Timing belt on an S1

[Hegg]

Alrighty, my next item of maintenance is to replace the timing belt and water pump on my Federal S1. I've got the manual and have read through it -- and it *seems* straightforward enough.

But, nothing is as easy as it looks. Access to the components and belts is difficult at best. It's also hard to even see the timing marks on the crank to make sure I'm at TDC.

Does anyone that has done this have any great hints to make this a do-able task? Otherwise, I figure I'll dive right in and make do the best I can.

Thanks!

[Guest teigan]

you need a 2nd person as eyes, so you don't tire yourself out climbing out from under the car every minute. also, bolts will stick causing long delays. plan a whole weekend. i'd help if you were local. it is an ordeal.

[GSimpson]

All weekend for an S1. Nah. 3 hours tops.

Loosen the crank nut before removing the belt by putting a suitable ring spanner on it, wedge against chassis and turn starter with key. Naturally disconnect coil lead and work out which way the motor will turn to wedge correctly.

Most of the work done from above. Remove alternator to improve view then align marks. Watch for the spring when you remove the Tensioner......

Some useful advice here.

http://www.lotusespritworld.com/ETechnical/Cambelts.html

If you need more info just ask.

Graeme

[Hegg]

Thanks very much for the info! I was intending to do everything from below and was really getting frustrated just thinking about it.

I don't have a Burroughs Guage and don't know if I can get one here (Salt Lake City, Utah). Is there another type of tensioner I can use? Where can I get a Burroughs and how much are they? (Probably more than the timing belt, I'd presume.)

I can see the timing mark on the crankshaft, but can't see the timing marks on the cams. It's a really tight view with the engine in the car. Any suggestions for that, or if I just turn to TDC, do I even need to care about the cams? (unless I accidentally move them, of course)

Is replacing the belt fine, or should I replace the tensioner as well?

Oh, and thanks for the great link as well!

[USAndretti42]

I can see the timing mark on the crankshaft, but can't see the timing marks on the cams.  It's a really tight view with the engine in the car.  Any suggestions for that, or if I just turn to TDC, do I even need to care about the cams?  (unless I accidentally move them, of course)

Is replacing the belt fine, or should I replace the tensioner as well?

Oh, and thanks for the great link as well!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't forget that you have to be on the right TDC. The camshaft marks line up only every other TDC as they rotate at half crankshaft speed. You could mark the cams with paint at the TDC you are at but you'll be in trouble if the paint comes off. Mark the distributor pulley as well to help reset the ignition timing. THis pulley may have to come off, by the way, to replace the water pump, because some engines have a water pump screw behind the water pump pulley and you cannot get it out otherwise. With the alternator off, you can do a lot of work, such as winding the engines rund twice before setting the tensioner, from above while sitting on the engine.

[GSimpson]

As the belt is only $US30 the Burroughs gauge will be much more than that.

Borrow one or judge tension by twisting the belt with your fingers. The correct tension can be judged by being able to twist it 90deg between inlet and ignition sprockets. I have done belts for 20 yr using this method without problems. Ensure you set the snubber clear before removing belt then reset to correct clearance.

The Tensioner.....The correct tension will be close to that as before so measure how much the adjuster screw sticks out before backing off. (fig 14 page 20) Replace idler bearing is probably a good idea. The 4mm pin thing was a complete waste of time on my car. I ahd to just let the spring go then tie the tensioner closed with a piece of wire until the belt was on. Measure the wire length to make sure you have got it all when you snip it off.

You should see the marks on the front of the sprockets as per diagram pg 19 of manual.

[USAndretti42]

The Tensioner.....The correct tension will be close to that as before so measure how much the adjuster screw sticks out before backing off. (fig 14 page 20) Replace idler bearing is probably a good idea. The 4mm pin thing was a complete waste of time on my car. I ahd to just let the spring go then tie the tensioner closed with a piece of wire until the belt was on. Measure the wire length to make sure you have got it all when you snip it off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I totally agree about the 4 mm pin thing. When I changed my belt I thought I had the tensioner locked but when I got it out I found the pin was behind the locking piece. Luckily a lug on the casting stops the tensioner wheel coming out far enough for the whole thing to fly apart. Then, when you put it back together, only Popeye, after a good helping of spinach, can pull that belt tight enough to take the load off the pin to let it come out. I put the tensioner in a vise and wound it back in and locked it with the pin. Then I took it out and used lockwire to hold it in place so I could get the pin out. Just for fun, the hole for the pin on my tensioner is underneath where the head of one of the fixing bolts sits so you cannot see it until the top bolt comes out.

[Guest teigan]

mine is the same way. i searched around for hours, and found the hidden pin the next day. apparently this is not true of all cars because nobody warned me about it. in the end, i too used a lock wire as advised by friends on the forums.

[Hegg]

Thanks again for all the replies. I hope to get started this week and make a bit of progress. The intent is to replace the water pump but figured while I'm messing with the belts in there, might as well do the timing belt.

Any way you look at it, it sounds like fun, right?

[USAndretti42]

If you have to buy an inspection lamp or lead lamp go for the floursecent type. I bought one using a normal incandescent bulb and it's too big to fit through the holes in the bottom of the chassis so I was always struggling to see. And those hot bulbs don't like cold liquids falling on them. And they can do nasty things to your carpet in the boot.

[scooter]

If you have to buy an inspection lamp or lead lamp go for the floursecent type.  I bought one using a normal incandescent bulb and it's too big to fit through the holes in the bottom of the chassis so I was always struggling to see.  And those hot bulbs don't like cold liquids falling on them.  And they can do nasty things to your carpet in the boot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I managed to do the entire timing belt operation from the top only without having to get under the car once. The water pump may make it a bit trickier, but you should have to climb under too many times. I use an LED head-torch - a cavers lamp kind of thing on your forehead in addition to a fluro lamp. The LED ones are cheap and light and really useful. Instead of holding the torch (that's 'flashlight' for our Seppo bretheren) in your mouth, it frees up your mouth for holding spanners.

The other useful bit of kit that I don't have would be some knee protectors like carpet-layers use.

[Hegg]

Hey! I got it out and all that! It wasn't all that bad, I must agree.

However, now that I have my water pump undone and loose, I can't figure out how to get it out of the engine bay. There's not enough clearance any direction I take it.

Any suggestions for that? Hey, at least I got it unbolted....

[USAndretti42]

I kept twisting and turning mine and I atumbled across the sweet spot where it popped out. Have you removed the pulley and thermostat housing top? This should make it easier.

[Guest teigan]

i haven't had to replace mine yet. as i'm told it is very expensive to have done labor wise, because so many parts needs to be removed to get at it. could you please take photos of your procedure? i'd like to attempt this myself next year.

[USAndretti42]

Hey!  I got it out and all that!  It wasn't all that bad, I must agree.

However, now that I have my water pump undone and loose, I can't figure out how to get it out of the engine bay.  There's not enough clearance any direction I take it.

Any suggestions for that?  Hey, at least I got it unbolted....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have noticed that the fibreglass "ledge" on the bodywork across the front of the engine bay has a recess in it above the water pump. I don't know if this or standard or someone has filed it away but it may make the difference between getting the pump ut or not.

[Hegg]

I've heard of people that have cut a notch in the fiberglass to get the water pump out, but mine does not yet have a notch. My guess is that someone might have done that for you already.

Anyhow, that's probably my plan. It's not that important of a piece, even though I feel guilty cutting such a rare car. I've tried for hours to get it out (yes, the thermostat and all hoses were removed). It's just too big to fit past any of the obstacles.