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Bibs

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  • Gold FFM

Not really @LotusLeftLotusRight as bills are paid by households, and they could have 1, or many people. So no, sorry.

However, as the population grows then those young shit machines produce an awful lot of bio waste to be dealt with, before we even think about the wet wipes lol... without paying anything for it.

I came into this world screaming and covered in someone elses blood. I'll probably leave it in the same way. 

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Have you not noticed the hundreds of thousands of new homes sprouting up on green field land around every town? They all get bought and lived in, so that means more money for water companies and councils. No effort required.

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  • Gold FFM

I have, and you have changed your point to suit. you were talking about people (population) not households hence my response.

@andydclements there is no point trying to use reason/rationale and you just need to accept it is always the fault of companies, it's never anything to do with consumers behaviours etc....

The issues are complex - political both local and national. Consumers behaviour. Rules and regulations. Planning. Etc....

But hey let's keep it simple and blame a corporation as that is just so easy (and lazy).

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I came into this world screaming and covered in someone elses blood. I'll probably leave it in the same way. 

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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/01/england-privatised-water-firms-dividends-shareholders

^ Just sayin'!!

We've had a leak in our road for 4 months. 3rd one in as many years but always a metre away from the last. Southern Water said that it's too expensive to repair as they'll need to replace the whole road (all 11 houses long!) so in the meantime several thousand litres of water end up in my drive every day.

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1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

I..... it's never anything to do with consumers behaviours etc....

I'm fully prepared to to "blame" the consumers behaviour.  I just fail to understand why we in the UK can't be as profligate as we want given the amount of water resources we have.  It just needs to be better managed.  I've played on golf courses in deserts so it can obviously be done where there's a will.  I pay for the water I use (metered) and am happy with that arrangement.  But cant see why I should cut down if I'm prepared to pay.  Any more than I need to sell my car and get one with better MPG.  Selfish yes, but not impossible to supply.

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Loving Lionel and Eleanor......missing Charlie and Sonny

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9 hours ago, Bibs said:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/01/england-privatised-water-firms-dividends-shareholders

^ Just sayin'!!

We've had a leak in our road for 4 months. 3rd one in as many years but always a metre away from the last. Southern Water said that it's too expensive to repair as they'll need to replace the whole road (all 11 houses long!) so in the meantime several thousand litres of water end up in my drive every day.

Apparently there is a problem at the moment. The old pipes corrode as they were metal, OK, we get that, and hence they have been replaced by poly ones in many places. Poly degrades in light (photodegradable) but under ground there's no light so should last a very long time , but it isn't and that's the problem. So this is an industry problem and replacing one bit of poly pipe with a slightly newer bit of poly pipe doesn't mean it fixes the problem, it just kicks it down the road (figuratively) a few years and is very expensive given we now know it's got just a few years (OK decades but not several decades) before it's failing again.

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  • Gold FFM

Modern PVC water pipes have a useful operational lifetime (planned) of 90-100 years.

There are 450,000 miles of water and sewage pipes in the UK - enough to go to the moon and back.

So assuming some of the early PVC pipes are coming to end of life (humour me) that would mean we would need to start a national replacement programme - it would need to run on a 100 year cycle (the p0lanned life expectancy) so that would mean we would be continually replacing 4,500 miles of pipes every year, assuming no growth in population, water catchment, water treatment etc.  That's some programme to carry out just to "avoid" the pipes aging out.  In parallel, we would still be dealing with old metal pipes and infrastructure, so that would add another 2,000 miles of pipes for the first 50 years. So from now, for the next 50 years, we would be digging up and replacing 6,500 miles of "old" pipe JUST to stand still at current volumes.

Wow!

Then let's take the argument re new houses being built meaning the water companies are rolling in it.  Average new house developments are what, 100 - 250 houses a time? Does that seem reasonable?  Take the averasge UK household water bill (water and waste) which is c. £420 per year (OFWAT) in England and Wales. That equates to additional revenues (not profits) of £42,000 per year per hundred houses. 

UU recently completed a full refresh of its waste water treatment plant for Blackburn, where it will serve 400,000 people, at a cost of £164m.  Assuming UK average of 2.2 per household, that is around 190,000 bill payers (households). So the asset replacement cost was £865 per household. It would take around 4 years of billing, with full cash collected (i.e. no debt or failures to pay) for the invested cash in that works to be recovered. That does not include the cost of running the works (water treatment uses a lot of energy too), or, the cost of servicing, or the customer services costs, the cost of debt, etc.

Water companies "profits" are DICTATED by the Regulator. I am not sure how many people actually realise that. And in the UK, our water charges are some of the lowest in the western world.

But being British we do like a good old moan at "corporates". By the way, the situation in Ireland is much worse, as the Irish will gladly argue that as God blesses Ireland with megalitres of water, in the form of rain, for free, every year, the waste companies have no right to charge them for something they get, from God, for free!

I came into this world screaming and covered in someone elses blood. I'll probably leave it in the same way. 

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To be fair, in my experience not all of those pipes will be paid for by the water companies.

I replaced the water pipe at my house, paid to cut off and remove the old metal one, paid for a new pipe to be laid and connected and paid for the road closure to do it. Therefore, I suspect unless it's a mains pipe that needs replacing, the home owners are likely to be footing the bill for a lot of it.

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  • Gold FFM

The miles of pipe quoted was "owned" by the water companies who have only ever, iirc, been responsible for the pipes to your boundary.

Those on your land are yours to maintain usually.

I came into this world screaming and covered in someone elses blood. I'll probably leave it in the same way. 

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Correct.

I was told by Scottish Water that they had traced a leak to my driveway and I was responsible for any repairs as it was within my boundaries. When SW partially dug up my drive and hadn't found the leak, they backtracked to the supply pipe and found out the leak was actually at their T connection on the boundary as it came into my property.

It then became their problem so they had to reinstate my drive to it's original condition without any charge to me.

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On 17/11/2022 at 17:56, Mark Blanchard said:

We have floods around here and Thames Water still have the hose pipe bans in place too.  It's probably because they don't maintain their water pipes and they're all leaking.

TW have ended their hose pipe ban today.....it seems to have been so wet for weeks down here.

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