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Heel & Toe with ESP OFF


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Hi Guys,

Quite by chance last week I discovered a thing that surprised me.  While driving with ESP OFF (Thats press and hold RACE and then press and hold again to turn ESP OFF entirely) i found it far easier to heel & toe.  The accelerator revved more freely with minimal foot roll which it never does (for me at least) when in the usual TC settings of Drive, Sport, or RACE.

Anyone else noticed this?

JC

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Hey JC, I found it the same. I am pretty sure it is due the control of the dpm system, especially in touring, the ecu controls the throttle input quite a lot, and it is simple logic to say that our feet doesn't give much direct control on the pedal.

Frank

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Hi Frank,

Glad i wasn't imagining it.  I am no heel and toe whizz and i couldnt understand why some people can do it so easily (in other cars) and others cannot.  It was like, for the first time, it just worked; easily.

In other news i did have a scary straight line tail slide the other week when accelerating hard on a slightly damp road, changing up from second to third gear with ESP Off.  Thankfully it was all very smooth and a reduction in throttle combined with corrective steer sorted it out.

Wise to moderate throttle inputs when its damp and ESP is off.

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In my case, the car is very very nervous when on damp roads, as a simple lift off the throttle (including rushing the gears un-smoothly) can cause devastating reaction to the car behavior, and eventually lead to a spin...badly.

Be very careful driving on damp roads with ESP off. (don't ask me how i knew it lol.) I would humbly advise only drive the car on dry without ESP for a more safer control experiencing the car's limit.

Frank

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Actually I did just this yesterday at Castle Combe on a drying track.

It does seem easier to H& T with it off although I also have additional slip settings which I left at their least aggressive.

Instead of the usual induction type effect  the engine actually revs on immediate throttle 

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On 27/09/2022 at 17:25, Tex said:

Actually I did just this yesterday at Castle Combe on a drying track.

It does seem easier to H& T with it off although I also have additional slip settings which I left at their least aggressive.

Instead of the usual induction type effect  the engine actually revs on immediate throttle 

Hi Colin, this is good to know. I wonder, when the slip setting is there, would there still be traction control if the dpm is turned off at the same time?

Frank

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On 27/09/2022 at 15:41, El-RGB said:

In my case, the car is very very nervous when on damp roads, as a simple lift off the throttle (including rushing the gears un-smoothly) can cause devastating reaction to the car behavior, and eventually lead to a spin...badly.

Be very careful driving on damp roads with ESP off. (don't ask me how i knew it lol.) I would humbly advise only drive the car on dry without ESP for a more safer control experiencing the car's limit.

Frank

Just need to spend some time on the skidpan to learn how to control the car at its limits. It’s the best form of T/C for yourself imho.  I found the exige to be very predictable and balanced, also have tendency to want to center itself once you get the rear end out.  I drive solely with tc off wet or dry and on semi slicks.  Have no issues at all, and its great fun once you get a hand of it ;)

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I found it very balanced when i lost traction at the rear in the wet.  Still, always a shock when you are not intending for it to step out.

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4 hours ago, El-RGB said:

Hi Colin, this is good to know. I wonder, when the slip setting is there, would there still be traction control if the dpm is turned off at the same time?

Frank

I believe this subject was well investigated a couple of years back but after a quick look I couldn’t find the thread.

However, on the Cup430 you have a Variable TC control knob and with it set to off the car allegedly has no TC

As I only occasionally run it fully off and running On Nankang AR1’s it’s difficult to provoke a slide on track in the dry so not totally sure it is fully off, although I did get some drifting going at Castle Combe 

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  • 1 month later...
On 29/09/2022 at 11:29, El-RGB said:

Hi Colin, this is good to know. I wonder, when the slip setting is there, would there still be traction control if the dpm is turned off at the same time?

Frank

It's quite confusing mainly because there are lots of acronyms and the terms get mixed up not just on forum posts but also by Lotus themselves at times (or perhaps they changed the meanings as the car evolved).

DPM is the umbrella term for the whole combo of ESP, TC, ABS and all the related features - there is no way to turn all its subsystems off totally so "DPM Off" is not possible as such.

ESP (or VDC as it's sometimes called) is active in Tour, Sport and Race but with different calibration and features for each. It can be turned off by going into Race mode and giving another 1-second press to the Race button. At that point the variable TC knob becomes active and if set to OFF means you have neither ESP or TC active anymore. Confusingly the "skidding car" indicator light in the dash comes on in Race mode even though ESP is still on - it changes to show a tiny "off" in ESP-off mode. The best confirmation of which mode you're in is to look for the variable TC percentage or the TC OFF indicator.

ABS and HBA (hydraulic brake assist, which maximises braking if the car thinks you're doing an emergency stop) are always active even when TC is off. I just posted a longer summary here earlier today if you want more links and details.

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