd, dropping below 1,800 revs - then booting it and the hesitation occurs. No mods to the car, but just had a new sport cat

 

 

which has disintegrated (under 7k miles of use). 

Nothing has shown up on computer readings, and the fault only shows up after the engine has warmed up - and Lotus are out of ideas. 
 

Any suggestions??

I’ll see if I can upload some footage too. 
 

Thanks, Tim. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

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Engine related issues have to be related to one of three things...

1. Fuel

2. Electrical

3. Air

 

Fuel - check/replace injectors /  fuel filter / fuel pump... 

I don't think it is electrical, as the engine doesn't seem to be cutting out.

Air - check the throttle function. Check the air filter. Does a Toyota engine have the equivalent of the K-series Throttle position sensor? Check that too.

 

Good luck!

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Thanks for the tips. I swear it can’t be right - but lotus and Bell & Colvill can’t find anything wrong… and have suggested I’m not driving it right… And I agree with all your comments  

Any one else got a 250 cup on this forum? Ideally 2018-2019 reg…

thanks!!

 

 

 

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That doesn't sound right, I would persist with B&C - presumably they can reproduce the issue themselves and/or you have demoed it to them?

Its definitely not right from that video you have uploaded.

Like suggestions above I would be looking at air feed, spark, fuel and perhaps the cat.  Maybe get someone else to drive by and you stand behind and see if you get some rotten egg...

A cheap idea maybe to use a fuel system cleaner like Red Ex - they do a '3000 mile clean' one as well as the regular one.

Do you get the stutter at all when revving in neutral?

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Good question. Not tried it whilst in neutral. I don’t think so - but will have a go. 

And yes - reproduced by lotus tech - but because there are no computer codes they have said they can’t help me…

Pretty bummed as the car is awesome… but pulling out at junctions feels a little unsafe on occasion!!!!!

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I'm not surprised - it looks like quite a big stutter!

Assuming you bought the car from B&C as well, I would expect them to be looking at this properly and not deferring to 'computer says no' however it is good that they acknowledge the problem.  That simply means the error is transient enough to not register a fault code which would suggest a failing component - perhaps the MAF sensor or the Lambda sensors.

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Thanks for the suggestions - and yes - is from B&C (with warranty til later this year). But they have currently given up on being able to solve it…

One to follow up on again me thinks.

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Does this happen when the car is hot or cold, or all the time?

Have you made any modifications to the car?

Can you drive past the issue eg more throttle?

How old is the fuel?

Does it only happen in Sport mode?

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

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Hey Bibs.  Totally stock, doesn’t happen when cold, only when warmed up. Fuel is fresh. Happens in sport and regular mode. Only happens when you go past 1.8k revs with moderate to full throttle. 
Thanks for the thoughts. 

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Ok. Did another check based on the queries. 

1) Just reving the engine, no hesitation at all - ie only under load. 
2) Looks like doesn’t matter if engine is warm or not - got the hesitation at cold yesterday… would suggest the fault can be intermittent, as I have had about 10 mins of driving it about a month ago when there was no hesitation…

Does anyone know someone else who has a cup?

Thanks for the ideas!

 

 

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I had some hesitation many years ago, not as bad as yours seems to be. Not the same engine as your Toyota though, It was a 1.8 K series, no check engine light, no codes. Seemed fine at idle, but going up the road was not right. The engine has 2 coil packs, each one also has a lead to another spark plug. One of the leads at the coil pack end was corroded, as was the inside area of the coil pack. Changed the lead and coil pack - was fine. 

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I have a 250 cup and will be using it this week so happy to try to replicate it in mine?  Let me know what to try and I’ll report back. 
 

There is a private lotus Elise cup Facebook group (I don’t Facebook) which has many owners that might be able to help. 

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2017 Cup 250 here, no hesitation when warm but...

When cold (just started) there is sometimes a slight delay/hiccup if you give the throttle a quick blip - this disappears completely after a minute or so of running. I think that this is quite common on the 2ZR cars, I've experienced exactly the same on a couple of 220s. A few years ago (soon after the 2ZR cars were first released) I passed on a bargain car for this very reason as I thought that there was something wrong with it :lol:

I reiterate though, never had anything when warmed up (even slightly warmed!), it's smooth as silk then under all throttle conditions. Hope you get it sorted, they are brilliant cars :thumbup:

EDIT: Just looked at your video, that's definitely NOT right. I would insist that the dealer sorts it to your satisfaction, as a consumer your rights are very powerful indeed!

Edited by duncx
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Thanks - and yes - seems to be good support for this not being normal (even had some challenge that I wasn’t driving the car hard enough - which I happily do - but not all the time!!). 
 

Got a few good suggestions here so I reckon it’s one to go back to B&C now - and see what they say. 

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I can confirm that it is possible for me to reproduce the above in my Cup 250.

With very low revs in second and a planted foot the car will kangeroo as above.  

Honestly I have never had any issues driving the car so I'm not bothered by this, at such low revs I'm surprised the car doesn't stall, maybe this is some sort of anti-stall behaviour?  I didn't get a chance to test it with the TC off.

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Most engines would protest if you booted them at 1500rpm. Tried it in my Audi DCT and it wouldn’t let me, it shifted down even in manual mode. If that is the only situation in which the engine hesitates and it can be cured by using a smoother application of the throttle at low revs then I suggest it would benefit the whole drivetrain to do so.

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Thanks for the feedback - and good to know.
 

Honestly it’s only when I’m not pushing on when it’s caught me out - or in 1st gear at a junction (which you can begin at above 2k revs, but has caught me out a few times when I’m not on it).
 

And I’d say somewhere between half and full throttle - it’s not me being a doughnut and not using gears sensibly!!

 

The bit I do find weird is that I have had about 10 mins of perfect driving… so it’s not happening all the time. 
 

Really tricky as it’s a dream car - but has definitely caught me out a bit. Appreciate the ideas from all too. Thanks. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok, lots more trying stuff out to try to narrow down the issues…

Even with a quarter to half on the accelerator I get the hesitation (hadn’t tried this before).

Will be getting back to B&C. Realised when I was in traffic in 1st and tried to move into a space - and still got the jerk!!
 

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No specific help, sorry, but adding background, my 2019 250 Cup behaves just as Dunc described above on the 5th. (A post update car, with the better exhaust sounds.)

After a cold start, there is occasionally a very brief hesitation on giving it some throttle in 1st or 2nd as pulling away. Not looked at rpm as of no concern but around 2,000 rpm, certainly under 2,500.  Always within about the first 30 seconds. Never at any other time.

Probably not relevant, but I always and only use Shell Vpower (99 octane).  If you don't use that, or maybe the BP one, can't remember the name but only 97 octane, I'd try a tankful - from a different location than your usual.

I hope B&C square up to the problem - I'd say they have no option if they have experienced the issue. They have a good reputation generally.  It seems like exchanging components has to be the next steps, coils, TPS, fuel pressure regulation, whatever.  Assume you've had the fuel injection line replaced under the recall? (Fire risk.)

Highly unsatisfactory situation. Suggest you express yourself very clearly to B&C  

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On 05/06/2022 at 12:07, duncx said:

2017 Cup 250 here, no hesitation when warm but...

When cold (just started) there is sometimes a slight delay/hiccup if you give the throttle a quick blip - this disappears completely after a minute or so of running. I think that this is quite common on the 2ZR cars, I've experienced exactly the same on a couple of 220s. A few years ago (soon after the 2ZR cars were first released) I passed on a bargain car for this very reason as I thought that there was something wrong with it :lol:

 

My 240FE is exactly the same sometimes.  

2021 Lotus Elise Sport 240 FE in Solid Red, Red Interior Colour Pack, AirCon, Floor Mats, Cruise Control, Stereo, Satin Anthracite 10-spoke forged wheels.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say a faulty lamda sensor or faulty MAF sensor.

When cold, it will use a fixed engine map for fueling, but as soon as the engine is warm enough it will start using the sensors to calculate the correct fuel air ratio after about 1500 rpm.  Might also be the reason your CATs are failing quickly.

At MOT time and they always test with the engine warm and at a fast idle for this very reason.

I would probably start with getting an exhaust gas analysis performed and take it from there.

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