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Has anybody used Romulator?

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I've been watching a lot of the problems that have been occuring for Esprit owners with regards to turbo's etc.. and I'm wondering if anybody has tried to use the Transtronics Pocket Romulator ( http://secure.transtronics.com/osc/product...products_id/328 ) to tune their car. I've used it to build tune the 300zx that I built, and it's quite easy with the right software.

Now, the ECU is from a 1990-1991 Pontiac Grand-Am and the tuning software is available here: http://www.tunercat.com/tnr_desc/do_tc.html

Do a "search text" for "1228708" and you'll find it. Now, I understand the memcal is different for the esprit. I've never tuned a GM car before, Perhaps Dermot can chime in here to tell me if this is or isn't possible. When we upgrade injectors there are variables that change. One of the most crucial is the injector "Latency" which is basically how long it takes to open the injector. When you switch from the stock injector to a modified injector... this value should change and therefore the computer fuel mapping also should change.

The problems people are having with excessive modifications could be solved by re-mapping the system oneself. I know this solution isn't for everybody... but it would help. There are builds on here that seem to me have problems that could be better solved by re-mapping according to the car itself, not picking a chip that best suits the modifications.


Modifying esprit's.. now that's fun..

PS... I AM NOT A CERTIFIED MECHANIC.. I Have chosen to help those in need, in the past and must not be construed as being a certified technician.

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Jeez Mark, sounds like something out of Star Trek!


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http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

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I will come in here...

I have read extensively on this and I am a member of several GM_ECU forums. There are several software tools you can used in principle to modify the binary code. However, they all require an engine definition file in order to correctly deconstruct the binary file stored in the ROM. This is commercially sensitive information and the owners of various versions of the Lotus Esprit EDF have spend hours of their time reverse engineering the code in order to work this out.

My advise is to not bother and ask the experts. There is great potential for making major costly mistakes.

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I'm very much with Kimbers on this one so cant contribute directly, but for what its worth....

On our sister forum LEC, a guy called Alan (AKA "ESM") has done loads of work on this for the M100 Elan. He's produced a whole series of upgraded chips all properly engineered - not just switching off boost limits, etc. He seems to get huge respect on there, and certainly his chips are proven to perform. See his Web site http://www.astb91.dsl.pipex.com/MountainChipMenu.html or maybe the thread http://lotuselancentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4530 if its open to you.

Obviously the M100 is different, but it is from the GM era and Alan did the full decode thing on it before rewriting it in upgraded form so he would have the knowledge (tho maybe not the time/inclination) to help out.

Mike


Loving Lionel and Eleanor......missing Charlie and Sonny

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Thanks for the responses.

Dermot -- I think the Engine definition file is $8A for the 1990 Pontiac GrandAm and it's $19.95. From there I would download the information from the stock chip and apply it to the definition file. Theoretically.. it's all tuning from there.

As for the hours put in by the other poeple and companies on this forum... i understand the effort -- believe me. However, a map based ECU system requires knowledge of every mod that an engine has. For a few examples:

If the back pressure changes because of the turbo... the AFR will change.

If the cam timing is adjusted for better performance... the ignition timing and the afr will change

if the injectors are swapped with injectors of the same CC/min... the low rpm/low load will most likely change.

if the secondary injectors are swapped for larger cc/min injectors.. then that map has to be changed

There are plenty of other factors that would greatly change the afr (mainly) and the timing of the engine because of it running on a map sensor.

Basically... I'm mostly concerned about the thread http://www.lotusespritforum.com/forums/ind...mp;#entry166116

His modifications are limited to the chips available... and because he's upgraded to larger secondary injectors, he's dumping too much fuel and can't spool up the turbo, if he could re-map the ecu while he's spending $50/dyno run... he'd be done already.


Modifying esprit's.. now that's fun..

PS... I AM NOT A CERTIFIED MECHANIC.. I Have chosen to help those in need, in the past and must not be construed as being a certified technician.

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Mark -

I can only encourage what you are talking about. It is this kind of adventurous thinking that created Freescan, and later "tuned" chips from aftermarket suppliers. Custom tuning for your specific car is the only way to get your car's power maximized....and also the safest if the tuning is done carefully. It is impossible for a "staged" chip to get it 100% right ..as the mod path for each owner is almost always different, and the car reacts differently as you previously stated.

I believe when someone expresses interest in this sort of thing they should not be discouraged. I think Dermot is correct in expressing the downside to errors / being careful (as an Esprit motor is an expensive item to repair), but to refer to only a "couple" of select individuals as the only knowledge base regarding knowledge of the Esprit is a little close minded. There is not really all that much unique to the Esprit engine compared to other turbo cars on the market. Anything you learn will also be a help to the community. :o There will always be a market for "staged" chips....as there are owners that want something they can just plug in and know it is safe...but to get the most out of a specific car what you are talking about is the only way to go.

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Thanks for the responses.

Dermot -- I think the Engine definition file is $8A for the 1990 Pontiac GrandAm and it's $19.95. From there I would download the information from the stock chip and apply it to the definition file. Theoretically.. it's all tuning from there.

As for the hours put in by the other poeple and companies on this forum... i understand the effort -- believe me. However, a map based ECU system requires knowledge of every mod that an engine has. For a few examples:

If the back pressure changes because of the turbo... the AFR will change.

If the cam timing is adjusted for better performance... the ignition timing and the afr will change

if the injectors are swapped with injectors of the same CC/min... the low rpm/low load will most likely change.

if the secondary injectors are swapped for larger cc/min injectors.. then that map has to be changed

There are plenty of other factors that would greatly change the afr (mainly) and the timing of the engine because of it running on a map sensor.

Basically... I'm mostly concerned about the thread http://www.lotusespritforum.com/forums/ind...mp;#entry166116

His modifications are limited to the chips available... and because he's upgraded to larger secondary injectors, he's dumping too much fuel and can't spool up the turbo, if he could re-map the ecu while he's spending $50/dyno run... he'd be done already.

Mark,

Few years ago I checked in to it, back then the gm definition file would not work in our aplication

I think Andy was on of the 1st ones to retune the esprit ecu

http://www.andywhittaker.com/

he had build a definition file, wich was not to cheap don't know if he still offers it

and free scan developer

many thanx to him for saving us lots of headaces

and lots of respect

tony

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Thanks Tony!

It would appear that I'm on the right track. The links that I posted originally are to the same site that Andy has been using. However, the price of his code is... prohibitive. I'm gonna do a little more looking into if there is a more generic ecu code available. TunerCat, it would seem, should have the right code.. Hopefully this is the case.

I've got Johns S4 in my shop right now, but since it's for sale.. it's not really the place to start experimenting. I'm kind of hoping that Artie will take this idea and run with it. I may decide to put the GM system into my 88.. but I'm gonna have to find a way to source all the parts to make the system work.... i'll start researching that right away.


Modifying esprit's.. now that's fun..

PS... I AM NOT A CERTIFIED MECHANIC.. I Have chosen to help those in need, in the past and must not be construed as being a certified technician.

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I will come in here...

I have read extensively on this and I am a member of several GM_ECU forums. There are several software tools you can used in principle to modify the binary code. However, they all require an engine definition file in order to correctly deconstruct the binary file stored in the ROM. This is commercially sensitive information and the owners of various versions of the Lotus Esprit EDF have spend hours of their time reverse engineering the code in order to work this out.

My advise is to not bother and ask the experts. There is great potential for making major costly mistakes.

Paul

A word of caution here. I can't see the phrase "a "couple" of select individuals as the only knowledge base regarding knowledge of the Esprit" anywhere in the above post from Dermot.

Dermot gives greatly of his own time to help many of our users with for example freescan issues, and is regarded as an authority on this subject. From my perspective I see absolutely nothing negative or "close minded" in his words, simply advice, fairly stated from an expert. Please continue by all means to express your views regarding the merits of what Mark proposes, or alternatively express your disagreement with the views of others, but please ALSO be careful of misquoting.

Sorry for the off topic!


Regards

Mat

post-1-0302470001278592957.jpg

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I'm usually the first to discourage such an attempt. So I have to fully understand Dermot's perspective. The project size which I am proposing would be excessive, no doubt. I even concur that the damage could be gross. However, This is not my first "kick at the can". I know that my knowledge of this computer system is limited, but I had never even modified an engine before I built the 300zx turbo. It had custom pistons/rods and an unbelievable amount of custom fabrication to fit the T-70 turbo under the hood (about 400 hours to build the engine and fabricate all the piping/put holes in the hood for intakes etc...) Then, I had to learn to re-map an ecu... never did that before either... but it worked (I made lots of mistakes and over-fuelled many times... and had to fill the cylinders with oil more times than i can count)

I know this isn't a pretty sight... but here's the pics:

post-3007-1207718353.jpg

post-3007-1207718513.jpg

I know it's ugly... but believe me... it was a stupid amount of work... I'm therefore not totally convinced myself that I should undertake this project... Since my car isn't Ac/Delco... it's bosch.


Modifying esprit's.. now that's fun..

PS... I AM NOT A CERTIFIED MECHANIC.. I Have chosen to help those in need, in the past and must not be construed as being a certified technician.

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That last post of mine sounds egotistical... it wasn't meant to be... what I'm getting at is that we all have the capability to do whatever we put our minds to.. this forum is one of the best examples of that... there are some guys on here that have done some absolutely amazing things with their cars.... and most of them have not had much previous mechanical experience.


Modifying esprit's.. now that's fun..

PS... I AM NOT A CERTIFIED MECHANIC.. I Have chosen to help those in need, in the past and must not be construed as being a certified technician.

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Paul

A word of caution here. I can't see the phrase "a "couple" of select individuals as the only knowledge base regarding knowledge of the Esprit" anywhere in the above post from Dermot.

Dermot gives greatly of his own time to help many of our users with for example freescan issues, and is regarded as an authority on this subject. From my perspective I see absolutely nothing negative or "close minded" in his words, simply advice, fairly stated from an expert. Please continue by all means to express your views regarding the merits of what Mark proposes, or alternatively express your disagreement with the views of others, but please ALSO be careful of misquoting.

Sorry for the off topic!

I was not "quoting" Dermot....I am referring to this quote which I thought would be obvious....

"My advise is to not bother and ask the experts."

Which I think to everyone would be Marcus and himself. I agreed in what he said as far as tuning an Esprit engine could be costly if a mistake was made. I just felt that his comment was meant to discourage Mark. I also think that it could be interpreted as an insult to his inteligence that he is not capable of effectively tuning his own car, or coming up with an alternative way to safely modify the code.

Do you feel "My advise is to not bother and ask the experts." is not negative and fairly stated? Come on ^_^

I have never questioned Dermot's knowledge or his contributions to the forum.

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damn.. I have to stop starting threads that cause a stir... lol.

I've contacted the local GM tuner and all I need is the 4 letter code on the memcal.. if anybody has that off hand... it would help. If not, I'll go to the shop and get it from the computer in the s4. I'm fairly confident the memcal will end up being from the Cheverolet Beretta GTZ with the 2.3 litre turbocharged "Quad Four" engine.


Modifying esprit's.. now that's fun..

PS... I AM NOT A CERTIFIED MECHANIC.. I Have chosen to help those in need, in the past and must not be construed as being a certified technician.

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Mark:

Yep.. the romulator works great.

I've got a pair, one for the bench and one built into an ECM case along with the original ECM, work wonders for live tuning on a dyno...

I've got a .TDF for use in Tunercat and I have a ECM file created for TunerproRT

John

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Paul

Please take a few seconds out and reread your original thread and my post very carefully. Whether you were intending it or not your use of grammar and location of commas, clearly implied that you were misquoting Dermot. I accept you may not have intended to, however one of my duties as a Mod is to ensure fairness. You may be very clear in your own mind what you wished to say, but many others might have interpreted it the way I did. I had a duty to clarify exactly what Dermot said and I'm delighted you have now clarified your own thoughts. I was only doing my job as a Mod.

In my post I specifically encouraged you to keep expressing ANY views you may have, whether you want to disagree with Dermot or not was not my concern. You have every right to express any views you have (subject to LEF rules of course). It was the potential misquote I was concerned about.

If I offended you I apologise if you've taken my post personally. I hope after a moment of reflection you see my point.

Of course I only have an S2 so what do I know about these software code issues! You lot should all go back to Carbs!

Peace and love!


Regards

Mat

post-1-0302470001278592957.jpg

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Okay, I'll chime in here and take some of the fire out of this blaze. Mark and I have been talking extensively about looking into using Tunercat and a romulator to tune MY car and Mark to tune John's car. While using a series of pre mapped chips is easy and simple for the majority of users, both Mark and I have been modifying japanese sports cars for decades. These cars and computers(japanese) have a HUGE following and tons of aftermarket support, many of which involve standalone engine management in lieu of the factory ECM. When this is done with the proper knowledge and careful execution, 30-100 more horsepower can be realized from simple adjustments in the timing, fueling and boost maps. The beauty here is that this GM ECM is very common, Tunercat makes a program and system that we can effectively hook into this SE version ECM and "live" or "real time" tune these engines for smoother power delivery with few compromises like poor idle quality, sluggish throttle "tip in" etc. The main benefit we are looking for is to really see what the engine is capable of within the set parameters and really realise what can be done. We plan to report the results and use the knowledge to help out other forum members and Esprit owners. So as the original title stated, if anyone has had experience using the Romulator, please let us know. This is something that I will undertake alone if Mark decides not to take it under his wing. I know for sure this engine is capable of far better performance for the amount of build that Lotus put into it, it should be allowed to function as such with the benefit of more modern technology!!!!

Artie


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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Thanks Artie... I'm not sure that I'll be doing any mods to Johns car though... I haven't even suggested the idea yet... However, I do think that I would like to convert my engine to the GM system order to further develop my knowledge of this system. I really want to see a benefit to the people on the forum with the knowledge that you and I can develop from this experiment.

Edited by Mark T-C

Modifying esprit's.. now that's fun..

PS... I AM NOT A CERTIFIED MECHANIC.. I Have chosen to help those in need, in the past and must not be construed as being a certified technician.

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I will say Mark, that when going from the delco non chargecooled system up to the SE/S4 spec ecm and chargecooler it was like going from driving a volkswagen bug to a bugatti veyron! The Chip that JOhn sent me with his turbo(which I had on the car before switching over to the later computer and chargecooler, the thing FLIES! I haven't seen the Bosch system up close but would be sure it is a far more involved job than mine was just going to the newer ecm and wiring in the secondary injector circuits.

Artie


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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Oh yes... it will be a HUGE job... and I'm not even sure it's feasable. I'm quite concerned about the vehicle speed sensor and the crank angle sensor. The other concerns are that the injectors don't fit in the holes and theat they don't go deep enough for proper atomization. I'm also concerned about the fuel rail etc... but... we shall see.


Modifying esprit's.. now that's fun..

PS... I AM NOT A CERTIFIED MECHANIC.. I Have chosen to help those in need, in the past and must not be construed as being a certified technician.

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Mark, I didn't realise the differences were that great!


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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I've talked to John about this.. it's not that hard apparently... my two biggest concerns, wheel speed and crank angle, are pretty easy to solve... Thanks John!

So... I think I'll be converting to GM


Modifying esprit's.. now that's fun..

PS... I AM NOT A CERTIFIED MECHANIC.. I Have chosen to help those in need, in the past and must not be construed as being a certified technician.

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