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greekmix

S4 Not Producing boost over 60 KPA HELP!

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Hi Mark,

Of course, good point !!!

If there is too much backpressure, maybe a blockage (= blocked cat or partially closed EBPV) you will get a very significant loss in higher rpms. Interestingly these blockings donot affect lower rpms ...

Retarded ignition timing ? Of course, this may happen. I strongly hope he did an ECU reset ...

Cheers

Marcus

Marcus;

Is it possible that he has excessive backpressure from a turbo that's not spooling correctly or somehow there's something in his exhaust after the turbine that's causing the back pressure?

I also wonder if the timing has been pulled because of the knock sensor on the previous run and the ecu hasn't properly been reset?

Edited by Paula&Marcus

Marcus

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Marcus,

Can you or anyone out there please confirm how we do an ECU reset. As far as I am concern if I disconnect the battery the ECU gets reset ... please clarify this for me..

I must also say the Pipe from start to end is new only 2 months old and was checked as well.. If there was a block section on the pipe I shouls also be able to hear it ... Am I right ??

Edited by greekmixS4

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Tony,

The easiest and quickest method is disconnecting the battery (or removing the ECU-fuse) for a couple minutes. You can read this in your Workshop Manual Section EMH.1

Another smart way is to do it directly in Freescan. There are ready available erasing features implemented for the BLM-cells and the fault-code memory. Doing this will have the very same effect.

Tony, please dont get me wrong here, no offense intended, but you are fiddling around with your engine and Freescan and your Workshop Manual for many months now and you still donot know too much about all this ... how comes ? You should really follow my advise I gave you some weeks ago and read the Manual Section EMH.1 - EMH6 and "learn this by heart".

About a restricted exhaust path: IMHO you cannot hear a restricted exhaust path, maybe the sound is a bit more silent or a bit different, but you cannot say that there has to be a significant noise that is indicating a restricted exhaust path. The only way to tell how much it is blocked is measuring the backpressure. The method for this procedure is explained in your Workshop Manual Section EMH.6-13

Cheers

Marcus

Marcus,

Can you or anyone out there please confirm how we do an ECU reset. As far as I am concern if I disconnect the battery the ECU gets reset ... please clarify this for me..

I must also say the Pipe from start to end is new only 2 months old and was checked as well.. If there was a block section on the pipe I shouls also be able to hear it ... Am I right ??


Marcus

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Marcus,

Thank you for the tip once again.. I have read the section you are mentioning about.. As I said above I was aware of reseting the ECU by disconnecting the battery and sure the fuse is another way as you have mention. I was just making sure that is definatly the way.

I have also done it by freescan but I see no diffrence.

If you also folow the topic I am mentioning that I have replaced a complete ECM and tested all the chips from start to finish that we have from you.

Do complete this tasks I need to reset or disconnect the system from the battery.

I am at point that I need to make sure I am doing the right thing and provide accurate information to those who are trying to help including you..

However I dont have the tools to test the back pressure but I am seeing someone tomorrow who may be able to include this test for me also.

PS: I am not a mechanic as you can tell and I am also learning as you did many years ago. So for us new into this game we require clear information to complete the task .. I can teel you I am not the only one looking over the car at this stage but I am sure with the right information we will achieve our goal some times may take a liitle more time thats all......

I will post some news as soon as I have done the test requested... Thank you for replying so fast on the topic.

Edited by greekmixS4

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Guys,

My initial thoughts are getting confrimed as the second opinion I received from another dyno expert performance firm I visited today.

The tests performed today showed that the engine is not suffering from any timming issues, internal engine is found healty with no leaks, also tested the pipe pressure which provided a free flow reading at 1psi. Air induction was also tested and every part around the engine tested incuding fuel pressure, ECU, and wastegate capsule.

The outcome I once again received was that the turbo housing must have a fault. This is the news that I have received from everyone who has seen the car and worked on it.

After all the intial fault with the boost not been there was a part of the turbo as you can see from the post originaly, now that we have boost the turbo is not spinning to produce the HP.

They believed that the ball bearing turbo should spin after the engine is switched off but they did not see this happening so the are very suspicious about the unit.

The final test we have now to complete is to put back the factory turbo and test this myth.

This is going to be hard to take as I had every faith in the WC product but I am now having second thoughts about this unit.

This is now the second turbo we have received which behaved the same

Here are the results from this dyno for some to see.

post-2247-1207829297.jpg

post-2247-1207829420.jpg

Edited by greekmixS4

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Hi Tony,

Today we had a discussion here about your turbo-nightmare and we worked something out for you ... maybe you already know, because you talked to Steffen on the phone. If you like we will prepare a nice PUK Stage 1 turbo for you for a special reduced price and you should send us your WC-turbo in return once you have installed the original turbo.

With our turbo in combination with chip #6 you should see something around 320+ HP crank.

Just get in contact with us if you are interested in this option.

Cheers

Marcus

Edited by Paula&Marcus

Marcus

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Marcus,

Once we prove that is the WC turbo is at fault I will do something about it no questions asked. As I have people in Australia wanting results.

I am trying to stop sending back and forwards the assebly as I have done this with John a few times and has cost me almost another turbo in delivery. For you record delivery to US and back has cost me $700 dollars and I have done this four times now..

Steffen has suggested a solution which I will be happy to receive if the price is right please let me know what is your offer and please send me an email with what you believe we should do here.

I would prefer to send the WC turbo back to john and receive some of the money back if it does not work. this turbo own me $3.5000 plus so I need to make the right decision as to where its going to go.

I have to respect John's work and discuss this issue with him as well... if the turbo is at fault.

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John,

what Steffen has to offer is the very same I have to offer, because we both are working together ... ;o)

Marcus


Marcus

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Ok mate

I will wait for his email and more importanly the results from the factory turbo by next week....

By the way I have now done this turbocharger replacement a few times and got it down to 2.5 hours work including removing the boot floor.. No bad for a non mechanic experience...

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Very interesting dyno results... the AFR is bizarre though and the boost is peaky.... though I've never seen a boost related dynomap with that detail level before.... so it may just be the scale of the map. The turbo not spinning after the engine is shut down, however, tells me something is definitely wrong there. I hear Johns' turbo spool down a bit after shut down, and it's a WC turbo.


Modifying esprit's.. now that's fun..

PS... I AM NOT A CERTIFIED MECHANIC.. I Have chosen to help those in need, in the past and must not be construed as being a certified technician.

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Mark,

We cant hear the turbo spool down and I believe its litle hard to spin unusual for a ball bearing turbo but its not seem to be faulty. This is a long battle and I am going to find out what is causing all this?

Like I said in the past the fault started when the turbo was replaced..... This fault will stay in history if the turbo is at fault... a few days to go and I will have that result,

Stay tune...

Edited by greekmixS4

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Something does not look right with the dyno slip

how come torque and hp lines cross @ 3500?

sory,

my screen resolution is vary small @ work looking @ the wrong thing

Tony,

do u have a slip with the hp & torque #s on it?

Edited by Tony94S4

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Tony the previous Dyno test from MPC on this post comparing the two turbocharges has got the information you want .

You will also notice the car is running lean after 5k because of the standard fuel pump and secondary injectors. At that time it was an impresive car to drive this is the graph showing 247 bhp.... I hope you can work it out from my old post showing on a diffrent page on this post.

I cant wait to see what happens when I but a stock turbo back on.

The stock turbo is not all mine as the core section is coming form an SE model and I know for a fact the specs are a little diffrent between S4 and SE turbochargers. My original core was damaged on transit as what John has told me so this is not the same facrory turbo I had on the car which produced 250 BHP.

However it will prove a point I hope !! stay tune here is what the original turbo produce before I took it off with the chip 6

PS: BY the way I have used all the space available 1000k to UPLoad on this forum so I am not sure how I can provide more images for all to see. Can anyone who looks after this topic help me with this

Edited by Bibs - Admin

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88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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Tony,

even on ur web site I dont c any torque graphs,

u have the #s

if I am looking to purchase any

upgrade kits I wana c torque #s on graphs

as important to me as hp #s

even when tuning u cant fine tune without

torque graphs very important

just a tip

tony

Mark,

We cant hear the turbo spool down and I believe its litle hard to spin unusual for a ball bearing turbo but its not seem to be faulty. This is a long battle and I am going to find out what is causing all this?

Like I said in the past the fault started when the turbo was replaced..... This fault will stay in history if the turbo is at fault... a few days to go and I will have that result,

Stay tune...

Tony,

did u modify the oil feed line to turbo in any way,

if line has not much flow may damage the turbo,

also if line has to much flow pressure may cause damage

or slow it down,

ball bearing turbos they usualy need oil restrictors

not sure on wc unit

also after every hard run u need to let the turbo cool

down before u turn the car off or the remaining oil

will be toast and damage the turbo

hope u square ur problems soon

tony

Edited by Tony94S4

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No modification have been done to the oil feed line.

After all if the turbo is not prime properly or has a low level of oil feed it will not last long.

Its basic practice now to allow 3 minutes idling to cool any turbo as far I am concern...

I dont believe we have blow it up however there is got to be something wrong with its tollerance inside the housing not to produce the HP we need. But I wont speculate here lets see what we get with the factory unit back on...

I will try to get the other graph info you need at the moment we are not producing the power so let sort this out.

I would like to see 275 hp on the wheels and above for a turbo upgrade or an increase of 30+hp otherwise why bother!!

Lets hope we get a solution we want ...

Edited by greekmixS4

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Personally, I will be astounded if you got two bad turbos from WC. I know a lot of people who have them including myself and I've never heard of someone getting a bad one, much less two.... :welcome:


1995 S4s

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Tony... I know it's a pain in the butt... but you can simply to the math to calculate the torque: hp=torque*rpm/5252.... so torque=5252/rpm*hp


Modifying esprit's.. now that's fun..

PS... I AM NOT A CERTIFIED MECHANIC.. I Have chosen to help those in need, in the past and must not be construed as being a certified technician.

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Tony... I know it's a pain in the butt... but you can simply to the math to calculate the torque: hp=torque*rpm/5252.... so torque=5252/rpm*hp

Mark,

I think lots out there dont know the formula

plus makes life easier then doing the math

like I said just a tip

tony

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Dear all..

As promised here are the results from the report the experts have provided regarding the lost of power of 30 HP from our last upgrade.

Just to recup the boost fault as we point out on the forum earlier was found with the wastegate Capule.

The second fault as the car never produced the power as per factory setup was the turbo housing as per report below....

At this stage I need to clarify that the stage 1 and 2 WC turbocharges I received were complete units and had no parts from my original core of housing turbocharger. Both units were complete WC products.

Here is the report and if you are in Australia you will now find a turbocharger in my rubish bin outsite of my house........

At this stage for our customers in Australia who are asking questions I must say that we will continuew our search for the right product and I will be updating the group seperatly.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR INPUT TO THIS

INDEPENDENT REPORT

Problem with vehicle

Edited by greekmixS4

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If this is the case... then there must be damage to your turbo (i know how unlikely this may sound). I have driven Aerobats car plenty of times with the WC turbo and have had no problem with horsepower -- we raced a Ferrari 360 and we were nose to nose the whole time. You should really call John Welch and see what's going on... Something is not right in this picture. I wouldn't be surprised to see that there is something wrong with the cartridge that you are "band-aid fixing" with a larger A/R exhaust housing.


Modifying esprit's.. now that's fun..

PS... I AM NOT A CERTIFIED MECHANIC.. I Have chosen to help those in need, in the past and must not be construed as being a certified technician.

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Tony,

I hope you weren't serious about the turbo being in the rubbish bin but if you are, please don't throw that turbo away. I will gladly pay shipping and handling and some extra for your incovenience if you would ship it to me.

Thanks,

Jim


1995 S4s

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These reports have been communicated with WC and John first of all.

However its clearly that all the faults we had is from the turbo assebly only.

John has exhausted the level of support that he can provide on the subject this he has not offered to replace faulty parts what so ever eg: watsegate caspule and turbo housing.

I am a little dissapointed with the warranty received on the product and I will no longer entartain this product again.

I know some of you may not had any issues with the WC turbo because you may also provided your housing for this upgrade which bypass all the issues we've have seen on this occation.

In our case the turbocharger was a complete WC product as we did not request to provide a core unit as an exchange.. the results are clearly there.

We have suffered a fault cause by quality control of this item howeber this could be a one off case which can happen some times.

The solution is what matters in this occasion and this has not come from the area I was expecting.

Edited by greekmixS4

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Tony,

doesent wc use oem turbine housing bolt on aplication?

if not can u share some pics of the housing

thanx

tony

Edited by Tony94S4

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Tony,

I was told that the WC turbo is a straight bolt on unit and it was very simular to the original. I assumed that it was an OEM.

However going back to the installation I did I remember clearly two cosmetic diffrences.

1) the base of the housing could not eccomodate for the original safety pins or washers for the four bolts which holds the assembly to the manifold.

2) the outsite diameter of the WC housing was smaller than my original. This was discovered since I had to make up a special tool to get to the two bolts between the turbocharger and the engine. Putting back the WC turbo I had more clearance to get to the bolts since the housing was a little smaller. BINGO!!!

I thought that was normal at the time but now that I am told the WC housing is definatly smaller than my original unit it make sence.

I am getting the car back on the weekend and I will post this photos of the WC housing for you to see.

Tony,

I hope you weren't serious about the turbo being in the rubbish bin but if you are, please don't throw that turbo away. I will gladly pay shipping and handling and some extra for your incovenience if you would ship it to me.

Thanks,

Jim

JIM,

This turbo has cost me $4000 Australian dollars with all the delivery checking and all the rest. I recon I will put it at the front of my house to hit my self on the head everytime I come home to remind me of this experiment.

However is anyone wants it I will sale it for some normal price to cover the initial cost as I am looking now for the proper solution which will produce the requirmements wanted in the first place.

I dont think anyone will pay any amount $$$$ to get back no benifits as its proven during this post.

I would like to find a solution which will bolt on to the same car producing the power wanted, that way we will complete the experiment.

For the last 5 months the car or parts of it was under question, I think I have done enough to prove the cause of the fault but I am happy to go to an extra step to complete this task properly and prove 100% that the car as is can produce up to 280 BHP.

So beeing 4k over budjet I have to see my bank manager before I do anything else.

Edited by greekmixS4

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