free hit
counters
Fuel Pump Not Running When Car Warms Up (Sometimes) - Engine/Ancilliaries - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Qavion

Fuel Pump Not Running When Car Warms Up (Sometimes)

Recommended Posts

I think I'd better start a new thread as the old one went in completely the wrong direction.... :)

I had a problem where the engine would hesitate during acceleration... now it's cutting out completely. It will restart after a while.

When it stops, the engine will turn over, but it just won't fire up.

In the latest incident, I was kinda ready for it (although I didn't have Freescan running at the time, I plugged it in after the event). No faults shown, however.

I noticed that the fuel pump wasn't priming (2~3 seconds) this time, so I'm going down that line of investigation. I see a note in the manual that says the ignition must be off for 10 seconds before you try priming the pump again (I'm fairly sure I did).

Using the Chart EMH. 4-3 in the manual for "ENGINE CRANKS BUT WON'T RUN - 2.2 INTERCOOLED LOTUS ESPRIT"

1) Fuel Pump and ECM fuse OK? - YES

2) Fuel Quantity OK? YES (put half a tank of gas in 10 minutes before)

3) Ingition on, throttle closed:

Check Engine light should be ON - YES

If Tech 1 indicates "NO ALDL" see chart EMH 4-2? I assume the ALDL was ok, because Freescan was working.

TPS Signal voltage should be about 0.45 to 0.65 = YES, 0.65 (according to Freescan)... I changed the TPS last week as part of faultfinding.

Coolant Temperature should be between -30C and 100C = YES (95C)

Check Reference Pulses or Crank rpm while cranking engine. If "NO" reference pulses or rpm is "0", begin at step 10 on chart EMH 4-3 p3/3

... Not sure where I get this data from. The only reference to cranking on Freescan was "Crank Sensors". With the car operating normally, the display seems to cycle 0, 1, 2, 0, 1, 2.. or something like that.

Continuing....

Disconnect 5 term.inj harness connector and connect injector test light TOOOOY09000 with test adaptor TOOOT0930 between cavities "E" and "A" on the ECM side of harness.

... unfortunately, I don't have a test light... so I could go onto the next step of faultfinding.

I did look at the chart blocks below this, but just made random checks.

The injector resistance checks were a tiny bit high, for individual injectors (2.3 Vs 2.1 ohms) and injector pairs (1.2 Vs 1.5ohms). The injectors are brand new, but the individual injector resistances were comparable to the old injectors.

Although the fuel pump was changed about 10,000km/7 years ago, I'm starting to think it is either this.. or the ECM. I've just about changed everything else in the last month or so (spark plugs, ignition leads, coil pack, fuel filter, injectors, fuel pump fuse, fuel relay,....).

Note that the fuel pump draws 6.5 amps when priming.. and 6.9 amps when the car is running.

People suggested that the tanks might be developing a vacuum, but when I take off the tank caps, there is no hissing sound. I looked into the Evaporative Emission Control System, but I don't know how to check the solenoid on the charcoal canister. I thought Freescan might tell me what the duty cycle on this was, but I can't see this parameter.

NotWorking.JPG

Any suggestions on what to do next?

Thanks!

Cheers.

Ian

P.S. By the way, will a fault with the flywheel sensor cause the fuel pump not to run?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

:) Ian,

Have you contacted Guru Dermot or Guru Marcus?

They will help you i'm sure?

I, on the other hand cannot :) apart from provide these links:

See http://freudhoefer.de/lotus/esprit/ for Marcus at PUK and http://www.lotusesprit.org for Dermot.

Rog

Edited by SE Owner :-D

2009 World Singstar Champion

No I don't like the Europa, Evora or Exos.

"Like a cockmonkey with 3 cocks."

SLEG_Rog.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

could be a crank sensor fault. seen it before. do you get the crank sensor part in freescan doing something when cranking. mine certainly does something when its running, IIRC. its been ages since ive plugged the lappy in to it, but im sure it should show the sensor doing its thing. could be buggered or crudded up maybe? iirc it goes 0,1,0,1,etc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Check also the Fuel pump relay (located in engine bay relay box) !

Y.Hotta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
could be a crank sensor fault. seen it before. do you get the crank sensor part in freescan doing something when cranking. mine certainly does something when its running, IIRC. its been ages since ive plugged the lappy in to it, but im sure it should show the sensor doing its thing. could be buggered or crudded up maybe? iirc it goes 0,1,0,1,etc

I haven't done all the checks on the crank sensor, but it's showing the right resistance (about 1050ohms) and it still has its magnetism. I checked the resistance both at the sensor and at the plug on the DIM (coil pack)... .so the wiring to the crank sensor seems ok also. As I said before, Freescan shows, 0, 1, even 2. Perhaps it shouldn't show 2?

There were a few *tiny* metal flakes attached to the magnet at the tip of the sensor, but I can't see how these would affect the sensor.

Regarding the pump... I notice it sounds quite healthy when I first turn the ignition to ON, but sometimes sounds weaker(less noise) when I cycle the ignition OFF/ON. Is this perhaps because the pressure has already reached the right level, so doesn't have to pump as much?

Well.. the only things left in the system seem to be the pump (not so old), the ECU and the crank sensor.... and a few hundred other bits :)

Anyway, thanks for tips/links, guysCheers.

Ian

(edit) "Check also the Fuel pump relay (located in engine bay relay box) ! " Thanks, but already replaced (almost new) :)

Edited by Qavion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like fuel pump to me. They very often fail in a gradual way, if it's not functioning to full performance it may be able to keep up with fuel demand at ignition on or idle, but the moment you start accelerating or driving the load on it increases as the engine demands more fuel and it may not be able to keep up.


Regards

Mat

post-1-0302470001278592957.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hey Ian,

maybe an idea, i had the same problem on my 91 SE, wont start when car was warmed up (cranks but no fireing) . after months I found out that the reason was an after market alarm (piranha). I opened the alarm box (located under the abs controller) and cleaned all the relays with a special spray from my tv-mechanic. Since then all the problems are gone.

bye andre

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sounds like fuel pump to me.

Mat.. I've been reluctant to change the fuel pump, because I changed it only 10,000km ago (admittedly that was about 7 years ago, but surely pumps would normally fail because you use them a lot (???)). I might try rigging up an ammeter permanently in series with the pump (or even a light bulb), this should be able to tell me if the pump is getting power.

after months I found out that the reason was an after market alarm (piranha). I opened the alarm box (located under the abs controller) and cleaned all the relays with a special spray from my tv-mechanic. Since then all the problems are gone.

Possible, Andre, but again, the alarm is only a few months old. I had similar problems prior to installing the alarm. The problem is getting worse with time, however, so maybe the alarm has exacerbated it(?).

Anyway, thanks guys... I really appreciate your input.

Cheers.

Ian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Skip the crank sensor, it's working fine, the 0,1,2 in Freescan confirms this.

Skip the test light on the ignition module output, the 0,1,2 in Freescan confirms this as well...

Go for the fuel pump relay, simple to replace and often the problem.

John Welch

WC engineering LLC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The pumps don't degrade in an "on/off" way, more in a gradual failure, and yes they can go within that mileage. Proving power is getting to it and hearing it clicking is not a perfect way of testing it's operation at "high demand" situations. Only reliable way is to test fuel pressure delivered. If it were me I'd check the relay first as suggested above and if that doesn't solve, change the pump for a known good one. They're not too difficult to do.


Regards

Mat

post-1-0302470001278592957.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Go for the fuel pump relay, simple to replace and often the problem.

I guess you missed my edit, guys. Yes, the fuel pump relay has already been changed.

I'm surprised to hear the comment about a fuel pump failing in only 10,000km (6,000miles). What other car has a fuel pump that fails after 6~12 months of average driving? You'd have a recall if it happened to a Ford, GM vehicle, etc... .

Next time it happens, I'll definitely check to see if there is current going to the pump. If there is, then at least I know it's the pump. Really don't want to waste any more money.... I've already spent thousand$ on this problem :lol:

Cheers.

Ian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just in case you, if you need new fuel pump then check Lotus sales !

it was

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skip the crank sensor, it's working fine, the 0,1,2 in Freescan confirms this.

Skip the test light on the ignition module output, the 0,1,2 in Freescan confirms this as well...

Thanks, Squelch... This is great news.

Just in case you, if you need new fuel pump then check Lotus sales !

it was

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just in case you, if you need new fuel pump then check Lotus sales !

it was

Edited by Qavion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've pulled the boot floor out, but still can't see what the scoop does behind the right hand window (brake cooling?)

That scoop is your air intake, you'll find the pipes that connect to it under the carpeted panel inside that window. :D


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That scoop is your air intake, you'll find the pipes that connect to it under the carpeted panel inside that window. :)

Ahhh... I see. Although the pipe goes aft, it goes to an airbox and another pipe from the airbox goes forward to the air filter.

I thought the lower scoop might feed the airbox... but now I see it just goes inboard for engine(?) cooling.

Knowing this, it might not be a good idea to tap off air from this area, in case it interferes with airflow to the intake.

Thanks again.

Cheers.

Ian R>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you like you can delete the first airbox, it's a charcoal noise suppressor and you'll get better flow to the engine and also a superb whoosh, flutter from the turbo and wastegate. Details are here...

http://www.lotusespritworld.com/EGuides/EM...conversion.html


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you like you can delete the first airbox, it's a charcoal noise suppressor and you'll get better flow to the engine and also a superb whoosh, flutter from the turbo and wastegate. Details are here...

http://www.lotusespritworld.com/EGuides/EM...conversion.html

Interesting... I'd want to be able to return the car back to normal, so wouldn't cut the pipe, but the long pipe looks looks a bit squashed. If the Sport 350 is a perfect length, then I might buy that (if there is nothing on the market cheaper).

Do you know if the Sport 350 has a drain?

Thanks.

Cheers.

Ian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's only a bit of pipe, should be easy to replace should you wish to return to stock but of course it's up to you.

The drain was done by LEF member Travis and we had a discussion on here about it. I think the conclusion was that it was a nice touch if you live somewhere very wet but not necessary as unless you stick a hose in the air intake a little water won't be a bad thing, you can get aftermarket water injection systems after all and the turbo would evaporate most water into harmless steam!

http://www.lotusespritforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=13242


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
you can get aftermarket water injection systems after all and the turbo would evaporate most water into harmless steam!

http://www.lotusespritforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=13242

Thanks for the link... I was just worried about my new K&N filter getting waterlogged, but I see it won't harm it. Not that I intentionally drive it in the rain... but it does catch me out sometimes :sofa:

Cheers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...