Really sad story but not suprising

[Jonathan]

Just goes to show you :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bu...rts/7496757.stm

Last time I was in London I was astounded at how potentially dangerous bikes were to pedestrians - I've always said I would much rather be hit by a car than a bike in London - really sad story kinda proves that. Not just in town though, the amount of times bikes have nearly run me down walking and running around as I do is incredible - this "get out of my way" ethos is nothing new in my experience.

See, all the clowns carp on about speed in built up areas but it is cyclists (I cycle a lot too but I am responsible) who are the new danger, you can't hear them, a lot of them dont obide by the laws of the road and they appear from no where and as with this bloke, on whole, their attitudes STINK

[andydclements]

I deliberately wait for enough space to overtake a car before overtaking a cyclist, that way if they veer to the centre for any reason I have a good chance of avoiding them, I notice lots of drivers don't. Unfortunately there are several stupid idiots on 2 wheels near where I work, those are the ones for whom traffic lights only apply to vehicles with engines, cycle paths are best avoided and pedestrian crossings are places to cycle across when the red don't walk symbol has been showing for a while.

[Kato]

There's bad drivers, bad cyclist and bad pedestrians.

Stuff like this just turns people against the group, not the few who ruin it for everyone else. There's one incident in the papers and suddenly cyclist are public enemy no.1, whereas there's millions everyday riding without incident.

Pedestrian have been killed by cyclist for years and will be for years to come. Cars will kill Pedestrian, have done and always will. As soon as we move faster than by our own power, people will die.

There's no 'new danger', it's always been there.

[Glyn Harper]

The problem nowadays is there are too many smart ass lawyers, ready to get someone off with a serious offence based on technicalities and loopholes.

The CPS obviosuley decided a higher charge would probably have struggled due to all sorts off issues with regards pedal cycles and the Road Traffic Act.

The majority of offences under the road traffic act start with 'Owing to the presence of a MOTOR vehicle on a road'....

They must have played it safe by going for dangerous riding which they knew they'd get home with no problems.

I see this more and more these days. Serious offences dropped down to lesser ones, in order for them to sail through court with no hassles or contests that would cost money.This is why you get scallies walking the streets with pages and pages of previous convictions, when they should actually be locked up for much longer periods each time they commit an offence.

[Jonathan]

There's no 'new danger', it's always been there.

Couldn't disagree more ! There are 91% more cyclist in London now than in 2000 so you have more of them on the roads.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7497432.stm

Police in London now say there are more road offences caused by cyclists than any other road user - the most common is running red lights, they even now have bike patrols to catch the buggers.

Since the whole green issue cropped up (past 5 years) facilities for cyclists to go about their business has increased and there are much more of them on the road, the green issue has also given them an aura of supremacy above the rest of us. How many bike protesters do you see nowadays blocking the traffic up all aloof and holier than thou - seriously if BMW or Audi made a pushbike this is what they'd have, they act like the own the road, riding two abreast totally holding the traffic up, gesticulating and all sorts.

I've walked to work (and riden, respectfully using the bike lanes, not as and when I can be assed to do so) for many years and there was never a problem up until about 3-4 years ago - once the bike lanes went in OMG you put 1 foot into that terracotta patch of theirs and you're just fair game - I've had more than my fair share of cyclists this year nearly knock me over as they ignore the tax payers funded cycle paths and zoom past you on the pedestrian walk way all the professional cyclist with the lycra shorts and sunglasses on.

It's clearly not the speed that kills but the mannerisms of the idiots in control, once you give them this "I'm better than you" 4x4 / german car driver mentality becuase they dont pollute, my god they own the road too !

My biggest issue is they say drivers and pedestrians must adapt to them.......ummmmmmmm NO, they dont pay any tax to abuse the road, or most importantly they have zero >> INSURANCE <<

So just remember that when you're in London, the lights go red and the little green man says it's safe to cross - as long as there isn't a cyclist coming your way !

Edited July 10, 2008 by Jonathan

[OwenGT3]

Hi,

A cyclist hit me in my VW Lupo while I was waiting to turn left out of a junction. I was not in the wrong as I was indicating, looking both left and right, but he came from nowhere behind some trees on the path heading towards on coming traffic on the wrong side of the road, so breaking the law already, then decided to go in front of my car just as I was pulling out of the junction. He hit my car and his foot went under the front wheel, broke bones in his foot and removed serious amount of skin.

Police where called, but they didn't do the cyclist, and I was not at fault, but my insurance company said I had to take blame for my cars damage as a cyclist is treated as a third party, I made it clear to the insurance I was not at fault and where in the highway code does it say it's legal to ride on the path unless they are designated cycle lanes, apprently insurance law is 'different' to the highway code, what a screwed up world we live in. If I wanted to take action against him for the repair cost I would have needed to take out a private civil claim, but as he broke his foot I didn't and I hope he had learnt his lesson, I think he was off work for 8 weeks.

The law should ber changed so you have to have insurance for cycling, I think people on the streets should have some sort of insurance cover as well, how many people step off the road and could cause you to have an accident in your car, you can't claim unless its a private claim, and what a nonsense that can be.

Owen.

[Bibs]

The law should ber changed so you have to have insurance for cycling, I think people on the streets should have some sort of insurance cover as well, how many people step off the road and could cause you to have an accident in your car, you can't claim unless its a private claim, and what a nonsense that can be.

Do you really, really think that?

Wouldn't it be better if more people just used common sense and took more care? I'd hate to live in a society where you had to be insured to step out of your house!

[Jonathan]

Thats the point, who cares and uses common sense any more ?

It's sad we have to be told what to do all the time and obey 1million +1 laws and regulations but for the most of it, people just can't behave properly any more and they need the nanny state to actually help them along in life.

[giorgio67]

Which type of bycicle are you using in UK?

LHD OR RHD...?

[Paul C]

I'm from Oxford, where cyclists are the nits of the road.

People from countries all over the world come here, get on a bike and ride.

You need a driving license to hire a car, and even then you can put yourself

in some danger by not knowing that countries road and highway rules/markings

etc.

But bikes? Nothing. You don't even have to hold a driving license from your own

country, you don't need to have ever ridden a bike on the road in your whole life.

You just arrive here and buy one, then hit the road, in huge numbers.

Hence, when you add to that the normal student demograpic of not giving a toss,

we have a huge proportion of bikes just weaving and meandering around the city

with either no clue what they should be doing, or simply not bothering.

Now in most places this would find them all crunched under a bus in the first five

minutes out. But in Oxford they are actually SAVED by their high number:

You see someone on a bike, on the road, in Oxford city.

You assume they will niether signal or look, or even know what

they are going to do next themselves.

You give them a wide birth, then feel absolutely no suprise when they veer all

over the road in front of you an dissapear up a one way street (marked by a

sign they either don't understand or simply ignore), all the time with their head

canted sideways chatting to their mate (who can't hear as he's got earphones).

In the winter, it's exactly the same, but with no lights.

Cleverest young people in the world.

No common sense.

Its just how it is.

[OwenGT3]

Do you really, really think that?

Wouldn't it be better if more people just used common sense and took more care? I'd hate to live in a society where you had to be insured to step out of your house!

I know what you are saying, but people don't seem to possesses it anymore, especially the youth, it was a young lad who hit me in the Lupo, now if it was me I wouldn't even be on the path in the first place, but if I had to go across a junction I would have gone around the back of the car and waited for an acknowledgement from the driver if I was passing in front of another car, plus I would have walked, not cycled across. This lad said he thought I had seen him! Fat chance, my last check up the road was clear so I was checking to see that I didn't pull out in front of on coming traffic, he was being an idiot, simple as that and didn't use his loaf!

I know we shouldn't have to have these things in place, but if people continue to be stupid then you need to be able to claim off them, why should it always be the motorist that has to pay, I was out of pocket by

[mayevora]

Must admit, have got into the habit of driving past cyclists with the window down and wording CYCLE PATH in a loudish voice if one is available. In Exeter there are now some roads where the cycle paths are bigger/wider than the actual roads themselves but some (not all) still prefer to use the road, as it might take all of 5 seconds longer to take it.

As Kato said, there is bad drivers, riders and pedestrians, but lets face it - its not that hard to use a bit of common - its nothing but lazyness most of the time.

Edited July 10, 2008 by mayesprit

[Katie]

Added to all the problems listed above, is modern technology. Whilst very useful, I think it causes distraction and the innability to realise you have a car up your arse.

You see pedestrians on mobile 'phones, texting, wearing headphones etc. Half the time they cannot hear you, or, are so engrossed in what they are doing, they have no idea you are there. This is a particular problem round here as the road that takes you to the main road has no pavements, and is a rat-run to the local senior school.

And ditto for cyclists who go about there travels listening to music. They put themselves at a disadvantage to what is on the road. This is unfair on all who use the roads.

There are drivers out there who don't give a toss about pedestrians and cyclists, but I'd say more than most do care. Seems unfair that it's our pocket that has to pay the price for a driver, cyclist or pedestrian that could/should have been paying more attention.

[rogerch]

What happened to the "Cycling Proficiency Test" I took that at school, I don't think it really meant anything, they didn't ban you if you failed, but it did impart skills and common sense.

I'm a regular cyclist, so I like to think I have consideration for cyclists when I'm driving, but coming home the other day, and yes there is a designated cycle path all the way from Coffs Harbour to where I live about 8 ks out, but no I've got these licra clad bumms half way across the road!!

I don't drive on cycle path and it really p!!**s me off when they cycle on the road where a cycle path is provided.

Roger

[Autocross7]

Well, in the days following George Carlin's death, I recall his thoughts on bycicle drivers on the street...

"You know, I see people on bikes more and more these days. Not the bikes with motors.. oh no... but the bikes with peddals! On the street. They ride along dressed in cycle uniforms that are skin tight with these little helmets with mirrors sticking out. Mirrors... I suppose so that they can see behind the bikes? I think to myself... they create traffic problems with some sort of bycicle ridders attitude. I see them run through intersections, run down people on foot, turn accross traffic... as if they have some right of way. Then I ask myself... where are these bike ridders going? I mean really? Look at how they dress. Where are the headed? I'll tell where, 20 feet up into the f'n air if they get close to my car! That's right you bike peddalin' buckos... Paper, rock, sissors, bike.. CAR!"

Copied from the words of George Carlin.

Cameron

Edited July 11, 2008 by Autocross7

[matk]

I'm a fairly regular cyclist too, don't want to get too much into this thread, but will say that it's extremely difficult to use most cycle paths round London, as cars simply park on them, so you have to get out into the road anyway.

Interestingly when I'm driving I get really annoyed at cyclists slowing me down, but when I get on my bicycle I get extremely annoyed at inconsiderate car drivers cutting me up etc.

Think I'm a bit of a hypocrite!

Owen, got to say mate, if you choose not to go after the guy legally speaking, then you can hardly complain about being out of pocket. It might have taken a long time, but my understanding of legal cover on your insurance is that they would have pursued him no matter how long it took, if you'd instructed them to do so. I admit the system is biased against you, but the way you described the incident, it seems pretty clear cut to me that you would have eventually been recompensed. Correct me if I'm wrong?

[Jonathan]

Mat - I cycle a lot as well but I have given up.

In the car, esp the lotus, I am horrible to cyclists who flout the kindness us drivers extend to them for letting them use OUR roads, but it's mainly becuase they are just being tits - ie not riding in the council tax designated cycle lanes which were once roads and which we pay for to upkeep - or riding 2 abreast to provoke the traffic.

As a cyclist I have given up too - I am so polite and considerate you would not believe, I stop and get off my bike and stand asside for pedestrians and I ALWAYS use the cycle lane. If there is one I ride on the pavement to keep out of car's ways and if there are people I stop for them - most people are astounded and I have always been thanked - one old lady even said "I wish you all did that" (ie stop).

But now I dont cycle at all becuase it's too dangerous for me - yep i am close to becoming a hypocrite but I value my life too much and I do agree in london it is terrible - but its the growing attitude of 'professional' cyclists who just seem to be claiming the green high ground as a means to basically stick 2 fingers up at everyone they see that bothers me - it's noticable in London and noticable in town here too.

[OwenGT3]

Owen, got to say mate, if you choose not to go after the guy legally speaking, then you can hardly complain about being out of pocket. It might have taken a long time, but my understanding of legal cover on your insurance is that they would have pursued him no matter how long it took, if you'd instructed them to do so. I admit the system is biased against you, but the way you described the incident, it seems pretty clear cut to me that you would have eventually been recompensed. Correct me if I'm wrong?

That's the thing, my insurance company would not have gone after him, in their eyes I hit a third party person who they could not claim off so you have to take the blame, that where the system sucks, if it was a car, no problem as they 'should' have insurance and can claim. Any claim made to recover funds would have been a private made one through a solicitor to recover the funds and get compensation, but basically I just didn't want the hassle and more cost, although I would have got it back at the end, you still have to find it in the first place.

I wasn't hurt, ok

[simonf]

Owen, wouldn't your insurance company just claim of the 'Uninsured Loss Fund'? There is a pot that all the insurance companies pay into for just this kind of occasion!

With regards to cycling, i am a very keen cyclist, but just for fun, i don't commute by bike. My feelings on the matter is that i can not wait to get out of the city when on my bike and i head straight for the country roads!

I feel that this joker that hit poor little rhiannon deserves a prison sentance! Now its one thing to be time trialing, i do it all the time! Its another thing to be time trialing in an urban area!!!! What the feck was he thinking! You want to see how fast you can go against a clock? Do it where there isn't 1) cars and traffic that will slow you down anyway 2) pedestrians that could get injured!

I saw him on television (anglia news) and my first impression was arrogant tosser! They are quite right when the parrents said if he was in a car he could have got 16years, but on a bike

[Laura]

You want to see how fast you can go against a clock? Do it where there isn't 1) cars and traffic that will slow you down anyway 2) pedestrians that could get injured!

But where is that? We've just recently bought ourselves bikes (and it's rained every day since) just to ride for fun and exercise but where can I possibly go that isn't on a road or a path. There's no cycle path/network in my area, I guess that leaves me tryng to find a field to go around or something!

I agree with Kato, there's good and bad cyclists just the same as good & bad drivers, bikers even pedestrians. This is a very sad incident and the punishment doesn't seem just but I don't think all cyclists in the world can be blamed for this one cyclist's stupidity.

[Bibs]

Having had a bike for about 2 weeks tonight I've become a victim of crime!

5 kids in a BMW thought it would be funny to beep and throw stuff at cyclists, namely a child on a BMX who was about, Laura and myself. I thought it would be good to offer them a chance to be a man when they got stuck in some traffic but they responded by trying to push/kick me off my bike and throw more stuff at me before driving off like the cowards they were. Fortunately, I got their plate, there was a witness and they've been reported for common assault and the Police have been over to take a statement.

[Iconic Ride]

Sheesh, Bibs! Sounds like something out of "A Clockwork Orange". What has the world come to? Good headwork on your part to get the plate #. Hopefully these hooligans will get their comeuppance in due course. In the meantime, you and Laura are both welcome to come to Austin with your new bikes and ride free of such shenanigans. There are many "dedicated" bike paths, and even a Velodrome.

Cheers,

John

[andydclements]

Bibs, Red strip is good at that sort of thing, he give out the appearance of an overweight short bloke, what the people don't realise that excess weight isn't fat, it's muscle.

Oh dear, did you think you had a mirror on that side of your car that just touched me?

Oh dear, your car cannot get away from me in traffic, now try and knock me off again, this time with me in front of you with about 20 witnesses in other vehicles as I'm right in front of your bumper at traffic lights.

And many more.

It's been many years since I rode a cycle for more than a few miles, but when I used to ride a motorcycle a doddering old F**t nearly knocked me off and pushed me between his vehicle and oncoming traffic, putting me on the white line in heavy rain while I braked as hard as the motorcycle could, he seemed shocked and worried when I followed him for 2 miles, overtook down a narrow lane (2 cars can pass, but that's a tight squeeze), parked my bike in the middle of the road and walked back to his car. Guess what, he could reverse faster than he could drive forwards......

With your altercation- go for it, demand they do something about it.