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greekmix

S4 Not Producing boost over 60 KPA HELP!

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Phil,

Sorry for asking those stupit questions but I need to get this picture right in my head .. something does not make sence...

You are asking me to disconnect the Wastegate hose which connects to the frequensy valve solanoid.

Block the hose and leave the opening of the wastegate as is. The other hose from the solanoid is staying in its original position connected to the turbo housing inlet manifold.

Them idle the car?? how I am suppose to see boost of 1 bar is I dont drive it ?

Are you saying that the mechanical boost I can connected will show me 1 bar when the car is idling.

Edited by Kimbers - Mod
tidy post

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Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

Yes, exactly that, but warm the engine first and then sit in the car and watch the gauge while increasing the RPM's of the engine, just revving the engine while stationary in neutral.

Phil

98GT3

Edited by Kimbers - Mod
tidy post, please use add reply when replying to a post that is just previous, not quote and reply - thx

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Phil,

Just did the test you have asked for and the mechanical Gauge did show 1 bar as the car was reaving up to 5k. ( NOT DRIVING )

when idling the gauge is at 0.

Since I have replaced the ECM and the mem calm I suppose the next step is the frequescy solanoid causing this fault.

I believe the solanoid get a signal from the ECM but its not doing anything and it stays in the off possition.

Could that be right?

Edited by greekmixS4

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Bingo !

Phil,

Just did the test you have asked for and the mechanical Gauge did show 1 bar as the car was reaving up to 5k. ( NOT DRIVING )

when idling the gauge is at 0.

Since I have replaced the ECM and the mem calm I suppose the next step is the frequescy solanoid causing this fault.

I believe the solanoid get a signal from the ECM but its not doing anything and it stays in the off possition.

Could that be right?


Marcus

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.... as tried to mention earlier on, ( and I always do this, pardon me..) except that I mixed up vaccum and pressure lines !

That is what you get from not looking at the car for a long time....


Olaf S400 project www.esprits4.de

__________________________________

shapeimage_1.jpg

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FIRST DRIVE TEST

After replacing the Knock sensor, Frequensy wastegate valve, and complete ECM including MEM CALM, the car still did not produce the boost under load showing max boost 60KPA on the mechanical gauge the boost is still vending from the manifold through the valve and to wastegate so I asume something is still not telling the valve to close but it not the ECM since this is been replace.

Does anyone know what else is the ECM wating for this signal to be produced at the frequensy valve solanoid as I have run out of ideas.

I also did rev the car standing and the it did not produce the boost and backfired at the top end with no more than 60KPA on the gauge.

This does not make any sence whats so ever and any help will be appreciated at this stage.

PS: I will try to upload the freescan file on the short last drive I did..(the forum does not accept XLS files.)

THIS IS NOW GETTING OUT OF CONTROL!!! :)

SECOND TEST

This time I blocked the hose running from the Solanoid wastegate halve to the wastegate so I stoped the vending as it comes through the manifold via the frequensy valve.

Took the car for a test drive and I got the boost I always wanted intermitanly but it was there.

Does anyone have any suggestion to were should we look at next.

Remember ECM, Solanoid frequensy valve (wastegete) and Knock sensor have been replaced....

Edited by greekmixS4

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Tony,

Lets look at your problem more closely ...

You told us:

- the whole ECM is fine (OK, you are getting Wastgate DC cycles up to 93%)

- your wastegate-actuator-solenoid valve also is fine (its new, right ?) I also suppose you hooked it up correctly

- the mechanical part of your wastegate & actuator is also working fine (you proofed this by disconnecting the PRESSURE hose from actuator-capsule)

-> every single part seems to be fine, but it does not work !?

- what about the wiring between ECM and solenoid ? Maybe there is short or something else ...

- what about the PRESSURE hose/line running from the turbo outlet to the solenoid and from the solenoid to the actuator-capsule ?

Of course all this is only true if there is NO fault code showing up and no CEL is coming on. If there is a fault code and the CEL on, you will only get 0.65 bar anyways. Please also check your CEL bulb.

Cheers

Marcus

Edited by Paula&Marcus

Marcus

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Marcus,

Thank you for your help I appreciate your professionalism on this topic.

I am sure the solamoid its connected right since I have done this a few times now but I can send you a picture if you wish as to how it is.

The wastegate and turbocharge is new and tested with a mechanical pump and also set by WC engineering. I assume its ok!!

Wirring is something I am checking now and looking at the diagram on the ECM the connector J1A4 yellow plug makes connection to the solanoid I have also checked the 10A fuse and thats ok also.

The other pin on the frequensy solanoid is not quite clear to me where it goes as I am having trouble reading / undersatnding the wirring diagram to trace it out.

If anyone knows where its connecting on the ECM will be good help.....

All hoses from the Presure frequensy valve to the wastegate and to the manifold have been replaced no cracks there..

No fault what so ever on the freescan.

As you can see I am a little lost now

PS: I have checked the CEL Bulb this is the check engine light right? that works since I tryed to make some physical errors prior to see if the ECU is sending the right codes and the light on dash came up as the freescan also showed up the errors so Happy with that part of the car

Edited by greekmixS4

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Tony,

Please look at your diagrams in the workshop manuals. The pressure hose starts at the outlet of the turbo itself (Its part of the turbo-housing NOT manifold !) then runs to the solenoid and then from the solenoid to the actuator-capsule.

Everything has to be correct here, otherwise you will end up with quite strange boost-behaviour ...

Cheers

Marcus

All hoses from the Presure frequensy valve to the wastegate and to the manifold have been replaced no cracks there..
Edited by Paula&Marcus

Marcus

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Marcus,

Yes!!! here is how I see it.

The little black hose runs from the turbo housing which is connected to the chargecooler.

The black little hose connects to the top of the frequency valve solenoid. The other end bottom of the solanoid hose goes to the wastegate.

NOTE: during my test with the bottom hose to the wastegate BLOCKED the boost was not there every time, when I was on the gas full throttle the boost did come but intermittently. Should I have boost there everytime I am on gas?

Also what freescan was showing still a battery voltage that did not increase pass 13.1 volts. I believe this suppose to be 14 v at least..

The other issue I see is that by changing the knocksensor we got a better result knock counts from 150 down to 7 on idle and 30 when driving.

These two measurements are still not right and I am not sure if they will play a big role to the electronic boost signal.

Edited by greekmixS4

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Tony,

What you need to do is a decent Freescan log with everything connected up as it should be. Do 5 miles or so and in that log have some low speed stuff, some decent acceleration in say 3rd gear up to high RPM, and also a bit of motorway crusing speeds. Set it to take measurements every 1/10 sec (100ms), then post the log up here with a title something like "Low boost - need help reading Freescan logs" There are many people here very good at spotting if something isn't quite right.

There are many things that could be wrong and we can all make suggestions, but Freescan will get you the answers you need much faster.

Phil

98GT3

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Phil,

I have that logfile with all the latest updates installed in the car, However some how the forum is not accepting my XLS sheet. I have contaced Bibs for some help.

Is there anyone out there I can send this file and to try to uploaded?

Phil I am also looking at the CCT diagram and the valve is operated by changeover relay assuming the wiring and the frequency valve are ok the next step it to check this relay which operates between the ECM and Frequency boost valve solenoid..

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Hi Tony,

Have you tried zipping the file and sending it like that? Also I don't have a cct diagram, but I'm surprised that it is worked via a relay - if it is, then that would be a good thing to check.

You are welcome to send me the file and the cct diagram and I will have a look, my email address is on my member page.

Phil

98GT3

Edited by Kimbers - Mod

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Phil,

Looking at the diagram the wastegate solenoid is bypassing the solenoid relay (bottom lefth and side) of the diagram however I am not sure if this relay is faulty can take down the signal since the have a comment connection between them as you can see.

I have zipped the freescan but thats not accepted on this forum however the jpg of the CCT diagram is gobe through.

If anyone is kin to see the freescan file I just have to email them direct ..

post-2247-1206568793.jpg

Edited by Kimbers - Mod
tidy post, please use add reply when replying to a post that is just previous, not quote and reply - thx

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Tony,

You are right....... I don't have all of the information on that diagram to be sure, but it looks as though the connection you talk about is a common power feed to that relay and the wastegate solenoid. That relay incidently swaps power from the exhaust back pressure valve to the throttle jack.

Email me the Freescan log - my address is on my member profile page.

Phil

98GT3

Edited by Kimbers - Mod
tidy post

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here is another important information regarding the voltage we are getting on the Freescan which does not want to move pass 13.1 or so Volts.

I have tested the battery terminals showing at 12.5 volts when engine is off. However as soon as the car starts the volatge jumps to 13.5 Volts and stays there no matter how many revs we do....

Could that be a clue to the issue ? anyone with ideas please?

Explanation: Investigating my alternator I have come to the conclusion that it has been replaced with a Bosh unit which has a voltage regulator and that is the cause of not allowing the voltage to go above 13.8 volts or at least that what I can see.

However the ECM is happy with this voltage received and it’s not causing a fault as I first thought

Edited by greekmixS4

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BOOST IS BACK YEAH!!!!!!!!

I am not sure how to put this but before I explain what I found I want to thank everyone of you who put the time to reply to this topic.

Special thanks to Marcus and Phil who provided useful information to help me find the fault....

After 3 months of going backwards and forwards to the Dyno $$$$$$$ replacing the complete turbocharger including wastegate ALU Capsule two times over both times the product was adjusted and tested by WC engineering, I had mixed feelings from people telling me that the fault is with the last part replaced... we all know what it was!! ............after replacing the full assebbly the second time with a complete turbo which was bench tested as I was told the fault continue so you would normally look somewhere else naturally after investigatting the same part for the third time ....

Out of desperation before I waste another day to replace the turbo again and go back to my original setup as someone requested in this forum I decided to replace the wastegate ALU Capsule as an experiment and to my surprise THE BOOST IS BACK .. after 3 months of searching.

So now that we have got this sorted out I will go back on the dyno to provide some final results on the turbo upgrade based on this car of course and hopefully all the hard times can be forgotten.

I must say that this part of the upgrade cost me 3 times more than expected so for anyone out there wanting the same thing, make sure you get the right advice and most important receive parts that work the first time properly!!!

STAY TUNE FOR THE RESULTS.. after I go and see my bank manager once again!!!!!!

Edited by greekmixS4

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Tony,

Please use the correct terms ... what part exactly did you replace ?

- the actuator-capsule ???

JFYI, the wastegate itself is INSIDE the turbo turbine/exhaust housing !

Marcus

Edited by Paula&Marcus

Marcus

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Marcus,

The only parts I replace to fix this was the or what I call wastegate (ALU Capsule) this was replaced as a complete unit the turbo housing stayed the same.

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Do you mean the part on the left of this pic?

photo-3.jpg

I'm VERY pleased you've got it sorted out, welcome to the world of boost again :angry:


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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Tony,

Using Bibs pic, I believe this is what Marcus was trying to explain to you.

There's a good lesson to be learned here which I seem to forget a lot of the time too, and

that is that it's usually the simple things that cause the problem. Always check and double

check the simple things first. The wastegate actuator was mentioned as a possible cause very

early on in this discussion...

wastegate.jpg

Edited by lotus4s

1995 S4s

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I should have been following this thread a long time ago... Because you blocked off the line to the wastegate... you should have hit 30psi and blown up your engine if your wastegate capsule was functioning properly.


Modifying esprit's.. now that's fun..

PS... I AM NOT A CERTIFIED MECHANIC.. I Have chosen to help those in need, in the past and must not be construed as being a certified technician.

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Bibs and all.

This is the part I received with the Turbocharger which was supposed to be adjusted perfect for the application.

Well after many tests my opinion is that ... this unit is using a weak spring or was not adjusted properly the first place.

I must say I did not have a go at it because I was told not to touch it from the the turbo supplier.. after all he checked it two times for me. wow!!!!

I would like to know if anyone out there got one of those and got it to work!!

PS The original Unit which was put back to the car produced 1.21 bar of boost after my calculations from freescan using chip #6.

I will have a better Idea when the dyno run is complete next week..

I will report back for all to see..

post-2247-1206687144.jpg

Edited by greekmixS4

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Tony,

The actuator/capsule shown in your pic above is definitely not the type you want to have on your Esprit. What is shown here, is a double port one. The Esprit turbo should have a single port capsule with the proper spring tension for your application. If you use the wrong one (in your case it was the wrong type and this type usually has a too weak spring inside) that got forced open too early ---> hence no or very little boost.

Tony, please dont get me wrong, but if you had looked carefully at the diagrams in the workshop manual you should have at least noticed that there is one useless port (with no plumbing and no sense ... where to go ?) ... its just something that is not right for the Esprit setup.

Cheers

Marcus

Edited by Paula&Marcus

Marcus

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Marcus: Is that setup supposed to run one vac line before the throttle bodies and one line after the throttle bodies so that it opens with gear changes so as not to cause compressor surge?


Modifying esprit's.. now that's fun..

PS... I AM NOT A CERTIFIED MECHANIC.. I Have chosen to help those in need, in the past and must not be construed as being a certified technician.

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