Parts is parts.............

[Erzulis Boat 0]

I have a perfectly sound 2 liter crank. The 2.2 that was in the car is shot, it cannot be repaired without straightening/welding etc.

I can get the car on the road quicker if I use the 2 liter- question is.....does the 2.2 setup improve the 907 engine to such a degree that it would be better to source the 2.2 crank? Is it a "night and day" difference?

Should I hold out for the 2.2? I hear from some that the 2.2 is the "Holy Grail", but some others say that is not the case.

[mwmackenzie 3]

Try Garry Kemp on here for a 2.2 crank, I got a new one off him years ago, great guy!

Mark

[Erzulis Boat 0]

The original engine is 2 liter. I have already spent a small fortune collecting the bits, and the car still sits.

I am trying to rationalize the purchase of a 2.2 crank.

In the Esprit world, do you typically go 2.2 if the car is apart? Will I be kicking myself later? I am trying to figure if the 10% displacement increase is a must have. A Pantera fits the bill for BHP, but am I going to be selling myself short by going with the 2 liter displacement?

From experience, are there any out there with regrets? Is the 2.2 a winner all around, or does the original 2 liter also have it's merits?

I am in a tough spot here, I have a good 2 liter crank standing in the corner...........next to a black JPS, on jack stands.

A rational man would grab the 2 liter in the corner, but as an Esprit owner, the title of rational is not applicable.

[Tony K 127]

The 2.2 is torquier than the 2.0; it's no big block Chevy, but it is enough to notice getting out of a 2.0 car and into a 2.2 car.

You need different pistons for the 2.0 vs. the 2.2 crank. If you only have pistons for a 2.2, then find another 2.2 crank; if you are going to have to spend money on either pistons or crank, spend money in the direction of the one that will give you the slightly faster car. If you have pistons for both the 2.0 and 2.2, assemble it with the equipment you have, and then start poking around for a 2.2 crank at your leisure.

How's that?

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. . . More:

Bearing shells are getting expensive. Standard size are cheap, .010 are about 2 1/2 times as much, and .020 are ridiculous. Is your 2.0 standard size, is it cross-drilled, and would the 2.2 be the same to work with your block without machining? Would you have to buy different bearings to go with the 2.2 you would acquire? If you have matched bearings and crankshaft for 2.0, the savings of already having that could be quite significant over having to buy crank AND shells for 2.2 . . . . the storal of the mory is to look at everything you have and would need, and see if there is any kind of huge price penalty or savings one way or the other. Start there. . . .

Edited May 12, 2008 by Tony K

[peteyg 336]

2.0 is standard for the JPS...if you're the kind of person to keep things original. I have plenty of fun with the 2.0 and the fact of the matter is - it's not about how fast you can go in a straight line, it's about how fast you're prepared to take the corners...

[Erzulis Boat 0]

The original motor is blown to smithereens (literally) the PO swapped the crank to 2.2, and blew it to bits a few months later.

I purchased 2.2 liter JE pistons but they sent 2 liter by mistake (a sign maybe?)

I have the 2 liter unground and completely sound original crank. (no shells though)

I have a set of SAENZ con-rods (670 grams) from JAE

DIS ignition

Weber 45 DCOE's

Dry-sump Turbo block, Pace pump

777 cams etc..........

Half of me says go with what you have now, and button her up. Once she is buttoned, I do not plan on going back in. Too many future projects, and I want to drive it soooo bad.

I can get the pistons swapped.........I was going to get a crank from JHPS, but they were out, now the waiting has only added time to the non-runner status. If I could get a 2.2 crank for something reasonable, but is the displacement increase worth the money that can go into the interior, or am I a fool not to exploit all the other goodies that I have amassed in the engine department? It is not so much the money issue, but one of being a bit practical.

[trackmagic 4]

Good luck! That is a tough decision.

Jeff

Edited May 12, 2008 by trackmagic

[Tony K 127]

Are they the high compression pistons?

You could have a little fun with high compression pistons, reground cams, and polished and matched intake/head . . . you could be getting around 180 hp on an engine dyno with that kind of stuff.

If your pistions are high compression and you can regrind the cams (or just buy some), get the adjustable sprockets, and do the flow work for less money or same money and easier time than the 2.2, then go that route!

As a plus, I'll say it again: having a standard sized 2.0 crank will save you quite a bit of money after ten main shells and eight rod shells. Is the crank appropriately drilled/machined for the bearings that the block will accept?

- T

[Erzulis Boat 0]

Tony- I have a set of adjustable sprockets in my build bin, so that is covered.

As to the pistons, they are HC (bore 3.75, compression height 1.66), I also have new liners from SJ, and a set of new steel cam followers.

The original block is so damaged, that I went paranoid, and starting getting new parts everywhere.

The head/intake is matched. I still need headers, probably stainless SJ bits.

As to the crank exactly matching the block, I will have to check again.

[giorgio67 181]

OK I know.....completely out of topics.... sorry sorry sorry but Andrew is a Lotus owner and he lives in Santa Barbara!!!!!!!

He is a neighbour of Steve Mcqueen!!!

Best actor ever

Best driver ever (he loves Lotus)

One of great men....ever

Ciao

[Tony K 127]

Tony- I have a set of adjustable sprockets in my build bin, so that is covered.

As to the pistons, they are HC (bore 3.75, compression height 1.66), I also have new liners from SJ, and a set of new steel cam followers.

The original block is so damaged, that I went paranoid, and starting getting new parts everywhere.

The head/intake is matched. I still need headers, probably stainless SJ bits.

As to the crank exactly matching the block, I will have to check again.

If you have all those goodies, and all the said parts in hand, then I would get an appropriate set of camshafts for the pistons, porting, and carbs, and enjoy the extra oomph of a rev-happy dry sump 2-liter. I couldn't tell you what lift/duration/etc. to use, but I'm sure Lotusbits, Kemp, etc. could take care of you. The highly modified 2.0 I referenced earlier was a lot of fun, fit the character of the car well, and wasn't lacking for performance. It wasn't torquey down low, but it was eager, and in the mid- to higher rpms, it screamed. Its acceleration reminded me of a Turbo Esprit, only slightly slower (but faster than stock 907).

If you are going to have to machine the crank or block to be able to use them together, then a 2.2 might be in order.

Truth is, you're asking the wrong person here; I am biased toward the 2-liter. It is kind of a "standard" size in my mind, and I love the idea of making a little 2.0 scream like a race motor.

I'd be plenty happy with just a 2.0, but others might say go for the 2.2; Either can be built to make silly horsepower for their size, and taken to extremes the larger displacement engine can almost surely be made to make more power. But for a good streetable motor and not a grenade, I think it comes down to personal philosophy and preference.

OK I know.....completely out of topics.... sorry sorry sorry but Andrew is a Lotus owner and he lives in Santa Barbara!!!!!!!

He is a neighbour of Steve Mcqueen!!!

Best actor ever

Best driver ever (he loves Lotus)

One of great men....ever

Ciao

Great words, coming from a man who shares the same name as the greatest designer ever! (Giorgio)

[giorgio67 181]

There was a yahoo groups member that some time ago posted the same questions.

My english is not so good so maybe it's better to report the full answer by Tim Engel (great man!!)

I think it's a useful answer and maybe it will be a good help.

.....The best thing you can do to a 907 is install the 2.2 crank. The increase

in low end torque transforms the engine's character. It still revs well,

but now it can get off the line too. With a 2.0, you must balance the

clutch and throttle delicately in order to make a clean start. Maneuvering

in traffic requires planning, shifting down, and flogging it. With a

2.2, you just let out the clutch, the engine goes grunt, and the car goes

forward. Driving in traffic is much easier... just punch it and go. The

rest is all gravy.

I considered the 10:9 or 11:1 pistons, but chickened out and installed

9.5:1 pistons. I was afraid of pre-ignition problems with pump gas. But

now I know it's not a problem and wish I'd gone with the 11:1 pistons. The

hemi-head is very tolerant of octane and you can run 10.9 or 11:1 pistons

on USA pump premium gas with no problems.

assembly.

I ran the 104 cams for a while then switched to the DS-2's. Both are good,

but I like the DS-2's better. Neither is done singing at the stock 7000

rpm redline; but the stock tappets are cast iron and not to be trusted

above ~7400 rpm. The cast tappets aren't available from Lotus any more and

the OEM replacements are forged steel units good for 9000+ rpm. If you

want to explore the soprano range, change to the forged tappets. I stayed

with the cast tappets and observe a 7200 rpm redline, but the engine is

still pulling like a train when I shift.

The headers I used are sold by Sports Car World. When I bought them, they

only came in mild steel. Now you can get them ceramic coated. I'm all

for the ceramic coating, but I'd still buy the mild steel, modify them,

then ceramic coat them. The front tube runs very close to the left motor

mount. So close that the heat shield cannot be installed. I was going

through 3 to 4 left motor mounts per driving season and getting tired of it

all. One day, I was comparing notes with Mark MarKell and he said he had

the same problem. He cut the front tube and re-routed it back-n-down

instead of down-n-back. The extra space leaves room for the heat shield.

Since you can't cut and weld the tube after it's ceramic coated without

screwing it up, I'd buy the mild steel header, modify it and then have it

coated.

I had the block/ main bearing panel (MBP) shuffle-pinned and align-honed.

"Shuffle-pinned" may be a local term, I dunno. The MBP is doweled to the

block with only one dowel front and one rear. It's a tubular dowel that

slips over the stud and into a counterbore in both the block and MBP. I

had each of the 10 studs doweled... all of 'em. The machine shop that did

the work said, "Oh, we call that shuffle-pinning". Whatever. One of

the criticisms of the 907 is that the block assembly isn't as stiff as it

should be and doweling all the studs makes the block/ MBP assembly much

stiffer. (FYI... Turbo 910's have 10 dowels). Dowel it first, then

align-hone it.

With all that extra power the engine will also be making more heat. I

don't know if the stock water pump would have been sufficient, but as long

as the engine was out I took the opportunity to install a Turbo water pump.

I have Turbo pumps on both the Esprit and the Eclat.

I haven't had the engine on a dyno... neither before nor after the

rebuild... so I can't give you specific output numbers. But the

difference is dramatic. You'll love it.

Compared to 1st generation G-Turbos? Well an S1/S2 will be considerably

lighter than a Turbo. Combine that with close to the same horsepower and

you could embarrass some of your Turbo buddies. The turbo will still have

a low end torque advantage so you may want to avoid drag races (not good for

the tranny anyway), and they will still have a higher top speed. But

you'll beat 'em at the autocross and on tighter road courses. I've done

it. SE's are a problem though. I've beaten SE's on autocross courses,

but out in the open, they're gone.

Regards,

Tim Engel

Regarding water pump Tim said me that you can install only the Turbo impellor in your normal water pump.

This will increase the cooling up to 70% of the Turbo water pump efficency.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[Tony K 127]

Tim is indeed awesome.