Emira Market Watch and Discussion

[AK70]

Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future....

You should not forget, the sports car markets in total is very small. Not many want to buy one. Even Porsche would not have survived with the 911 alone.... So I think the prices will be stable but on a lower level.

As soon as more EV sports cars (convertibles) are coming to market, it will be an even smaller niche market.. Time will tell 😉  (but even the most iconic Esprit is not an easy sell)

[TomE]

On 05/07/2022 at 21:36, Wake said:

Are there plans to continue the V6 for the life of the Emira? I recall reading about Lotus buying a bulk order of the V6 from Toyota and when it’s gone it’s gone. Probably complete shite though 

Toyota will keep building the V6 as long as Lotus keep buying it.  It isn't EU7 emissions compliant, so after 2025/6 it can't be sold in UK and EU.  That'll probably kill it off, unless there's continuing strong demand from other regions such as US.  But I think Lotus will do a Final Edition with a power bump and some carbon bits, then retire the V6 around 2025.  Type 135 comes then and is being built at Hethel, so stop V6 and use the capacity to build the EV alongside the i4.

[simonb]

I think the v6 will wither on the vine once the i4 is out.  There are a limited number of drivers who must have a manual, and prefer more cylinders; but if the i4 is judged "better" in reviews it will influence those who claim not to be influenced by reviews

The other issue will be the fact that the sky is the limit for tuning (and cheap tuning) on the i4, where the manual v6 is torque limited.  An i4 GT450 or GT500 edition may change preferences 

[TomE]

Given the challenges Lotus and AMG are having getting the i4 Emira finished, I think the suggestions of “easy” tuning may not be as realistic as people think.  Headline power maybe, but thermal management and reliability may be significant factors.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Surely the 416bhp output of the A45S is the very least we can expect out of the box at some point? If it’s reliable enough for a family hatchback, then I don’t see any point in not offering it in the Emira as a next step.

[simonb]

1 hour ago, TomE said:

Given the challenges Lotus and AMG are having getting the i4 Emira finished, I think the suggestions of “easy” tuning may not be as realistic as people think.  Headline power maybe, but thermal management and reliability may be significant factors.

are the problems any greater than getting "an evora in a new frock" out to market

[TomE]

I’m not an expert on these things.  If Lotus and AMG need an extra 6 months to get a 360hp version of the i4 into the Emira, then presumably it’s not as easy as people think.  I do know thermal management has been a significant factor.

Lotus also want the tuning and changes to intake and exhaust to make it more “Lotus-like”.

[C8RKH]

The requirement for new car models to have the ISA ( Intelligent Speed Assist) technology incorporated for all NEW car models sold in the EU comes into force today. As yet the UK has not decided if it is following the EUs directive.

The one statement in the EU directive that caught my eye was this one:

'The new EU rules mean all newly launched cars - so ones not already in dealer showrooms - will have to have speed limiters installed by law from July 6.'

 

This strongly suggests to me, as the EMIRA is not in showrooms today, that EU model variant Emiras WILL NEED to have ISA installed and active.

ANyone know any better?

[TomE]

I’d previously been told by Lotus the regulation would not apply to the V6 due to timing of type approval, rather than date physically in showrooms.

The i4 will likely need it, as separate type approval needed and not likely to be achieved until Q4 this year. 

[Rambo]

Something I posted the other day

https://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/114800-2-3-years-left-to-enjoy-our-sports-cars/?do=findComment&comment=986709

[Rambo]

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/103530/speed-limiters-all-new-cars-next-week-know-rules-and-how-they-work

[mdavies]

Excessive concern IMO about ISA things - a rude gesture to that name.  Akin to the potential death-trap motorways now being created without hard shoulders being named "technology upgrades".

For those prepared and able to take charge and the responsibility of managing the driving of their cars themselves, without "assistance" - something that I assume does apply, at least in principle, to the great majority of drivers of Lotus cars prior to the Emira (afraid I can't so readily assume that it applies to the same high majority of the "new buyers" of the Emira), then some sticky tape over visual sensor(s) and a portable GPS jammer should largely take care of ISA type things.

 

 

[Trevsked]

7 hours ago, C8RKH said:

The requirement for new car models to have the ISA ( Intelligent Speed Assist) technology incorporated for all NEW car models sold in the EU comes into force today. As yet the UK has not decided if it is following the EUs directive.

The one statement in the EU directive that caught my eye was this one:

'The new EU rules mean all newly launched cars - so ones not already in dealer showrooms - will have to have speed limiters installed by law from July 6.'

 

This strongly suggests to me, as the EMIRA is not in showrooms today, that EU model variant Emiras WILL NEED to have ISA installed and active.

ANyone know any better?

Is it perhaps that Emira has taken deposits and given sales are direct, then it has effectively been in online showrooms. Remember, there are no “dealer” showrooms now, just agents.

 

Trevor.

[C8RKH]

That's why I asked Trevor. It's unclear to me as Emira has not shipped yet, so does it count as being in the showroom (digital or physical) or is it still pre-launch? It just feels like a very grey area. Same I suppose could said of the Eletre maybe? I mean, what's the point (in general too) of a 900bhp SUV that automatically limits your speed. Imagine the frustration on the M1 as you're stuck as a mobile traffic jam at 70 with everyone zooming around you?

Yes, I know you can override it by pressing the button (defaults back to on when car switched off) but people will regularly get caught out.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Bravo73

[Bibs]

17 hours ago, TomE said:

I do know thermal management has been a significant factor.

Very much this I'd imagine. The M139 has a huge turbo mounted high up with a cat pretty much straight after it, both massive sources of heat. Not so bad in a front engined car with lots of airflow through the engine bay but a much trickier proposition in a mid-engine installation. 

 

[hamza]

That’s just a good excuse for a huge roof scoop a la Exige (or Huracan  STO which allegedly has its roof scoop for cooling) and/or additional side intakes like the Cayman GT4. 

Up the power to 450+, additional wings, vents and carbon… hey presto Emira GT450 😆

I jest of course, because it won’t be quite so simple but I do also expect that it will happen. 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Lotus have been putting turbocharged I4s into their mid-engined cars since AMG were in nappies. I am sure they can get their heads around this. Maybe the Emira just needs a slatted engine cover a la Turbo Esprit and Evora Sport 410 & GT430? Also, presumably the cooking 360bhp engine also has a big turbo and cat, so probably no better than the full fat 416bhp motor for thermal management.

[Barrykearley]

2 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Also, presumably the cooking 360bhp engine also has a big turbo and cat, so probably no better than the full fat 416bhp motor for thermal management.

It’ll only be a few years and then decat pipes and custom exhausts will be all over the internet - freeing up that problem 😂

[simonb]

I assume the rear seats were exchanged for air space; and that the rear shelf in the i4 will be the take away warming plate

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Maybe they should put a big rearward facing cooling fan where the rear seats used to be and a hole in the bulkhead. Might even add an extra mph or two to the top speed.

[Barrykearley]

That would risk sucking the froth off the top of @C8RKHs cappuccino in the cup holder though. That would cause a meteoric internet backlash 

[JimH]

3 hours ago, simonb said:

I assume the rear seats were exchanged for air space; and that the rear shelf in the i4 will be the take away warming plate

The turbo is at the back of the M139 engine, whether front (e.g. Merc/AMG A45S) or mid-mounted.....

 

[Mickle]

Remembering back to the Emira reviews and press coverage in China, I'm sure they were publishing i4 FEs as having 400HP and 480NM there. So I'd presume Lotus are already developing the thermal management to cope with that amount of power.

[simonb]

if they can sell 360bhp in the gulf, I would take my chances on 400bhp plus being OK in england

[Bibs]

While thermal management is certainly a serious consideration for the engine, bear in mind that the power in the first editions will be making room for quicker, lighter, more powerful versions in the not too distant future. No OEM releases the full fat version first, there are always upgrades through the models life cycle and they would have all been planned already.