free hit
counters
Calling All Brake Gurus - Page 13 - Suspension/Brakes/Wheels/Hubs/Steering/Geo - The Lotus Forums #ForTheOwners Jump to content


Calling All Brake Gurus


Recommended Posts

Even if you were running the Delco set up but just disabled the ABS side of it, by removing the sensors and feeding the wire looms back through and out of site, there is nothing under the front to suggest an ABS system is there. There is no traditional block that the brake lines go into, so visually no one except maybe an Esprit-wise person would be able to see any different. Even the brake booster cylinder assembly looks like a chunky brake master cylinder, the ABS pump relay that sits next to it could be a relay for anything, as theyre located in that area on the stalk, and the actual ABS ECU is on the opposite side, which even with the cover removed looks just like an engine ECU...

And this is how mine runs...and the tester didnt bat an eyelid...bulb in the dash removed too so no sign of anythin except a normal brake system. Ok so the ABS ring is still there, but then again ABS could have been an option on this type of car..there arnt that many around for testers to regularly get under a selection of them to gain any insight....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...

Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

Hello all!

 

After hybernation my SE has also this faulty Delco-ABS/ABL-pressureswitch , no brake assistance! :realmad:  I tried the cleaning proceedures as recommended here, no results. The switch still does not engage the pump relay (measured with a working multimeter)  Now I want to buy a compatible switch, any ideas where to get from (should be a plug and play solution). As an alternative, did anybody know , if there is a solution on the market with Standard brake master and servo? Thx for replys

 

Andre

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You've got an SE with ABS? 

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to LEW models guide on the SE ...

 

"it is worth emphasizing that anti-lock brakes did not become available, optionally or otherwise, until the autumn of 1990"

 

As regards a solution, knowing what I know now, I'd be getting my name down for one of Darrens (dodge1979) new kits when they are available. This thread is really worth the read from start to finish if you want to make your mind up on the best way to sort your brakes out.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its been a while since I have read this thread and I sold my S4s a while ago now with the Delco set up removed. I thought I would just re cover some points that keep re occuring on this thread.

 

Removing the Delco system has no bearing on your MOT unless you go to an MOT station who does not opperate and fully understand the guide lines laid down by the authorities. I spoke on a number of occaisions with the DVLA at local and national level about this before removing my Delco system. My insurance company were maid aware of the removal of the system and they were not bothered as long as the car passed an MOT. You MUST remove any parts that would identify the car as having had ABS. In the Esprits case that is the ABS bulb and very little else, in other cars that would be the ABS pump and bulb. The wheel sensors etc could be part of a traction control set up etc so no need to remove these.

Going to standard brakes transforms the braking on the Esprit so why stay with the old obscure, over complicated, obsolete Delco set up.

I have seen a few late spec SE's with the Delco system fitted.

 

Cheers Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Bibs!

 

If you mean, the Delco ABS in (translated in english, I think? =  Anti Brake Lock?) which is installed in my SE is never a well working system, ok - you are right :-(  I had the troubles since I bought the car in 2005!) Or want you to say that an SE with ABS/ABL is such a rare thing? If you know someone who can supply a working pressure switch or a solution with servo and brakemaster cyl  pls let me know!

 

Thx and best regards  Andre

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

If you want rid of the Delco system fit a standard SE Master cylinder and Servo. If you read this thread from start to finish you will see Martin L and myself addressed this issue a couple of years ago working in tandem coming up with 2 different solutions to the problem. Ditching the Delco transforms the brakes.

 

Bibs what happened to Lotus sourcing a new pressure switch?

 

Cheers Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brian Angus left, project canned.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

The earlier cars like my 89SE without ABS, did not have a proportioning valve.  Not sure whether you will need one or not, since you are using the Toyota MR2 master.  I would start without the rear proportioning valve, and then add an adjustable one later if needed.

Travis

Vulcan Grey 89SE

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I'm working on a solution to the Powermaster problem that may be a much better alternative. I'll not say too much until I know it works.

 

Can anyone help with a Powermaster data sheet or just the info on the 3 fitting sizes and thread pitches? It seems that they are different from each other. I could eventually measure them, but if someone has the data I will be able to move this along quicker and maybe have a solution to share.

Is your seatbelt on? I want to try something

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Red? You bought Jonno's Esprit!?

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:thumbsup: Congratulations :)

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Hi, I've been weighing up whether to persevere with my original Delco brakes which are again throwing up an intermittent flashing ABS light so I've been reading this thread in order to see what I need should I decide to ditch it & covert it to a servo set-up.

I'll obviously need a brake servo which I understand is the same as a Renault Extra van so this is no problem. I've been unable to source a mounting bracket from an SE but although it would make things easier I'm sure I can fabricate one.

The queries I have are -

1) Can anyone confirm the master cylinder / reservoir is from a 1980 - 92 VW transporter as the only pictures I can find look like a different reservoir to pictures in this post ( Felix & Nicola conversions )

2) It seems some versions of the T2 master cylinder have a hydraulic brake switch, has anyone used this instead of the stupid electrical one fitted to the brake pedal ?

3) I understand I will need a push rod from the SE as my S4s one will be a different length (?) again, I've been unable to source one, how easy / difficult would it be to make one or modify mine ?

Many thanks in advance.

Regards, Phil.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Phil,

 

Give me a call.

The reservoir if I remember correctly is off a Ford Transit. I will dig out the U/S SE replacement master cylinder I have and try and cross ref this week end to let you know which T2 the master cylinder is from. I cannot remember exactly but I think the S4s push rod is longer than required and can be shortened.

 

Try Norman at NTC Dartford for second hand bracket servo etc.

 

Cheers Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Mike,

 

When's the best time to call you ? I'm away from tomorrow until Sunday evening so let me know when's best for you after then.

I would appreciate if you could find out which master cylinder & reservoir I need as there are so many listed for the T2 transporter & the reservoir fitted to the T2 doesn't look like the pics people have posted but from what you are saying is the transit reservoir fitted the T2 master ?

It would be good if I know the pushrod can be modified as that & the bracket are probably the hardest things to get hold of.

I've ( hopefully ) sourced a servo for a good price ( new old stock from a Renault Extra van ) as you've suggested.

I'll give NTC a call as they don't appear to have a website or email address.

 

Hopefully speak soon, Phil.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

I wanted to add to this thread as I did some testing and gathered data on my 1995 S4s for the vacuum produced on chargecooled models.  I had my daughter watch very closely on a vacuum gauge tee'd  into the MAP sensor line and she wrote down the info for certain parameters I wanted to know the vacuum generated. The Esprit vacuum is not that horrible, and the UP28 Hella pump should easily pick up the slack with a vacuum reservoir and vacuum line running from the engine to the reservoir with an appropriately adjusted vacuum switch that has some differential in hysteresis for on-off points.

 

The readings that were easy to duplicate whiled driving around, with the car at normal operating temp are shown below in inches mercury (Hg). Weather was 84 degrees:

 

Idle:8"

Cruising at 2000 rpm, let off gas completely in 4th or 5th: 13"

Cruising in 3rd or 2nd, 2500 rpm, let off gas completely: 14-15"

Cruising in 1st, 3500 rpm, let off gas completely: 19-20"

Hard acceleration, moment between shifts: 19-20"

Cruising steady throttle 2000 rpm or higher - 4th or 5th: 0" or pressure from boost

 

So as expected, once boost starts to generate/kick in, no vacuum,  In traffic situations of stop and go, 8" would be the max the motor could make unless some deceleration is involved from a high rpm.  I imagine that the Audi/Volkswagen models with turbo 1.8 and V6 models as well as Volvo's and Suburu's, have a similar vacuum generation, hence their need for the UP28 vacuum pump in order to have consistent brake assist.  The UP28 pump is used in many of those turbo motors.  With the advent of direct injection, vacuum pumps are needed for these non-turbo motors as well, due to less vacuum being produced and higher compression ratios.  The UP28 is now in many US Dodges and Chevrolet motors, although the Hella UP28 pump is made in Mexico instead of Germany. Not sure if build quality is the same but they are identical from the outside.

 

Only mods on my car is custom dual exit exhaust with magnaflow muffler and porting of the intake nozzle to plenum entry to smooth off the passage from chargecooler to intake plenum. My S4s turbo geometry/ECU programming may make boost come on sooner, so unchipped SE's with original turbochargers may actually produce vacuum a little longer before the boost kicks in.

Edited by Paul93Lotus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The system I fitted to my S4s was:-

1) SE master cylinder & servo (T25 transporter / Renault extra van servo)

2) Vacuum pump Hella

3) 3 non return vac valves from VX Vectra

4) 2 vac switches 1 to show a warning light if the vac was too low and one to switch the vac pump on at a vacuum which was adjustable to get the best feel for the brakes

5) Audi A6 3 sphere vac reservoir.

 

I will post the switch manufacturers details later. I used various diameters of silicone hose, Teffen plastic hose connectors/adapters & ran a length of copper central heating pipe from front to rear up the side of the chassis. The Hella pump fits best in the rear compartment next to the small vacuum pump for the heater controls this isolates the noise the pump makes. The Audi vacuum reservoir fitted nicely in the front where the ABS pump used to be. Martin L made a take off adapter for tapping into engine vacuum from the inlet manifold blanked port near the bulk head. I think Teffen also do a plastic connector that will fit this port. The 3 non return valves were placed in line close to the sources of vacuum and the reservoir to maintain vacuum.

I made a small wiring harness from the low fluid level switch on the master cylinder / the micro switch on the handbrake  and the low vacuum switch. this allowed me to use the existing brake warning light on the dash to indicate if there was a problem with any of the systems. I simply removed the fuses to the old ABS system so no warning light showed and also removed the bulb.

 

Brakes were superb after this better by far than when the Delco set up when t was functioning correctly!!

 

I will try and supply more details of part numbers etc if I can find them.

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers Mike

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Hello i have a 1998 GT3 with the Kesley Hayes system. But

 

The "dreaded switch" that is mentioned.

 

May I suggest this as a possibility.

 

Use a Diesel common rail pressure sensor - lots of pressure headroom.

Some signal conditioning to provide pump on/off  switching at desired pressures with relay contact for output.

Low pressure alarm relay contact.

Analog scaled pressure output- to aid diagnostics.

 

 

 

Would anyone like to contribute a knackered switch so that a fluid adaptor can be engineered?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

okay guys I have read this whole thread from beginning to end...nothing really describes what happens to my brakes but let me explain.

 

I press the brake hard the brakes work, the pedal pulses then pushes down further as the car  pulls sharply, read off the road sharply, or into oncoming traffic sharply,  to the right...the abs light may or may not come on...

 

it is very very dangerous to drive it at the moment, it does exactly the same thing on heavy braking...

 

 

HELP..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Paul,

 

Your problem could be that a caliper is sticking, the pistons may be seized in their bores.  Or it could also be that you have brake fluid leaking, and either contaminating the rotor or pads, or reducing pressure on one side.

 

It could also be that your suspension bushings are worn out, and that bushing deflection, when braking, is causing excessive toe out on one side of the car.  Have a look at your suspension and alignment.

 

Since you have the ABS light on sometimes, then you should read the code stored in the ABS ECU, using Espritmon (free software) to see what the codes are, if any.  There are a few conditions with the ABS, where one front brake has an issue that the other does not.

Travis

Vulcan Grey 89SE

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...