free hit
counters
Avgas in our V8s - Engine/Ancilliaries - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
kyliesmith.com

Avgas in our V8s

Recommended Posts

We have a boarder staying with us for a while who is a pilot for one of our National postal Airlines and said he can get me avgas for a very low rate :) The stuff that they put in the fuel (TEL) to get the octane up over 100 does bother me though as its toxic stuff. Can our computer handle recalibration easily over 100? Also I have no cats so its just chucking everything straight through!!!

I understand I wont realise any performance gains from it by just tootling around but I am more interested that if anything the car may benefit (no engine knock) over bad fuel etc.

I did do a search but nothing relevant :)


350.gifNo.23

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

Would also depend on what grade of Avgas it is. There's 100LL, 101LL, 104LL and 110. (There's also 115/145 if you know where to look.... :) )

Also I have no cats so its just chucking everything straight through!!!

Well if you're going to run afterburners surely Jet A-1 would be better :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Russ,

Well spotted. However, lead is also bad for the Oxygen sensors. I'm sure she still has those.

Kylie,

How loud is your car without cats?

Regards,

Peter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most 'general aviation' AVGAS is 100LL I think - whether that's 'low' enough for your lambda probe I don't know. When I was racing we ran 100LL for a few races in my modsports MG - made a little difference IIRC but not very much.


Proud recipient of the LEF 'Car of the Month Award' February 2008

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: "Wow, what a ride!!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We have a boarder staying with us for a while who is a pilot for one of our National postal Airlines and said he can get me avgas for a very low rate :) The stuff that they put in the fuel (TEL) to get the octane up over 100 does bother me though as its toxic stuff. Can our computer handle recalibration easily over 100? Also I have no cats so its just chucking everything straight through!!!

I understand I wont realise any performance gains from it by just tootling around but I am more interested that if anything the car may benefit (no engine knock) over bad fuel etc.

I did do a search but nothing relevant :)

TEL is Tetra Ethyl Lead or in plain language lead as was added to petrol.

I used to use the stuff with my old Westfield, see my post here:

http://www.lotusespritforum.com/forums/ind...p;hl=tetraboost

The problem with running leaded fuel on a V8 is that it will detroy your catalysts (not an issue if you don't have any) and the oxygen sensors (that is a problem since apart from the CELs the engine when idling or under part throttle will run a tractor).

Also, an unknown factor is whether all the seals used throughout the fuel system are lead tolerant. If not the lead will start to eat them away.


May: DON'T hit it with a hammer!

Clarkson: Why?

May: Cause it's the tool of a pikey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope ok too much to worry about here. As mentioned I have no cats but O2 sensors are there. Certainly want to keep the sensors working well. Seems there is more to lose, I have no idea about the quality of seals in the fuel system and not really something I want deteriating from poor choices.

At the moment im running Bp 98 but an old wives tale tells me our octane levels arent as high as UK/Europe. Anyway its morning here and its not raining, so im off for a hoon after I have some coffee. :(


350.gifNo.23

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Used too run my Cosworth on an AVgas/ super plus unleaded mix with no adverse affects and the pickup and extra power was very noticeable.

Works much better in turbo'ed cars compared to N/A IIRC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why Avgas ?! Only because you get it cheaper? - it's also very easy to use simple Ethanol fuel to get your high octane rate . What was the offered purchase price for one 'L' of the Avgas ?!

E85 {with 106octane] costs between 80-98 cents in Germany. And as i can read you do not have any catalysts? This means you can handle the higher exhaust temperatures (in order to the leaner fuel mixture with Alcohol..) much more than i. Have removed my 98mm-pre catalyst now, it runs only with the rear '120mm'-diameter 200 cell race cats now and is pretty fast in acceleration .


*********************************************************************

to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

*********************************************************************

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless the engine is specifically mapped for higher octane fuel, I don't think it'll make any difference, apart from the isses mentioned with you lambda sensors.

As long as the engine isn't pinking, the map will just run stock settings, which won't advance the ignition enough to make use of a higher octane.

I'm no expert on Sport 350 maps, but generally, most modern ECU's run a default map until a problem occurs (pinking, high temperatures) in which case they retard ignition, put more fuel in.. etc..

They don't normally have settings to handle better octane fuel to run better.

Dermot is your best person to ask about this. He's a Chemistry genius, and makes his own 'special brew' fuel, so can tell you everything you need to know. He also knows an awful lot about mapping ECU's for different grade fuels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But she doesn't have cats...

Well she used to, Russ, but she changed her Avatar. (huh?) :yes


Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the old Opel [GM] Kadett engines had an changeable mapping -between "normal" (91 octane in Europe) and "Super" (95octane in Europe) fuels. All unleaded... . In the owners manual was noticed that an change (by turning an bridge connector in the engine bay) in fuel quality should improve the efficiency of the car/engine


*********************************************************************

to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

*********************************************************************

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As you say Gunter.. The car needs to be mapped to run on better fuel or it will run a default map and not give you any benefit.

I believe the Challenger tank has an octance sensor so it can be run on Petrol, Diesel, Parrafin, Whiskey, Cooking oil.. etc...

But the Challenger also has a gas turbine engine :welcome:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

but an gas turbine does not need an 'octane sensor' !? All it needs is an steady ignition spark and as soon as it burns an steady flow of fuel , other way you will get an 'blow out' as seen on jet-fighter movies ...?? Some of the European (an maybe US also...) tractor pulling teams do use vegetable oils. In order to my experiences -i would say its great stuff -as long as it ignites in the right moment ;-)


*********************************************************************

to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

*********************************************************************

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well she used to, Russ, but she changed her Avatar. (huh?) :yes

Problem being.........? Not upset are ya :welcome:

Most 'general aviation' AVGAS is 100LL I think - whether that's 'low' enough for your lambda probe I don't know. When I was racing we ran 100LL for a few races in my modsports MG - made a little difference IIRC but not very much.

I forgot to report back 100LL is what they are using here and what I can get quite cheap. Have decided not to even bother trying it for now because of the what iffs and buts, ill just stick to 98 and be done with it.

Edited by kyliesmith.com

350.gifNo.23

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there is an global energy crisis, and therefore most airlines say that holiday flights prizes must rise -and you get air fuels "cheap" ??

you'r Lucky girl !

As said before, i would (or more exactly i do..) use Ethanol. It's not so effective as petrol ( i need now 20% more fuel for the same distance) but it does cost me only 60% of the 100octane "special fuel" available from some brands in the European petrol stations. So what do you really want? An tuning/mapping for high compression race engines, or is your monthly petrol bill just to high !?


*********************************************************************

to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

*********************************************************************

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Gunter as mentioned if the fuel was possibly better for my engine overall I can get it at a much discounted price which at the moment is slightly cheaper than 98 ! So would make sense to look into it. But on the whole no I am not worried about the monthly fuel bill. I dont run a V8 to save costs its there to be used and enjoyed :welcome:


350.gifNo.23

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

your car does also work with 95 and 91 octane fuel, 95/91 is not recommended for full power (as documented in owners handbook) but it does work well in normal road use !

It is also true that the ethanol , or any other high octane fuel can not improve the life/or power output of your engine , just by lift up the octane rate. As long as Marcus did not offer an special high compression mapping and you fit high compression pistons (or you lift up the boost rate..). bud it is cleaner (burns cleaner) than fossil petrol based fuels. Opposite side of this is the wear/heat stress of all surfaces. Now ,without an thin cover of dirt and carbon on the piston alloy i wish i had the coated and forged race pistons in.

So all of my friends, watch out the future story's and updates about my engine. I had experienced good things and bad things in the last months. Just lets say - i do it as an experiment for all of us... !

Edited by G

*********************************************************************

to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

*********************************************************************

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A turbine engine should work on anything, as you say Gunter. I'm not sure what they have a sensor for, but they do. :welcome:

I agree that Bio Ethanol is a superb fuel to use. It's higher octane and cheaper. I can't get it where I live yet, sadly.

Also, Bio Ethanol attacks some types of rubber and plastics, so before using it you need to know the materials used throughout your fuel system.

also, as Gunter and I agree, it will not make your car run any better on it's own without the ECU maps and engine being altered to suit.

It is meant to be a massive improvement on power though if you do! Also, it has no lead in it like the Avgas mentioned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...