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simonf

B125AHM

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After putting my engine back in after a cracked exhaust manifold, my '84 Esprit Turbo has been running a little on the rough side! Idle was lumpy, at first it wouldn't rev past 5500rpm and it was just gernerally sick.

My first thoughts (as did my chief mechanic Andydclements) that as i had refurbished my petrol tanks, i must have disturbed some grud fromone of these tanks and blocked a jet!

Not so - the idle and main jets would all have to been blocked at the same time as the symptoms did not improved under any throttle conditions. However i did discover that one of the spark plug leads was not on correctly - however this only cured the revving to 5500rpm and allowed it to rev round to 6000rpm (hardly an improvement but any step in the right direction is good news)

Andy then came up with a plan B - I pressure washed the engine whilst it was out and maybe some water had managed to get into the float chamber - His solution was to take the plenum cover off and cover each trumpet to enable the suction of the piston to pull through whatever was in the float chambers - brilliant! but it didn't work!

After much head scratching andy and i thought it may be on the electrical side - we changed the cam belt and it is possible that the ignition timing was affected. So we set about checking the timing! Andy not content with just putting the timing light on and checking first!? Set about stripping off the dizzy cap and removing the rotor arm (something to do with a hobber? or something, anyway my car didn;t have one what ever it is, so we had to do it the old fashioned way, put the dizzy cap back on (not my favourite job!!!) and after losing the sprung clips at least a dozen tijmes we had it reasembled remembering to put the rotor arm back on - we did put the rotor arm back on didn't we andy? What this rotor arm? F*CK! start again then!

Anyway we managed to get the cap back on and started about timing the old girl up!

A) Urmm simon

S) Yes Andy

A) Why arnt there any timing marks?

S) They must be there!

A) No there arnt any!

S) Maybe you need to time it up against cylinder 4, Lotus always like to do it differently!

A) Nope none on 4, none on 3 and guess what - none on 2!

So we put the car in gear and push it until we can see the timing mark 10' Before TDC we even mark it with paint!

Start her up and guess what - still no timiong marks.

S) How is it running then?

A) dunno!

We finally time it by ear and we can finally see the marks to time it to perfection! Vrrroooom, vrrroooom perfect revs and oh joy she sounds glorious!! Then the revs cut out suddenly!

S) What happened there?

A) Must be a loose connection

so we check all the wires to the ignition module, coil, earth strap, coil lead and low voltage leads to the distributor and all are ok! So i am already thinking what should i buy first coil or ignition module, i even wonder whether Strattons will do them on a sale or return basis. When Andy says what about the low voltage leads to the distributor?

S) Oh no,i am not taking the dizzy cap off again!

now we know there is no spark, and andy has checked power to the coil and it is live, so reluctantly i take thedistributor off again! The leads are severed right inside the distibutor! and the had been solderedmup in the most ameteur of fashions!

Thats the badnews! The good news is that just for a few seconds she was running like a oeach!!

ALWAYS THE OPTOMIST, THATS ME!!

OH AND SORRY TO HEAR THAT YOU GOT PULLED BY THE ROZZERS ON THE WAY HOME ANDY!


REHABS FOR QUITTERS!!

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Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

Noisey exhaust or wandering all over the road? :baby:


Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

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Glad I left when I did then bois!!! What time were you revvving the nuts off till in your residential area!!!hahahah Well Im glad you look as if you are getting to the bottom of it!!

Andy I got that "what the speed police dont want you to know" thats advertised in the back of ccar maganzines as a PDF want me to point out a few of the main highlights!!! lol


 

"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

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Noisey exhaust or wandering all over the road? :thumbup:

I wasn't there, but if i has to guess! Noisy exhaust would be worth a tenner!!!!!! or trying to acheive light speed down Duke street would be my second guess and thats gotta be worth a fiver!!!!

Edited by simonf

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Right, back to techy on this thread.

It was running rough- I do mean really rough.

We managed to get things running perfectly for 5 seconds- then we lost spark.

We found one of the wires to the Lucas constant energy system had broken again (looked like there were about 8 reapirs across the 2 wires already).

Could not obtain new pick-up base plate locally, so had the wire repaired by an auto electrician , rather than me moan about my soldering iron not working. Haven't tested the module for continuity, but I'm hoping it's OK (will test tomorrow).

The coil works, we get a spark if the control module is completely un-plugged and I manually induce a current change in the LT side, but get no spark if we attempt to use the dissy to generate the spark.

We've tried both with and without the engine speed limiter (it appears to fail to a state allow the engine to run when removed).

I'm now thinking,possibly battery to low on power (Simon set to charge it tomorrow, but it had enough to turn the engine over freely), wire still broken, pick-up module F***ed as the wire allowed it to ground out when the wire failed, or amplifier module F***ed.

So, along with my test kit (multi meter and continuity tester) I plan to take my S3 ignition electrics to try on Simon's car tomorrow.

I'm glad I've got that red S3 sitting there- not only does it serve as a red shelving unit but it's also a spare parts unit for the Excel, the TE and now Simon's TE.

Any other suggestions, obvious items I've missed/ not mentioned?

Andy

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Right = andy and i have changed our names for the purpose of this forum! I am Stan Laurel and andy is now called Oliver Hardy! Because thats what we are Laurel and Hardy!

Andy came round today with his multi meter! We tested the L.V wires to the distributer and found that there was a break in the wires! Hurrah i thought because i got a price on an ignition module from strattons and they said


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Elementary soldered wire repair....turn on soldering iron and allow to heat up. Ideally have a small iron for electronic work, with a stand featuring a damp sponge to wipe the tip on. Meanwhile, take the broken wire, trim the ends of the break with small sidecutters. Slip a short length of heatshrink tubing over the end of one of the wires, long enough to cover the repair and some of the insulation of both of the wires. Strip about 1/2" (that'll be marginally more than 10mm) from each wire. Twist the stranded conductor in each wire to stop the strands seperating. Take the now hot soldering iron, wipe the tip on the sponge and apply a small amount of solder to the tip. Modern lead-free solder is awful, but I suppose we're stuck with it. (I have a 5lb reel of Ersin Multicore which will see me out!!) Apply the iron to the end of one wire, iron tip underneath the wire, and then touch the solder onto the top of the wire, until the strands are "tinned" and united into one unit. Don't use any more than the minimum amount of solder. Trim the wire ends to the length you want; 5 to 10 mm is usually good. Wipe the iron tip and repeat for the other wire. Then lap the two ends together so they overlap (an acolyte is useful here) and apply the iron to the underside of the two wires, and solder to the top, until you have a good joint. The essential thing is to get the wires up to the temperature where the solder flows..no cold blobbing from hot iron to cold workpiece. Remove the iron from the workpiece but don't let the wires move until the solder solidifies. Once you're happy with the result, let it cool down before sliding the heatshrink tubing over the joint..then shrink it in place with a hot air gun or by holding the soldering iron near to the heatshrink. The result should be a good electrical joint, mechanically supported by the heatshrink tubing, and ought to be as good as the original wire. You can twist the wires together before soldering them, but that makes a clumsy lumpish joint which can be a installation problem.

Apologies if I'm teaching egg-sucking to grandmothers..this stuff isn't difficult but does take practise..once learnt you never forget it!! Soldering is a very useful skill and means that you don't have to resort to choccie blocks!


Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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Lets put this on context. (validate the reson for the bodge)

Ideal solution would be a new connector that couples both wires simulatiously- not available at the time.

2nd best would be 2 seperate connecters per wire, one male one female for the dissy end, one male one female for the amp end (so the wires could not be transposed)- Simon couldn't find any crimping tool. Nor could he find one matching pair of connectors let alone 2.

Next option was - what ever we coudl find- that turned out to be choccy block, but if not it would probably have been strip back the wire, twist it together and cover in bubble gum (if not tape had been to hand).

Unfortunately soldering isn't an option as the connection has to be reversibale to allow maintenance.

Soldering wires at Simon's didn't seem to be an option (it requires availability of soldering iron and solder).

Andy

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Hey i have a soldering iron! i even have solder! BUT THERE WAS NO WAY I WAS GOING TO TAKE THE DIZZY OUT AGAIN IN ORDER TO SOLDER IT!!!!

And lets be fair chocc is our friend! Its a good reliable way of fixing two wires together! I will go back and crimp a better method shortly!

Simon

(I bet if you look at my car next time we are at a meeting - the chocco is still on there!!)


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It will take you the best part of one hour to remove all that tape to get to the choc block

Haven't seen a post saying it's all working and back on the road again........

Edited by andydclements

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As promised here is a photgraph of Buddsy's lovelly polished remodelled trumpets that he kindly made for me!

SEXY AREN'T THEY!

post-3811-1214256882.jpg

If you look carefully - you can see two things in this photgraph!

1) The chocco block repair!

2) That the wire is actually trapped behind the plenum back plate!


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Is that bad then? I will be honest Andy, i wouldn't have a clue on how to reduce it! It was by pure fluke i managed to get the image from my Blackberry to PC (i had to e-mail it, then save it, then retrieve it from photo gallery!) But in all of this i never saw anything to suggest i could reduce the size of the photo!

Anyway one of those nice mods will do it for me i am sure! Jame, Bibs or Kimbers!

Haven't seen a post saying it's all working and back on the road again........

You are right...and thats a little weired because i posted a section about it being in fine health! I guess it must have been one of those flood gate too much information thingys that come up on my system every now and again!

Anyway i took the Esprit for a little run after andy soughted it all out for me! I took her down to the A47 via St Williams Way - and i was getting loads of looks! Went past the Audi garage and had a Civic Type R have a little go but blew him out of the water, getting lots of looks from all the cars as i go past! I keep easing off the throttle and then back on... the revs are free and witout any hesitation but i am still not getting full boost (i think that maybe down to a weeping Turbo to Exhaust gasket (your thoughts please) as we noticed that it was leaking! I took the car down to the easton roundabout and then came back on myself, giving the the full berries! I am not getting any flames from my exhaust which is disappointing and another indication that she is not running right!

Anyway it was not until the thickthorn slip road that i notice why i was getting so many looks - i had been driving down the A47 at 100+phlectons without realising that my tailgate was up!! Well no worse than a escort cosworth i suppose!


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Hi Simon,

Glad to hear you motor is well on the way to working again, thought I'd just add that you are not the only one to have to have driven with the tailgate in the air-brake position. I did it in my grotty old red one when I looked in my mirror and could see a good deal more than usual I totally believed that it had flown off. Whilst stopping I imagined all manner of nightmare scenarios, cheese-grated cyclist, shocked mum in a volvo at the very least an angry sheep...

Ambrose

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B125AHM off the road again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Replaced the turbo-exhaust gasket yesterday and while tightening my new stainless steel aerolite bolts (effin


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The turbo is back on with the new gasket - no leak. However there is a small weap from the exhaust to wastegate joint, but i am sure that wouldn't make a huge difference to the drive-ability, however on the test run, i am still not getting full boost! and the car is hesitant at around 6000rpm. Things that i believe may be the cause are:-

Mixture not set correctly

Wastegate actuating too early

Buddsy's lovelly trumpets restricting airflow

does anybody have any ideas?

is there anyway of adjusting the wastegate?

Your input is greatly appreciated

Simonf


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Simon

What do your spark plugs look like after such a run?

By 6000 rpm you are living off your main jets, so there is no adjustment available (other than changing jets, correct float hight, making sure linkages and balance are in order). My hunch would be that its electrical. I cant remember what you have changed so far, but start with the obvious (but often overlooked!) spark plugs, leads, cap, rotor).

Have you checked fuel pressure from your regulator? Its reasonably critical. Its definitely worth getting a pressure gauge and tee piece.

However, before you spend any money, try another run with the plug to the rev limiter disconected (the box on the wheel arch with 3 wires). This component caused similar issues with my car, a little lower in the rev range).

If none of the above, try a new coil - something like a Lucas DLB198 for Lucas CEI

If your wastegate simply has a hole in the bottom, then its not manually adjustable. You need to remove the base and 'jack up' the springs with washers. I recently made some washers by buying a sheet of 2mm ally off fleabay, cut the centre hole with a very cheap 'hole cutter' and cut the outside with an angle grinder. I used 2 of these washers to increase boost by around 1.5 psi to HC spec (as I now run forged pistons). The effect on performance was fairly remarkable. It previously ran out of steam at around 135, it has now run upto 150mph and could have run a little higher....

The weep from the exhaust to wastegate joint will not affect anything at all (except an MOT!)

cheers Steve

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Cheers Steve,

I have replaced plugs, leads, rotor arm, dizzy cap etc. I think i am going to get a mobile engine tuner in to tweek mixture, fuel pressure etc as everytime i have tried to do this myself previously, i have made it worse!

Disconnecting the rev limiter sounds like a good shout (won't cost me anything to do it!) but i don't think that would have an affect the boost)

I will keep tinkering until i get it soughted - have to get the weep from the wastegate sorted before 17th July as it is due an MOT then!

Checked the spark plugs and the electrode and the ceramic core are a dusty pink colour with the rim of the plug being sooty, Dusty pink leads me to believe running a little week - but would that have an impact on the amount of boost? It would explain why it runs out of puff at 6000rpm, but surely the turbo would still spool up at the lower revs?

Wot ya reckon?


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The turbo should be able to provide far more air than needed for the allowable boost.. I would say that boost restriction indicates a wastegate issue. Sounds like you have to change the wastegate gasket anyway, so you have an excuse for taking it off...you could rig some low pressure system with a gauge to see what pressure it opens at and shim to suit. No end to the fun, is there?!!


Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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Fecking hell, i can't keep up with this car, no sooner do you fix one problem and another one just as serious comes along! THe wastegate was functioning perfectly before i took the engine out! I know it has had recent work on it because the Aerotight bolts are new! Is it possible that it just needs freeing off? Couldn't i just give it a whack with a dirty great hammer? Thats what i feel like doing!

I must confess that there is a great big axe hanging up in my garage and i have glanced at it a few time and thought HMMMMMmmm

Once i have got the thing ruinning correctly i have then got to start on my wierd steering situation that seems to be a result of about 23mm set off and the castor angle being 9 minutes out! :flower:


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Don't suppose smacking it with a hammer will help.. it won't be stuck, otherwise you'd be getting vast amounts of boost..sounds like it's opening too early, at too low a pressure..that's set by the spacers in assembly..Bigsi's definitive account elsewhere in these hallowed pages covers it completely. Getting the wastegate off without snapping the two bolts holding it to the manifold, now, that's another fun job!


Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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