V8 Engine ECM Upgrade

[toyroom 5]

Now that I have a gearbox capable of taking it, what would be the best engine ecm upgrade to give about 450 to 500 bhp without any risk to the engine. I would be looking for accelleration rather than high top end. I did try the search first, honest !

[mike_sekinger 697]

Now that I have a gearbox capable of taking it, what would be the best engine ecm upgrade to give about 450 to 500 bhp without any risk to the engine. I would be looking for accelleration rather than high top end. I did try the search first, honest !

There are a number of upgrade chipsets that you can get easily. If you are UK based then the easiest would be to get the PUKEsprit chipset.....

....... but, you will not make 450-500bhp by just upgrading the ECU alone.

The upgraded ECU will provide the calibrated fuel mapping necessary to compliment any increases in boost. Increases in boost are necessary to get more air into the engine. You really need to be aware that if your turbos are standard Lotus items, that increases in boost will result in an elevated inlet temperature (no intercooling); This will reduce power and not increase it.

You need to investigate what kind of genuine power outputs your are seeking and plan all of the necessary modification to meet it.

I

[Paula&Marcus 0]

Hi John,

IMHO, the easiest, most simple and most effective power increase is this:

1. Get the "Red" Chipset #3

This will eliminate the boost restrictions in all gears and will allow boost up to 0.9-1 bar.

2. Get two "proper" wastegate capsules, that donot get forced open too early via exhaust gas pressure. The stock capsules are somewhat weak and will open (= act like a boost-fuse) at boost pressures between 0.5-0.7 bar. According to the specs they should hold tight up to 0.75 bar. But, unfortunately most capsules are weaker and donot even allow the factory spec 0.75 bar ...

3. Get two high flow air filters (like K&N or similar)

4. Get two high flow metal cats. This will further improve power and torque significantly.

With only mod 1 and 2 you will see the most initial increase in torque and power. Depending on ambient temp you will see an initial power/torque increase between 25-28%.

With the mods 1-4 you will get around 450 HP.

For sustained max power you will also need two reflowed turbos and some sort of intercooling (like water injection or water/air intercoolers)

Cheers

Marcus

www.PUKesprit.de

PS: I personally also run my own V8 with "Red" chip #3 + Alu capsules + high flow cats + K&N filters. Max boost I get is around 0.9 bar. I also dont have any intercooling installed. Performance is more than amazing ! Compared with a bone stock one its like day and night. My V8 now has around 40000 km and not given any single engine/gearbox problem so far ... knock on wood !

Now that I have a gearbox capable of taking it, what would be the best engine ecm upgrade to give about 450 to 500 bhp without any risk to the engine. I would be looking for accelleration rather than high top end. I did try the search first, honest !

Edited September 12, 2007 by Paula&Marcus

[BusaNostra 0]

1. Get the "Red" Chipset #3

This will eliminate the boost restrictions in all gears and will allow boost up to 0.9-1 bar.

Marcus---what is the difference between the "RED" Chipset #3 vs Johans Red-hi Torque chip? I noticed his is way too rich specially at the low rpm. Do you think I can get gbetter horsepower with the #3 in a given rpm vs Johan?

[Paula&Marcus 0]

Hi,

Honestly I cannot comment on Johan's chips, because I have never seen one in person.

Our Red #3 code is not particular richer in any rpm range vs. the stock code. It still operates at lambda 1 (= 14,7:1 A/F) in closed loop conditions (= TPS < 95%). Otherwise the cats would not work properly. Of course, in reality you will use a bit more fuel with #3, because the average boost level is higher with #3 vs. stock.

Cheers

Marcus

www.PUKesprit.de

1. Get the "Red" Chipset #3

This will eliminate the boost restrictions in all gears and will allow boost up to 0.9-1 bar.

Marcus---what is the difference between the "RED" Chipset #3 vs Johans Red-hi Torque chip? I noticed his is way too rich specially at the low rpm. Do you think I can get gbetter horsepower with the #3 in a given rpm vs Johan?

[toyroom 5]

That sounds like EXACTLY what I am seeking. I already have the hi flow cats and the K&N filters and I have seen the difference. What would be the cost of the ~3 chipset and the wastegates fitted ? How would this compare with the system Dave from the Wirral showed me ? (Superdave) This involved a dial on the dash which could control boost and had something like "MAD KIDZ" printed on it.

I would also like to know why my boost guage reads a quarter of full scale deflection in the first four gears and 60% FSD in fifth. There is a slight increase through the first four gears but 33% maximum boost in fourth. Could this be a wastegate working too soon problem ?

I look forward to your answers !

[Paula&Marcus 0]

John,

You have a PM ...

The system Dave showed you looks like a "normal" boost controller to me. Most boost controllers are set up in a way that the original ECU boost control function is disabled (= boost control solenoid removed) what IMHO is a bit a rude methode ...

The new ECU will control all parametres like the original/stock one just with higher boost levels and with adequate fuelling in these conditions.

The original/stock V8 has max. boost restrictions in all the lower gears. Originally it should show a boost behaviour like this:

... which is quite the same what you were describing. Although only 0.33 bar in 4th is a bit low ...

Cheers

Marcus

www.PUKesprit.de

That sounds like EXACTLY what I am seeking. I already have the hi flow cats and the K&N filters and I have seen the difference. What would be the cost of the ~3 chipset and the wastegates fitted ? How would this compare with the system Dave from the Wirral showed me ? (Superdave) This involved a dial on the dash which could control boost and had something like "MAD KIDZ" printed on it.

I would also like to know why my boost guage reads a quarter of full scale deflection in the first four gears and 60% FSD in fifth. There is a slight increase through the first four gears but 33% maximum boost in fourth. Could this be a wastegate working too soon problem ?

I look forward to your answers !

[JRTUPIN 0]

Hello Marcus;

I can guess that your engine is now much more powerfull

Do you have a stock gearbox in your own V8 ?

Do you think that gearbox can admitt more torque than stock engine?

Thank you

Hi John,

IMHO, the easiest, most simple and most effective power increase is this:

1. Get the "Red" Chipset #3

This will eliminate the boost restrictions in all gears and will allow boost up to 0.9-1 bar.

2. Get two "proper" wastegate capsules, that donot get forced open too early via exhaust gas pressure. The stock capsules are somewhat weak and will open (= act like a boost-fuse) at boost pressures between 0.5-0.7 bar. According to the specs they should hold tight up to 0.75 bar. But, unfortunately most capsules are weaker and donot even allow the factory spec 0.75 bar ...

3. Get two high flow air filters (like K&N or similar)

4. Get two high flow metal cats. This will further improve power and torque significantly.

With only mod 1 and 2 you will see the most initial increase in torque and power. Depending on ambient temp you will see an initial power/torque increase between 25-28%.

With the mods 1-4 you will get around 450 HP.

For sustained max power you will also need two reflowed turbos and some sort of intercooling (like water injection or water/air intercoolers)

Cheers

Marcus

www.PUKesprit.de

PS: I personally also run my own V8 with "Red" chip #3 + Alu capsules + high flow cats + K&N filters. Max boost I get is around 0.9 bar. I also dont have any intercooling installed. Performance is more than amazing ! Compared with a bone stock one its like day and night. My V8 now has around 40000 km and not given any single engine/gearbox problem so far ... knock on wood !

[Paula&Marcus 0]

Hello Tupin,

That question is not easy to answer ... its a Yes and an No ... it depends on how you treat it. Here is a very true quotation from the Turboesprit-List:

Hi All,

Yes you are right, we all have heard this numberous times now ... and

I can tell you from daily experience that there are many more than

just a few that simply donot listen.

Its always the same like this:

"Sorry, I just wanted to show off a bit and shifted down into 2nd

quickly @ 60mph and now I got a grind when going into 2nd ... "

"Help me I lost 5th gear when we tried to do some high speed run on

the dyno ..." (I still cannot believe how they managed to do this on

the dyno ... ?)

Its well documented by now that the Esprit gearbox is a weak part in

this V8 application. The gearbox itself is not a bad one its just not

bullet proof and its not up to the job when it comes to the

transients the V8 is able to produce. It can handle 350 Hp or more

and it also can handle the max. torque easily, but the problem are

the transients, which can be way more than the rated max. 400Nm.

Lotus itself was very well aware of this weakness and put a lot of

brain into detuning the V8 (i.g. reduced boost level in lower gears)

but since it is a manual shifter with a manual clutch you can still

do a lot to produce transients. Of course the wide tires also do a

lot to the transients ;o/

Its like sitting on a somewhat weak chair that will just hold you. If

you sit normally you will be fine, but if you start hopping up and

down it will break and you will find yourself on the ground ;o)

Just keep in mind, its all about mechanical sympathy ...

BTW, (occasional) track days are not a problem if you follow some

basic rules:

- dont shift too fast from 1st to 2nd (let the synchros do their job)

- dont shift too fast from 3rd to 2nd (- " -)

- avoid to shift from 2nd to 1st (unless you are VERY slow)

- donot stress the 5th gear too much with 100% WOT -> 0% WOT -> 100%

WOT at very high speeds (this usually is only a problem on German

Autobahns)

- do your shifts only in the proper rev-range

- never do speed shifting, please always use the clutch properly that

it fully disengages

- change your gearbox oil once a year (Castrol TAF-X)

Cheers

Marcus

Hello Marcus;

I can guess that your engine is now much more powerfull

Do you have a stock gearbox in your own V8 ?

Do you think that gearbox can admitt more torque than stock engine?

Thank you

[CockneyPlayboy 0]

Hi John,

IMHO, the easiest, most simple and most effective power increase is this:

1. Get the "Red" Chipset #3

This will eliminate the boost restrictions in all gears and will allow boost up to 0.9-1 bar.

2. Get two "proper" wastegate capsules, that donot get forced open too early via exhaust gas pressure. The stock capsules are somewhat weak and will open (= act like a boost-fuse) at boost pressures between 0.5-0.7 bar. According to the specs they should hold tight up to 0.75 bar. But, unfortunately most capsules are weaker and donot even allow the factory spec 0.75 bar ...

3. Get two high flow air filters (like K&N or similar)

4. Get two high flow metal cats. This will further improve power and torque significantly.

With only mod 1 and 2 you will see the most initial increase in torque and power. Depending on ambient temp you will see an initial power/torque increase between 25-28%.

With the mods 1-4 you will get around 450 HP.

For sustained max power you will also need two reflowed turbos and some sort of intercooling (like water injection or water/air intercoolers)

Cheers

Marcus

www.PUKesprit.de

PS: I personally also run my own V8 with "Red" chip #3 + Alu capsules + high flow cats + K&N filters. Max boost I get is around 0.9 bar. I also dont have any intercooling installed. Performance is more than amazing ! Compared with a bone stock one its like day and night. My V8 now has around 40000 km and not given any single engine/gearbox problem so far ... knock on wood !

How much approximately would that little package set me back matey?

Paul

[Paula&Marcus 0]

Paul,

I just sent you a PM ....

Marcus

PS: Great turquoise-white VW-bus "Bulli"....

How much approximately would that little package set me back matey?

Paul

Edited September 17, 2007 by Paula&Marcus

[JRTUPIN 0]

Hi Marcus;

When i read your basic rules; I need to be very carefully with the gearbox itself.

However; On my stock engine I have the sensation that the weak point is not gearbox; but engine mounts.

Indeed; when i ask for engine torque,the engine moves very much ( you can ear the engine bumps againts the engine bay ) .This phenomen happens even if when the car is still in movement on the 2nd gear. ( i don't talk about a stupid acceleration from 0 to 100km/h..)

What should it be if the engine torque is increased ( the engine will be ejected on the road..) ?

Bye

JR

Hello Tupin,

That question is not easy to answer ... its a Yes and an No ... it depends on how you treat it. Here is a very true quotation from the Turboesprit-List:

Hi All,

Yes you are right, we all have heard this numberous times now ... and

I can tell you from daily experience that there are many more than

just a few that simply donot listen.

Its always the same like this:

"Sorry, I just wanted to show off a bit and shifted down into 2nd

quickly @ 60mph and now I got a grind when going into 2nd ... "

"Help me I lost 5th gear when we tried to do some high speed run on

the dyno ..." (I still cannot believe how they managed to do this on

the dyno ... ?)

Its well documented by now that the Esprit gearbox is a weak part in

this V8 application. The gearbox itself is not a bad one its just not

bullet proof and its not up to the job when it comes to the

transients the V8 is able to produce. It can handle 350 Hp or more

and it also can handle the max. torque easily, but the problem are

the transients, which can be way more than the rated max. 400Nm.

Lotus itself was very well aware of this weakness and put a lot of

brain into detuning the V8 (i.g. reduced boost level in lower gears)

but since it is a manual shifter with a manual clutch you can still

do a lot to produce transients. Of course the wide tires also do a

lot to the transients ;o/

Its like sitting on a somewhat weak chair that will just hold you. If

you sit normally you will be fine, but if you start hopping up and

down it will break and you will find yourself on the ground ;o)

Just keep in mind, its all about mechanical sympathy ...

BTW, (occasional) track days are not a problem if you follow some

basic rules:

- dont shift too fast from 1st to 2nd (let the synchros do their job)

- dont shift too fast from 3rd to 2nd (- " -)

- avoid to shift from 2nd to 1st (unless you are VERY slow)

- donot stress the 5th gear too much with 100% WOT -> 0% WOT -> 100%

WOT at very high speeds (this usually is only a problem on German

Autobahns)

- do your shifts only in the proper rev-range

- never do speed shifting, please always use the clutch properly that

it fully disengages

- change your gearbox oil once a year (Castrol TAF-X)

Cheers

Marcus

[Paula&Marcus 0]

Hi JR,

This phenomen is not uncommon ... your engine mounts are either shot or installed incorrectly (= some muppets love to install them upside-down)

Please check your engine mounts and renew them ! You will see that this rocking and banging will suddenly disapear

Cheers

Marcus

www.PUKesprit.de

Hi Marcus;

When i read your basic rules; I need to be very carefully with the gearbox itself.

However; On my stock engine I have the sensation that the weak point is not gearbox; but engine mounts.

Indeed; when i ask for engine torque,the engine moves very much ( you can ear the engine bumps againts the engine bay ) .This phenomen happens even if when the car is still in movement on the 2nd gear. ( i don't talk about a stupid acceleration from 0 to 100km/h..)

What should it be if the engine torque is increased ( the engine will be ejected on the road..) ?

Bye

JR

[bzguy 2]

Hi JR,

This phenomen is not uncommon ... your engine mounts are either shot or installed incorrectly (= some muppets love to install them upside-down)

Please check your engine mounts and renew them ! You will see that this rocking and banging will suddenly disapear

Cheers

Marcus

www.PUKesprit.de

I LOVE reading Marcus' detailed information, is there anything he doesn't know ?

[Paula&Marcus 0]

Oh Hans, there is a lot I dont know ...

The good thing is that you never stop learning ...

Cheers

Marcus

I LOVE reading Marcus' detailed information, is there anything he doesn't know ?

[kyliesmith.com 3]

I LOVE reading Marcus' detailed information, is there anything he doesn't know ?

Couldnt agree more, all this reading is certainly prepping me for V8 ownership.

[Paula&Marcus 0]

Kylie,

Could you please tell us when it will arrive at your door ?

The champagne is already in the fridge ....

Cheers

Marcus

Couldnt agree more, all this reading is certainly prepping me for V8 ownership.

[e5pritV8 1]

Since we r talking about ECM,

My esprit is an American spec, I wanted to get the blue (high torque) ECM to get power in all gears except the first and also ignore the post cat O2 sensors,Is it possiable to get a chip or do I need the hole ECM.

[Paula&Marcus 0]

Hello Sofrata,

No problem the chips exist.

Just have a look, its chipset #1: http://freudhoefer.de/lotus/esprit/products/chips/v8.htm

You can get only the chips + chip-holders for do it yourself (= DIY option) installation, or you can get them installed in your ECU (= ECU option).

But, please keep in mind that the DIY installation of the two eprom chip holders is only possible with proper tools/equipment. You have to remove the existing chips (= 2 eeproms PLCC32) and install the new chip holders. These get soldered in place. Then you can just pop in the new chips. Of course you may also revert back just by swapping the chips out again.

Cheers

Marcus

Since we r talking about ECM,

My esprit is an American spec, I wanted to get the blue (high torque) ECM to get power in all gears except the first and also ignore the post cat O2 sensors,Is it possiable to get a chip or do I need the hole ECM.

Edited September 22, 2007 by Paula&Marcus

[e5pritV8 1]

Hello Sofrata,

No problem the chips exist.

Just have a look, its chipset #1: http://freudhoefer.de/lotus/esprit/products/chips/v8.htm

You can get only the chips + chip-holders for do it yourself (= DIY option) installation, or you can get them installed in your ECU (= ECU option).

But, please keep in mind that the DIY installation of the two eprom chip holders is only possible with proper tools/equipment. You have to remove the existing chips (= 2 eeproms PLCC32) and install the new chip holders. These get soldered in place. Then you can just pop in the new chips. Of course you may also revert back just by swapping the chips out again.

Cheers

Marcus

hey Marcus,

I checked the site #2 seems even better, I have the reflowed turbos and straight exhaust and I'm buying high performance wastages with the chip so #2 looks like a better deal don't u think.

The most important thing is I want no additional power to the first gear and post O2 sensors ignored,that is part of the high tourqe chip right?

[kyliesmith.com 3]

Kylie,

Could you please tell us when it will arrive at your door ?

The champagne is already in the fridge ....

Cheers

Marcus

Yes you and me both. I am extremely excited I bought a sport 350 No.23 which should arrive end of November. Its been really tough not having an Esprit in the garage, so I am really looking forward to the best ever xmas pressie I have always lustered after one of these, so I have made it finally happen.

Sorry for hijacking the thread guys

Back to ECU's

[Paula&Marcus 0]

Hi Sofrata,

#2 is different, because it allows manual boost increase (via boost valve or boost controller). If you dont increase boost it will behave exactly like #1.

Yes, the post O2-sensor readings are ignored when the engine is running. This is true for #0-#3. But, please keep in mind that the sensors have to be there. You should not completely remove them! The ECU is looking out for them right after you have started the engine.

Cheers

Marcus

PS: The gearbox problem is not just the first gear. Usually the first gear itself gets not damaged, because in first gear you will not get much load on the engine and therefore you also will not get much boost. Please be gentle to your gearbox. Use the first gear only for getting in motion then change early into second (not too fast) and then apply throttle gently ...

Most gearbox failures are the second gear synchros and the 5th gear main shaft snap ...

hey Marcus,

I checked the site #2 seems even better, I have the reflowed turbos and straight exhaust and I'm buying high performance wastages with the chip so #2 looks like a better deal don't u think.

The most important thing is I want no additional power to the first gear and post O2 sensors ignored,that is part of the high tourqe chip right?

Edited September 23, 2007 by Paula&Marcus

[toyroom 5]

Not so much confused as spoilt for choice ! You say that you would not recommend increasing boost pass 0.85 in a stock engine and yet #3 goes to 0.9 and sometimes 1.0. Does this mean that you could set #2 to behave loke #3 by setting the boost at 0.9.

I would like the idea of yet another gadget in the cockpit... but would not want to fiddle with a setting every time I wanted to overtake a long wagon.

Does the ACU mode still work in set #2?

What form does the boost controller take (appearance, size etc. and how easy is it to fit ?)

I see above that someone asked about first gear. Do chips #2 and #3 give full boost in all 5 gears or not? My first gear is now totally different to the stock item and is more like second gear used to be. It is almost impossible to provoke all but minimal wheelspin, even in the wet (I also have a Quaife LSD) So would it matter?

I am torn between #2 and #3 as I want as much acceleration as I can get but without risk to the engine. I plan to keep the car for a long time and use it as my daily transport.

[Paula&Marcus 0]

Hi John,

If you still have installed the original/stock weak wastgate capsules you will not see much higher boost than 0.7 bar anyways. These stock capsules differ quite much, a few cannot even hold 0.6 bar, some others are capable up to 0,8 bar ... They are actually acting like a fuse ...

You see, if you install #3 without changing the capsules you will most likely end up somewhere around 0.7-0.8 bar max boost.

IMHO its very safe to run #3 on a bone stock V8 engine.

Yes, of course the A/C will be active with all the chips, no problems here.

The boost restrictions in the gears 2,3,4,5 are removed with chips #0,1,2.

With #3 all restrictions are removed.

If you plan to imstall a boost controller, you can use almost every type which is on the market (Blitz, Greddy ...) . Of course the behaviour is differnet between the controllers ... I personally like the Greddy products, especially the older ones.

If I were you, I would install #3 without an additional boost controller.

Cheers

Marcus

Not so much confused as spoilt for choice ! You say that you would not recommend increasing boost pass 0.85 in a stock engine and yet #3 goes to 0.9 and sometimes 1.0. Does this mean that you could set #2 to behave loke #3 by setting the boost at 0.9.

I would like the idea of yet another gadget in the cockpit... but would not want to fiddle with a setting every time I wanted to overtake a long wagon.

Does the ACU mode still work in set #2?

What form does the boost controller take (appearance, size etc. and how easy is it to fit ?)

I see above that someone asked about first gear. Do chips #2 and #3 give full boost in all 5 gears or not? My first gear is now totally different to the stock item and is more like second gear used to be. It is almost impossible to provoke all but minimal wheelspin, even in the wet (I also have a Quaife LSD) So would it matter?

I am torn between #2 and #3 as I want as much acceleration as I can get but without risk to the engine. I plan to keep the car for a long time and use it as my daily transport.

Edited September 23, 2007 by Paula&Marcus

[toyroom 5]

My concern was that it said on the website you would not recommend higher than 8.5 bar for the stock engine, but the #3 goes up to 0.9 bar or higher. I suppose that, besides this, what I am saying is: What does #3 do that #2 doesn't? If I were to fit#2 and set the boost limit to 0.9, what would be the difference from the #3 set with this setting ?

The ACU question was about the air con shutting down for brief periods when the load on the engine is greatest.

One other thing. Where do the chips actually go, how many soldered connections are there and what are they soldered to ? How long would it take to fit them to the ECM ?