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rogerch

Odd problem

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Went to start it, first time in about 3 days, nothing, the battery is only 3 months old, but is flater than flat, no prior problems it was charging fine.

The battery is definatly faulty, but, I have found a dead short in the starter soloniod, so there lies my problem, what suprises me, is that I would have expected to see melted casing on the lead from the battery to the starter, but it's fine.

I suspect it is this fault that has in turn shorted the battery plates. But this is wiered, any one got any thoughts or experience, I don't want to replace the battery and the starter soloniond just find it happens again.

Roger :P


Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

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I had the same problem Roger, battery flat in a matter of days and it was a new battery as well, what I did was have my starter motor re-furbished including the solenoid, got the battey replaced because it was still under guarantee and is working fine, also checked the earth leads to see that thye were still in place, clean as well, changed the battery connectors because they were worn job done,

Regards

Chris

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Went to start it, first time in about 3 days, nothing, the battery is only 3 months old, but is flater than flat, no prior problems it was charging fine.

The battery is definatly faulty, but, I have found a dead short in the starter soloniod, so there lies my problem, what suprises me, is that I would have expected to see melted casing on the lead from the battery to the starter, but it's fine.

I suspect it is this fault that has in turn shorted the battery plates. But this is wiered, any one got any thoughts or experience, I don't want to replace the battery and the starter soloniond just find it happens again.

Roger :P

How are you qualifying that the battery is faulty and how short is the dead short ie what resistance was measured and with what? answers to this may shed some light

Phil

98GT3

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I kept getting a flat battery and it turned out to be a faulty courtesy light delay relay!! I only discovered it when I changed the bulb for an LED one, and it started glowing all the time when it shouldn't have. (there was a low voltage permanently to the bulb that didn't show up with a normal bulb, but the LED one, requiring lower current, showed it up).

The moral of the story is.. something is possibly draining current. If you have an ammeter, connect it in series between your battery and the main lead and see what it's drawing with nothing switched on.

Other problem I had that looked like a knackered battery and wasn't, was a bad earth connection between the earth of the engine and the chassis. It had corroded really badly.

Check all your earthing points.. especially the chassis to engine one, just below the air filter box.

Edited by Glyn Harper

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The buzing sound from the multimetre, indicating a dead short across the battery terminals, same sound from the solonoid terminal and earth, isolate that ie go direct to alternator terminal no buzz.

I'm just curious, a dead short like that and I would have expected to see melted insulation on the lead, or even fire, but it looks fine.

Roger :P


Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

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Blimey - had probs with a 3rd party starter before - this is where car fires start !

Do tell me you're not putting an ohm meter (miltimeter switched to ohms) across a battery ?!

An Ohm meter puts a small electrical current through a device to measure the resistance, if you're battery is dead as dead (ie below 2V) then you will probably read a low resistance, almost short as the current is being boosted by the battery terminals - if the battery was charged you'd blow your meter up !!! (so get out of that habbit lol)

Yer battery is probably OK, sometimes the cells merge or one goes reverse polarity and reverse charges but I've bought totally dead batteries back to life before (the one in my GT3 has dies twice to 1.3v each time) but they tend to require a shock to start accepting a current (my charger can jump to 16v @ low current to do this).

Give it a go on the charger and see what happens - monitor the battery's heat - DONOT leave it on a concrete floor or something where the heat will sap away from it, if it gets hot, ditch the battery.

Only way to tell a battery effectivly is with a load meter or a volt meter - should read about 13.8v when fully charged, although anything above 13v is ok - not many people have a load meter so it's a bit pointless.

Also if you meter across the solenoid you will get a contact, about 50 ohms actually - thats the resistance of the coil, it's the contacts you wanna be looking at - it's not uncommon for relays to stick or fuse together.

Remember your Ohms law when questioning, I = V/R

personally from what you describe I dont thing the starter solenoid is faulty - if it was the car would try and turn over. The coil can't have gone short either because that is bought in by the ignition circuit.

Need more info really, what your metering, how and what reading - when doing solenoids make absolutly sure you're not metering the coil.

You are absolutly right though, a battery drainign in 3 days is a fire hazzard in the making !

Incase it helps mine was a short circuit in the starter itself, the permanently live terminal had corrosion on it to the case, I think the OEM starters (Lucas ones) are better insulated but give it a look - stick a resistance meter on the live wire (disconnected from the battery) to the engine earth and see what resistance you have....mine was as low as 30 ohms - 13V / 30 ohms = 0.43 Amps which drained the battery pretty quick !


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Draining a battery in 3 days will only require about 0.5 amp or so, which equates to about 6 watts. This is not enough to cook any wire on the loom, in fact it points to something like an interior lamp or something staying on - might be worth checking this out.

Phil

98GT3

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OK, got the starter motor off, the end cap of the solonoid was cracked, (looks like for some time) allowing the positive terminal to sort out.

Before I going getting this one rebuilt, in Australia remember, does anyone know if there is a bosch equivelent, I hate Lucas, there's a reason they're called the prince of darkness!

In the mean time, I'm just happy it's not a burnt out wreck!

Roger :P


Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

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Ha-ha - good job ! :)

Got any pictures ?

I must admit the Lucas one is better than the 3rd party one I had if thats any consolation - that could have been nasty if it got any worse, goon on ya for getting stuck in - a lot of people just subscribe to the "they all do that" and it's not the case !


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Too ashamed to take pictures, nasty, dirty, broken!

It seems there is no direct Bosch equivalent for the starter motor, but I did find reference to a Lucas starter with a Bosch soloniod, unfortunatly no details, any clues? (the starter motor itself seems good)

Roger B)


Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

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If it makes you feel any better, the starter is made by Magneti Marelli.


Visit Sanj's Lotus Esprit Turbo SE pages

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That raises an interesting question, it says it's a Lucas with the following part number 54292226 is this original, I have assumed it is, but, maybe it isn't.

Roger :blushing:


Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

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What is the correct part number for starter motor on an 88 turbo? I have got on the one I have out 54292226, but all my investigations lead me to beleive it should be 54293567, anybody know.

I'm having real problems sourcing either a suitable solonoid or complete replacement over here, people look at you sideways when you tell them what it is off.

Maybe I some one knows of a Bosch replacemnt, don't fancy the freight from the UK starter motors are heavy!

Thanks Roger :lol:


Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

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I'm still going on this one, how about Lucas part number S3116, make any sense? Still the same question i=does anybody know if there is a Bosch replacement? If I get really stuck, it's been off the road for a week, can I get a slonoid from anywhere. I'd even go the postage on a solonoid from the UK or US.

Roger :thumbup:


Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

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If this is any help for you, you might try contacting this ebay seller. I bought one of his starters for my S4s 4 years ago and still working great. Cost was somewhere around $160 US and he says in this ad he will ship anywhere in the world for $45.

He has starters for a lot of British car marques.

starter


1995 S4s

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Hi Roger,

I don't know if it helps, but I replaced my starter with one from RD. Very slick unit that bolted right in and I have never had a problem with it. http://www.rdent.com/pages/parts.html

Coming from overeas I was a little hesitant, but after I e-mailed them they sent me pics of the starter and a few phone numbers in Melbourne to call as a reference.

Iain

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What is the correct part number for starter motor on an 88 turbo? I have got on the one I have out 54292226, but all my investigations lead me to beleive it should be 54293567, anybody know.

You're in luck, I had one in my hand just now.

Lucas # 54293567 is cast into the aluminium housing behind the solenoid.

The label on the motor itself says Magnetti Marelli 26923F, Type M80R (1.7)


Visit Sanj's Lotus Esprit Turbo SE pages

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Thanks guys, I really apreciate that, I was having real troubble with this one, now I think I can sort it.

Roger :thumbup:


Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

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