Engine Start switch - wiring

[madmezza]

Right. My next hairbrained scheme to add some kind of electronic modification to my Esprit - an Engine Start switch on a carb'd Giugiaro.

First off, I realise that you'll have to hold it down while playing with the gas and keep repeating it etc etc as the car doesn't have an EMS, but I still think it would give me two things: (a) a kewl button and (B) the ability to completely remove the ignition key and have an RFid (or equivalent) system for keyless entry and start.

Now for the questions. I've only just started thinking about this so I might be asking silly questions.

(a) the ignition switch has 4 positions: off, acc, the next one, and starter motor. Can anyone tell me if, as you turn it through each position, the last one stays connected? So, at ACC position, the ACC circuit is live. As the 2nd position both the ACC and everything else is live etc.

(B) Has anyone else done this? Did you have any problems? Any hints or tips...?

Cheers everyone

Rich

[Guest teigan]

you have the switch wiring correct. i wouldn't eliminate the key. it makes a good backup should your electronics rebel. a fingerprint reader would be an efficient way to start the car. i would still require the key be in position for ignition to happen. that would deter crooks from stealing your finger.

[s4simon]

I did it on my S4 - Pretty easy.

Wrote a quick instal write up for the button.

Starter Button

[diasafe]

havnt done it to my esprit but works ok on my buggy !!

1/ is the steering lock

2/12v to the coil

3/ starter

i didnt use one of those expensive starter buttons just a big rubber number with a relay to proect it .

paul

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

Its a doddle to knock a functioning starter button up - just bridge the Starter motor positions in the ignition Admittedly you will still need the key etc and could just continue the half a degree turn onwards to start it up....

....but it would work and look cool / be fun

Read Simon's install

EDIT!

Simon - I've just re-read your guide...

Is there any reason why it is that 'complex'? Why could one not simply wire an external switch across the two wires which the ignition key connects in the start position?

[s4simon]

I believe wiring straight across the switch burns it ( the switchy thing) out real quick.

That's why the slick looking starter button is only a micro switch which is then linked to the heavy duty relay to tackle the current.

I'm sure you could find a simple robust push button that could be wired straight across the ignition.

I did find the installation of my starter switch very straight forward and had no difficulties with the wiring what-so-ever.

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

Ahhh that makes sense, thanks

Why does it need wiring to the Acc position too tho?

[s4simon]

When the key is turned to Acces. there is constant backlighting on the button. (So you can see it at night B) ). Which means it isn't wired into the lighting circuit. Smart thinking cos at night you want to be able to find the button - to start the engine - and then switch on your lights.

These Jap guys think of everything.

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

Ahhhh.. but that's the only reason for it?

I wondered what it had to do with bridging the starter bit

nice touch... but what colour backlight? Did it look like it could be prised open and replaced with a different colour? Presumably it's just some kind of led?

[s4simon]

Back light is RED of course.

Sorry bout the poor image - It's hard to take a photo in the dark with no flash B)

Could not see any access to the globe / led when I installed the bugger. Must be a rear entry

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

How rude! :P

That's fine - red works for me as my car's interior is red I'm still considering this mod

Who was it who made the metal fan and aircon switch panel?

[s4simon]

The Honda S2000 Type are readily available on Ebay.

Start Button For Sale

Don't know what the cost would be if you bought direct from a Honda dealer.

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

50 squids?! That's more than I was execting for a mere button! lol

Maybe I'll trawl the RS catalgogue

What did you pay for yours (if you dont mind me asking?)

You said you took the 12V from your lighter... our older cars don't have a lighter socket down there... Would it theoretically be ok to just fly copies of the two wires from "Ign" in the the ignition barrel? (oh, and the Acc too of course!)

[s4simon]

45 Calamaris for my kit

The same kit seems to be cheaper in the US - around 30

It wouldn't matter where you grabbed the power from. From memory you need 4 wires: Const 12v / Ground / Ignition / Accessories.

My kit came with wiring instructions for the Stevens Lotus Esprit (which was handy).

I actually went thru the RS Catalog as well. All a bit nasty. I really needed the real thing with the words ENGINE START.

Ebay has a few on offer at varying prices - from a tenner up to fifty. Just search for 'Start Button'.

It's one of those things that Lotus should have fitted as standard, much like a Sports Exhaust.

[dannyslice]

Hi

I've had loads of experience in replacing and fitting start switches on various cars. The golden rule is to remember how much current is drawn through the existing switch your replacing, in this case the igition switch.

To remove the ignition switch completely you will need a minimum of three automotive standard din type relays, normally with a current handling capacity of 70ADC and inrush current of 140ADC. Thats the easy bit, the hard part is to figure out a way to energise the relays in the sequence replicating the ignition barrel and harder still how to do it so it doesn't make the vehicle easier to steel.

Finger print recognition can be used to give you ignition say, then the start button to crank the engine, you may need an engine stop button somewhere or press the finger print system again to cut ignition. Something I've never tried but should be a doddle to implement.

I've designed an electronic keypad system that removes the whole switch and you use a keypad with pin number to start the car. With the switch and wiring removed from the steering column a common thief wouldn't have a clue how to hot wire your car. With the added protection of a snap off steering wheel then your talking total protection.

I've also interfaced my existing alarm with my keypad system so wakes up on door entry or remote unlock. It's only a one off at the moment though. I've got it running in my Esprit and is the nuts. All I have on my keyring it an alarm remote, nothing else.

Cheers

Dan

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

That sounds very fancy and super duper!

[hilly]

I am also considering something along these lines as well.

It helps that I work for a RFID company so have a endless supply of tags and readers so security is not an issue (better than a key infact)

You have to be careful that anything you fit is safe and reliable as you don't want it cutting out all the time.

If I get around to fitting something then I'll post the details.

[madmezza]

I am also considering something along these lines as well.

It helps that I work for a RFID company so have a endless supply of tags and readers so security is not an issue (better than a key infact) 

You have to be careful that anything you fit is safe and reliable as you don't want it cutting out all the time.

If I get around to fitting something then I'll post the details.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Hilly

I was thinking originally of RFID. Can you give me any tips - e.g. range of the tags, cost of transcievers, where I can get them etc.

For something cheaper I was wondering about the Dallas 1-wire laser etched keys, but it would be really nice not to have to do anything once in the car other than press Start!

One other thing I'd read about was Bluetooth to, say, a mobile. Then you can have a Java app on the mobile to validate you. But I can see problems with that (e.g. mobile goes flat, lose the mobile etc.etc.etc)

[hilly]

Hi Madmezza

I'll try and keep this short as this could get complicated.

RFID tag tend to fit into 2 catagories, near field and far field

Far feild systems can have a range of several metres and use frequencies in the high MHz range (>900MHz). These tend to be active tags (have an internal battery and hence bulky) but there are a few passive systems out there.

Near feild is more common currently and have a range of only a few inches. They work at 13.56MHz or 125KHz an are normally passive, ie the tag is self powered with no battery and hence can be quite small. Car key fobs and pet ID tags are common places where you will find these. Without going into too much detail the range is determined by reader and tag coils size, bigger the coils the longer the range.

Because RFID is a relatively infant technology you may find it difficult to find a source for tags and readers. If you are any good at electronic design you may be a get some cobbled up, if not forget it as there is no off the shelf stuff currently out there. If I do end up getting somewhere this project it will be a personal custom design using components now yet available to the public.

The Dallas I keys are a good product but as you say, you need to physically touch them to a connector. Also you will still need design skills to get it to work as a igniton switch.

If you are still interested in this then get in touch and I'll give you more info.

Andy