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ninja6485

A return of the 4 cylinder esprit?

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Just to add to the topic,had a 96 Esprit V8 before my GT3,not as much fun and certainly not as well balanced,handling on fun days out never felt quite as safe.My first impression on driving the GT3 was that,"This is the car for me".Although the V8 offers a smoother workout,the white knuckle effect disappeared.The difference in overall performance seemed negligible.I think high perfomance 4 cyl. engines are somewhat a trademark of Lotus and coupled with the Esprit body and chassis design are the perfect duo.The noble in my view,is a serious contender but is a rough ride,and more at home on the track.Maybe a 2.5 V6 for a new Esprit?. As mentioned before, most owners like myself clock between 1k-2K mls.per annum.

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Only one problem with that idea...The Esprit I thought should be a flagship so it would need to be seen as bigger and or better than the Evora. Doesnt the Evora have a 3.5 V6? If the Esprit was to be petrol I would have thought it would have to have more cubes than the Evora?

Buddsy


 

"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

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"The Esprit I thought should be a flagship so it would need to be seen as bigger and or better than the Evora."

Exactamundo, Buddsy. It's a matter of perception and model category "rankings." "Image" is everything. While the current crop of modern day V6's are outstanding powerplants in their own right, Garp, the traditional bias toward larger engines in the "top of the line" model for a given marque is a hard nut to crack. The long standing association of larger displacement (and # of pistons) with increased power and performance will prove to be a significant hurdle to overcome as the collective consciousness attempts to wean itself away from the gas guzzlers of the past. We're not quite there yet, IMO.


Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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Although in 2009 a top of the line engine is still considered to be a V8.

In the very near future the twin turbo V6 will be the king, as almost all OEM's are developing this powerplant

for their top models. With the current trend of turbocharging the V6 configuration opposed to a V8 makes

way better use of the pulse energy from the exhaust, with a V8 a twin scroll system is needed to make

use of the pulse energy which has some disadvantages in efficiency.

On the marketing side some of the greatest cars had a twin turbo 6 cylinder, XJ220, all 91's incl the 911 GT1,

Renault F1 from the 80's Audi RS4, Nissan Skyline GTR. (Maybe the XJ220 is not a good example, but it's still a nice car)

So I think for the next gen Esprit, the N.A. V6 of the Evora for the entry level model, and the twin turbo's for the top model.


VAN DER LEE Turbo Systems     -      www.vdlee.com

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Your point about the existing Porsche 911 6 cylinder twin turbo is well taken, Garp, even if it is a "flat" rather than a "V". Still, it is almost always the modus operandi of automobile manufacturers to incrementally upgrade a specific model line each year as a way of (usually) generating further sales. With that in mind, it is probably a certainty that Lotus will equip the Evora with a turbo in the future. It might be a bit awkward imagewise to (initially) have a N/A Esprit V6 up against a turboed Evora V6 in the same model year. Perhaps Lotus would hold off on a turboed Evora during the new Esprit's development, but the constantly receding "timeline" of the new Esprit's release might make for too lengthy of a delay for desired Evora marketing "upgrades."

And tell me that any member of this forum didn't feel an adrenaline rush while watching the Lexus LF-A video that Dan provided. The visceral "scream" of a 500hp V10 is hard to ignore! I'm not saying that Lotus should necessarily equip the new Esprit with such an engine right out of the box (afterall, it's currently fitted to a "quarter of a million pounds" vehicle at the moment, and one would have to asume that it would be far too costly a motor for a "normal" production supercar), but one can dream.

As the cost of fuel increases, and its availability inevitably decreases in the future, the economic pressures to tweak smaller displacement engines, even for supercars, will assuredly come to bear. To some extent it already has. There may come a time when a V6 (turboed or otherwise) will come to be seen in the same fashion as today's V8's. Of course, by that time we may all be driving electric cars! Modus operandi will have become modus vivendi.


Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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Your point about the existing Porsche 911 6 cylinder twin turbo is well taken, Garp, even if it is a "flat" rather than a "V".

Well that's just a 180 degree vee. :robo:

I agree. V10's sound great. Mind you, V12s sound better. I haven't heard a V16 yet.


S4 Elan, Elan +2S, Federal-spec, World Championship Edition S2 Esprit #42, S1 Elise, Excel SE

 

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It will be the LFA V10 (well that's where my money would be.) Dare I say it, prospective Esprit buyers will have the money to put the petrol into it besides, Lotus already have a good line-up of four cylinder fuel efficient sports cars :robo:

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A very thorough and thoughtful analysis of (as you say) a very long thread. Welcome to the forum, George!

"I don


Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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If Lotus sticks with Toyota for its engines this could be the engine and how it will sound. Also that car may be using a transaxle that would suit.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/...T=V&FLT=34|

A little off topic, but I guess when it comes to exhaust sounds this is the ultimate !! and guess what ? it is also British and it's a V 12

How about something like this in the new esprit ?? :o


Mind if I cut in ?

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You can't convince me that high performance by gasoline with large cubic displacement engines isn't on the way out.

I think gas hogs will go the way of genuine fur coats though it make take a few years.

That's what people were saying in 1974 when Jensen Interceptors and E-type Jags became unsaleable. But a few years later big engines were back in fashion and even the Esprit eventually got itself a V8.

Just look on the roads. Almost everyone with money is still buying monsters like the Cayenne, X6, Q7, Range Rover etc. A 4-cylinder Esprit would be the kiss of death. Even a V6 turbo would IMO be highly questionable.

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It will never happen but what if the new Esprit had Porsche powertrains from the 911's, both NA and TT. Interesting to speculate on people's acceptance to that, six cylinders and all?


DanR

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First off, I can't imagine Porsche selling it's engine's to such a direct competitor. It would be like selling arms to your enemy in the middle of a war. Not that such things don't go on.

Beyond that, a rear engined car has a handicap right off the bat. The marketing department at Porsche knows that the rear engined 911 is invaluable as an icon, thus they continue to develop it and hold the power back on the Cayman and the Boxster to ensure the 911's dominance.

Remember that Lotus did the engineering for the Delorean and strongly urged John Delorean to go with a mid-engined design. This establishes their stand on engine location.

By the way, John Delorean reportedly swore that he would show GM how to build automobiles. I suspect that my car was GM's tit for tat response to their former executive's boast. It's mid-engined of course.

In response to Rich, I don't think gas hogs will ever be as offensive as genuine fur coats.

This question though reminds me of a song by Rush entitled Red Barchetta. It was based on a story published in Road & Track magazine in 1973. In the futuristic story, cars have been banned but the main character's uncle has maintained a Ferrari in secrecy so that he may "commit my weekly crime".

Speaking of Ferrari, Enzo introduced the Dinos with six cylinder engines saying that Ferraris were twelve cylinder automobiles. Of course in 1975 he produced the eight cylinder Ferrari 308s. I guess he couldn't stomach the idea of his name being attached to a car with only 6 cylinders but finally conceded to acceptability of eight.

I recall reading that the Esprit's move to V8s was largely driven by marketing. In the peasant world, Camerys got V6s so Accords had to follow suit with no engineering argument driving the change. I read recently that Porsche at one time built a 1.5liter turbocharged engine cranking out 1000hp so speed is not the issue.

Younger drivers don't seem to share my generations attraction to the sound of an old fashioned, 90 degree crank V8. The lumpy idle and the ferocious roar are intoxicating stimuli for my generation.

I guess I just talked myself into voting for a V8 but I'm not registered to vote in this election.

Edited by gem1138

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I would not expect long odds on

Esprit having a Lexus V8 - interesting thing will be whether Lotus can get transmission for a longitudinal install.

I cannot see a 4 pot Esprit or Evora, and cannot see a V6 Elise. I think the range will be 4 cylinder Elise, 6 pot Evora, V8 (outside chance of V10) Esprit

Hybrid looks a non starter, as in a Lexus it costs 300Kg, and any new Lotus is unlikely to achieve its target weight in the first place :)

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Fast forward to 2080:

The Lotus Forums

"Lotus Esprit--The next generation"

"A return of the nuclear engine?"

Iconic Ride's son's post:

I just don't see it happening. It's just not that environmentally friendly. I remember my dad participating years ago on this forum in the debate about (can you believe it?) how many holes to drill into an engine block.

I see the new Esprit using the new antimatter engine. Nuclear is so "yesterday," even with the fuel saving fusion upgrade. Antimatter rules!


Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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I think the Esprit is VERY likely to get a Lexus / Toyota V8 - previous generation.

Longitudinal would make it very interesting

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I think the Esprit is VERY likely to get a Lexus / Toyota V8 - previous generation.

Longitudinal would make it very interesting

I hope not the UZ engine, 4.7 V8 with 230hp in low spec, and 4.3 V8 with 300hp in high tune,

Then they'd better get the 4cyl 912 sport 300 engine back.

And for the UR engine, 5.7 liter with 381hp and 222kgs on the scale is not really "ad lightnes"

I only see the UR-FSE engine as an option, but it's to new to be sold by Toyota.

I personally think a Cosworth supplied engine would be nice,

Like the Cosworth/Nissan VQ35DE.

But honestly, as to achieve some scale(cost)advantage, i put my bet in an upgrade of the

current Toyota 6 cylinder.


VAN DER LEE Turbo Systems     -      www.vdlee.com

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I would expect a new Esprit to be in the $100k plus range so it would be competing with the likes of the Porsche 911 Turbo and the Corvette ZR1. Both of these cars have engines that are triumphs of engineering and art, worthy of bragging rights on their own.

Could this be said of any engine coming from Toyota?

It is all about marketing. Supposedly, marketing was the driving force behind the Esprit getting a V8 originally. From an engineering standpoint, a supercharged 4 banger is just fine. From a business stand point, a V6 might do, but it better be one heck of a V6 and not just some hot rodded Camery dynamo.

It is hard to imagine that there are not people employed by Lotus reading our posts, but they also know that few of us here are potential buyers of a brand spanking new Lotus Esprit. Most of us are waiting for it to trickle down to our level of purchasing power years down the road.

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