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Help Required with 89 SE Gearchange Adjustment - Gearchange/Gearbox/Clutch - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
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Help Required with 89 SE Gearchange Adjustment

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Hi, folks..

I recently changed the universal joints and bearings of the translator assembly on the left hand side of my gearbox. I've adjusted the linkages millimeter/degree perfect (as per the manual), but am unable to stop the gear lever (rubber) stop pad hitting the metal reverse inhibitor block. In reverse, even the metal base of the gearstick is contacting the reverse inhibitor block (wearing away the block). The inhibitor block has been adjusted to the left as far as it will go.

ReverseInhibit.gif

When selecting 1st Gear, I have to hunt around to find the "slot". It's like there's a stop missing: 3rd, 4th and 5th are easy to find... The gear lever is sprung to the 3/4th plane, 5th gear hits the pivot section of the lower assembly, so that gives me a stop for the 5th gear plane, but selecting 1st and 2nd is like hunting around for something in a bag of marbles. The only thing that helps is the "stop pad" hitting the reverse inhibit block (but the manual says it's not supposed to do that).

MasterUnitAssy1.jpg

I notice that the gearstick base has two threaded holes for what may have been grub screws (?). If grub screws were inserted and adjusted, this would allow the gear lever to stop at the right positions for the 1/2 and 5th planes (but I don't see how you could select reverse with a grub screw in the left hole).

The gearchange has always been difficult, despite replacing the clutch cable. Perhaps something is missing/broken?

By the way, I notice that the translator (cylinder), when moved fore-aft has 3 clickstops. I assume that the cable/linkage adjustment should be made with the cylinder in the centre clickstop position???

Thanks for any insight.

Cheers.

Ian

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stop clicks?

Do you mean 3 points at which the translator on the gear change arm affixed to the gearbox becomes resistant to movement?

If so , change the bearings in it.

My method.

Once that translator rotates correctly, start by setting the rod between it and the mounting so that you have the right offset from parallel,

Then, with the correct cable attached to each side hole of that translator, undo the cable retainer plate near the gearbox, pop the cables up and out of the slots, from there work out the adjustment you need to achieve the correct position of the gear stick (central both side to side and forward- aft).

Adjust your rod ends to suit, put the cables back in the slots, see how that feels.

f it's correct, slacken the reverse inhibitor bolts, move it so that it almost touches the pip on the stick, then carefully select 2nd gear, making sure not to go too far left. tighten the inhibitor bolts, and check the settings.

Andy

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stop clicks?

Do you mean 3 points at which the translator on the gear change arm affixed to the gearbox becomes resistant to movement?

If so , change the bearings in it.

No, I meant in the fore-aft plane (no rotation of the translator "barrel"... so barrel bearings are not an issue. BTW, I replaced these anyway). Only the shaft going into the gearbox is rotating. The clickstops/detents are being generated by the gearbox internals.

My method.

Once that translator rotates correctly, start by setting the rod between it and the mounting so that you have the right offset from parallel,

Already done as per the manual (4mm offset)

Then, with the correct cable attached to each side hole of that translator, undo the cable retainer plate near the gearbox, pop the cables up and out of the slots, from there work out the adjustment you need to achieve the correct position of the gear stick (central both side to side and forward- aft).

With the cables disconnected at the aft end, the stick is naturally sprung-loaded to the 3/4th plane. The manual specifies 7.5 degrees fore-aft, so I set that up next... I adjusted the links at the gearbox allowing reconnection with no loading. However, the translator barrel has 3 distinct positions in the fore-aft plane. How do you know how long to adjust the cables if you don't know where the translator barrel is supposed to be in the fore-aft plane?

If it's correct, slacken the reverse inhibitor bolts, move it so that it almost touches the pip on the stick, then carefully select 2nd gear, making sure not to go too far left. tighten the inhibitor bolts, and check the settings.

The reverse inhibitor block is fully left and it still rubs on the gearstick pip.

I pulled out the gear stick assembly from the console and inspected it... Nothing obviously wrong, so I stuck it back in again. When I repeated the adjustment procedure, the pip still touched the inhibitor plate, but the gearshift seemed better. I used the translator barrel centre clickstop/detent as the reference point again for adjusting the cable length.

If the clicking is not normal, then there is something wrong with the gearbox :(

I did notice today that the (cockpit) gearstick assembly has an Allen-headed bolt at the rear of the clamping/pinch block. It looks like the angle of the pinch block can be changed. It looks fairly central at the moment, but if I tilted it a bit to the right, it would give me a little extra clearance for the pip, but doing this might affect the 1st/2nd, 3rd/4th and 5th plane alignment.

Unfortunately, I'm waiting for a new exhaust to be built and my turbo to be reconditioned before I can check it out with the engine running.

Cheers.

Ian

In reverse, even the metal base of the gearstick is contacting the reverse inhibitor block (wearing away the block).

I was able to solve this particular problem by squeezing the two pins at the rear of the gearstick closer together, this stopped the upper portion of the gearstick rotating/pivoting a little as I selected reverse.

It didn't stop the pip hitting the inhibit plate, however.

Cheers.

Ian.

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It is supposed to rub the side of the block, I wonder if you're trying to fix something that isn't broken.


Visit Sanj's Lotus Esprit Turbo SE pages

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It is supposed to rub the side of the block, I wonder if you're trying to fix something that isn't broken.

The expression "nominal clearance" from the service manual suggests a gap to me. Who said it was supposed to rub?

Dave Massey used these words, but I'm not exactly sure what they mean...

"The inhibitor block should be set so that the lever may smoothly be moved in the 1st/2nd gear plane without being obstructed by entering reverse gear territory."

Re the allen-headed bolt on the rear of the base... This allows the disassembly of the base. It allows you to remove the backplate which allows you to replace the plastic bearings and metal axle for the left-right pivot movement. It doesn't allow any angular adjustment however, as there is also a locking pin in the backplate which prevents its rotation.

Live and learn :)

Cheers.

Ian.

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I think the block is supposed to guide the shifter in the 1st/2nd plane, else why would it be machined smooth on the side and the gear lever stop pad fitted to the stalk? I could be wrong, but...

You do still have the pad, right? These are known to fail, leaving only a small allen bolt sticking out.

Edited by sanj

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It's been some time but from memory but I didn't follow the manual for setting the translator at the rear of the box.

I started from that translator. It's critical that its left and right arms are perpendicular when the shaft into the g/box is at it's mid-point of travel. First remove the two cables and accurately measure the sideways movement of that shaft. You can test that each of the four planes are being selected by sliding it sideways a few millimetres at a time and twisting it backward and forward to select the gears. Note reverse and fifth only twist one way forward or back.)

Now hold the shaft at it's midpoint and adjust the short link to the gearbox bracket to keep the translator arms perpendicular. Release everything and the translator will spring to it's static position of the 3-4 plane. Now follow the manual instructions for setting up the gearlever, re-fitting the cables and finally adjusting the inhibitor block.

I found that translator and it's adjusting link MUST be set perpendicular at the midpoint for everything to shift smoothly and precisely. It's a geometrical thing.

Also it is possible to fit the cables with the rodends either upside down or not to the translator. They should be upside down otherwise the gear lever has too short a movement forward and backward, which takes away the feel of changing gear. Some people like that short movement because it feels faster. BUT it's a good way to overspeed the work of the syncros and quickly damage your box.

Edited by DanR

DanR

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I think the block is supposed to guide the shifter in the 1st/2nd plane, else why would it be machined smooth on the side and the gear lever stop pad fitted to the stalk? I could be wrong, but...

You do still have the pad, right? These are known to fail, leaving only a small allen bolt sticking out.

Hi, yes, still there, just worn at a slight angle on the side.... and underneath where it runs over the inhibit block.

post-4257-1206568965.jpg

I don't suppose these are a standard replaceable part? I've seen kits for the moving parts, but not this.

Thanks.

Cheers.

Ian

It's critical that its left and right arms are perpendicular when the shaft into the g/box is at it's mid-point of travel.

Sorry, Dan... You lost me at this point.

Perpendicular to what? Remember that this is an older model to yours and the left/right arms/wings (if we're talking about the same thing) are angled as a result of the 4mm offset adjustment (on the SE, at least, with the translator on the left hand side of the gearbox).

Thanks

Cheers.

Ian

Here's a closer shot of the clamping section... The hole is not in the centre of the block (fore-aft). I'm just wondering if positioning of the hole in the S4 block is the same (with only the size of the hole altered).

post-4257-1206570881.jpg

Note that the brown marks on the block is not corrosion, but gum, I assume from either decaying foam rubber or perhaps the rubber lower gaiter (which I found was missing).

I bought a new rubber gaiter from Lotus, but Lotus really make fitment difficult. The gaiter is slightly undersized at the base, it has no holes for screws and the hole for the stick is way too small (I found it very hard to cut a perfect hole in a conical piece of rubber). The new pedal rubbers I bought at the same time weren't much better... one split as I was putting it on.

Cheers.

Ian

Edited by Qavion

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Perpendicular to the centreline of the gearbox. The translator has three arms. The ones I'm talking about are where the two cables connect. The third arm is the one for the short link to the bracket. Think of a force, the cables, applied to an arc, those arms. Both cables should be at 90 degrees in the mid position.

I've used this system successfully on both the early, yours, and later boxes, S4 on.

Edited by DanR

DanR

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Hi, yes, still there, just worn at a slight angle on the side.... and underneath where it runs over the inhibit block.

I don't suppose these are a standard replaceable part? I've seen kits for the moving parts, but not this.

I've never seen one, I made my own out of some high-tech plastic I had laying around. I eventually put in the S4 stick, which has a much better plastic bit attached.


Visit Sanj's Lotus Esprit Turbo SE pages

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Here's what I did for mine and 2 others.

http://vulcangrey.lotuscolorado.com/galler...bumName=shifter

I had to machine the guide block to make it smooth again, and make a new Delrin bushing, witn new screw.

worn

P5020221.sized.jpg

fixed

P5060253.sized.jpg

Before fixing, it was very difficult to get into second gear when in a hurry. The bolt would grind into the aluminum guide and just stop you from completing the shift.


Travis

Vulcan Grey 89SE

My Lotus Photo and Projects Album

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Before fixing, it was very difficult to get into second gear when in a hurry. The bolt would grind into the aluminum guide and just stop you from completing the shift.

Ouch... Maybe that's why they specify a nominal clearance :rofl:

I put everything back together in the cockpit a few days ago.. and it looked great... then realised I had forgotten to lubricate the reverse inhibit plate... took the rubber gaiter off, but dropped two screws into the underfloor tunnel. I didn't have a magnet small enough to fish them out. I have plenty of spare screws, but just wondering if it's safe to leave the screws there. I assume there are no moving parts below the gearchange mechanism.

Cheers.

Ian

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I’m having a total nightmare with this. Exactly the same symptoms as the OP. I can get reverse, 3rd, 4th and 5th fine (this is without the engine running) but 1st and 2nd are a bit fussy to find.

I’ve got it as good as I can after two whole nights meddling but 1st and 2nd feel horrible going in, once I find them.

This post is 10 years old, and although the parts we’re talking about are the same, has anyone come up with any newer methods of setting these things up?

My car is an ‘88 so the original mechanism. Although I have replaced that crappy ball on a bracket thing for the revised solid cross bar thing.

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Are you absolutely certain that all parts on that linkage are tight and not wobbling?

the bolt that holds the translator thing to the gearbox selector rod - that must be a shoulder bolt - a normal threaded bolt allows it to wobble fractionally 


Only here once

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I found that my clutch master cylinder was leaking and that made a big difference for 1st, 2nd and reverse once I replaced it.

I lost 1st & 2nd too. Turned out to be these guys got loose on me. (Although mine might be quite a bit different since it's a Renault and the previous owner flipped mine upside down to make a short-shifter modification)

 

IMG_1237_1024px.jpg

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The method defined in the book is the only method you need.  As Barry says, make sure all bits are as they should be.  An assistant at the gearstick is most handy.  What you're describing certainly sounds like poor adjustment.


British Ambassador to Florida, New York, Denmark and Newfoundland.  And Sweden.

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I did have mine upside down originally with the short shift mod but I’ve reverted that to normal now.

Barry made a good point though. I don’t think it is a shoulder bolt! It will be later on though. :)

I’ll see if I can get my pal who has a Lotus to help me or evening. It’s not a nice job to do on your own! :)

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Trouble with 1st and 2nd on their own is usually selector alignment ..   The reverse inhibitor has adjustment on the alloy block to the left of the mechanism .. If this is to close them it does not allow the selector to be fully aligned and it will feel awkward..  Any adjustment within the whole set up can make this go tight... Just release the two M8 bolts and move over the inhibitor block till 1st and 2nd slot in .... it is all in the book but does need a bit of feeling in as well 

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Thanks. I think it’s the feeling in I’m struggling with. I’ve been through the book so I know it almost by heart. Just doesn’t feel right though.

ive been rekectabt to move the inhibitor block as I don’t know why the setup should have changed that much from before I had the gearbox out. But I’ll certainly give it a go. Cheers. 

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Got it setup finally with the help of a friend. I just had to move the reverse inhibitor right over to the left as far as it would go.

I had my translator originally set with the cables on top in the ‘quick change’ setup, but have moved them back to the normal bottom position. I guess the extra movement this causes in the lever means the inhibitor also needs to be further away.

Clutch feels a bit spongy (new clutch) so I need to adjust the play in that tomorrow.

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if the bushings at the gearshift are bad (where the cables attach to the gearshift lever) it will move too far and contact the reverse inhibitor block as well as produce vague gear engagement.  I also did the short shift mod.  Other Esprit owners who have driven my car rave about how easy and positive all gears engage FWIW.


chris

90SE

just because I don't CARE doesn't mean I don't UNDERDSTAND

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Just how easy are those bushes to change.

I bought a bearing/bushes kit from PNM when I acquired my car last year because the gear change (compared to my old Excel) felt rather vague especially 5th and Reverse.

Seemingly all Renault gearboxes feel like this reading the various posts and as I also found on another Esprit that I tried at Brands Hatch.

I have however learned the controls better and no longer miss a gear, but know it feel that it could only get better with the new kit, but I've been too afraid to pull things apart while its working okay?.

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I changed the bushes in the front as well. It’s not a tricky job really. There is nothing at the front to adjust except the inhibitor block.

just take it apart carefully so you remember which bit goes where.

Is there a proper process for adjusting the length of the adjuster at the end of the clutch slave cylinder? Or just do it by feel. 

Edited by Glyn Harper
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You simply adjust it to the specified length.  However, it will do nothing whatsoever to change the operation of the clutch.  It's simply there to prevent excessive wear that could impact the flywheel. 

 


British Ambassador to Florida, New York, Denmark and Newfoundland.  And Sweden.

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