Cool plane!

[Bibs]

I wish I'd been at Farnborough to see this but the video is ace, it's quite a piece of kit

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7510364.stm

[dodgy]

i would love to see a dog fight between the raptor and the typhoon

[iainskea]

Nice kit.

I feel so cheap buying the F-35 for 75M+ each.

Iain

Edited July 18, 2008 by iainskea

[molemot]

Fast jet manoeuvering always made me ill....that thing would hospitalise me!!

[russellbosier]

I should be going Sunday, but according to the preliminary online flying programme the F22 was only there for the first trade day which was Monday

It was due to fly at Fairford last weekend but that show was cancelled, so the only glimmer of hope of seeing it would be if they decided to stay at Farnborough as compensation for not being able to display last weekend. Not very likely I'm sure.

[peter_england99]

Bibs,

Don't rub it in. Last Friday I was expecting to see it in the flesh. Sadly, weather spoilt all that.

Regards,

Peter.

[matk]

Raptor would monster the Typhoon unfortunately. We seem to have a track record of designing fighters and then bringing them in miles late and over budget, where upon they are promptly overtaken by later machines.

Just look at the F3 Tornado. So good that it actually saw fighting action in ? (as opposed to simply being sent into a theatre of combat).

[DBredS4]

Typhoon is raved about by the American jocks who fly it on exchange.

It is extremely manouvrable and has an enormous power to weight ratio allowing it to do all the things the Raptor can do. excelerate vertically in the climb etc, supercruise without the need for afterburner, pull 9+g...

[islandbloke]

Yeah - and Douglas Bader wouldn't DREAM of flying anything as gaudy as a Raptor. Anyway, the steering wheel will be on the wrong side and they'll probably call the de-icing boots 'trunks' or something equally silly.

[Jonathan]

2 different planes.

The Typhoon is an swing role interceptor, the F22 is a air superiority aircraft. The former is to replace Nato's Tornado fleet becuase it is an extremely capable figher-bomber (like the old typhoon nerd nerd nerd). The F22 replaces the american F15. Typhoon is comparable to the FA18 imo.

At stand off range the F22 has really low cross section to radar which makes it the 'stelath' fighter it was always ment to be - that drops like a stone the moment the aircraft uses external stores so it's limited to 6 in board missiles if it really wants to stay hidden - 75% of those are long range missiles which is where the big differences are between the 2 aircraft and the tactics they use.

The F22 basically is a hidden sniper - waits for the kill and before the enemy know it they're hit. The typhoon is your old fashioned brawler, dog fight, beyond visual range and also drop all sorts of munitions the F22 can't carry on targets.

Just like in the infantry you have your squadies (bootnecks) your sniper and the support weapons, they all do different jobs.

The concept behind F22 is 1st shot, 1st kill - its a means of getting that missile off before the enemy does - taking into account it's missiles that take aircraft out, the aircraft is a means to deploying the weapon.

Oh the Typhoon is suprisingly agile and stealthy too for it's size - no dissing tornados on this forum either

F3's were used in the Gulf war, all be it for air defence (which is their role hehe) but the IDS torando with the anti runway dispensers (JP233) are just incredible, I believe they're still the only aircraft with that capability.

Plane I really wanna see is the JSF

[fmxa]

And the Raptor has optional gold trim package and heated leather seats!

[matk]

F3s were in the gulf but were very carefully never put into combat situations, they were there purely for political reasons, all the air combat fighting was done by the yanks. Agree the ground attack Tornados were immensely capable and well used, but we're talking about Fighters here. How many F3 kills were there in either Gulf War?

Don't forget the F3 was an afterthought, the Tornado was never originally designed for air superiority, and was never outstanding in the role. The Foxhunter radar never worked originally, and was so late that the F3 went into service with lumps of concrete in the nosecone as the radar wasn't ready in time to be installed. F3 was designed to do long range intercepts of Bear bombers coming round the cape, when the Berlin Wall came down and the Russians stopped flying Bears (they couldn't afford the fuel!) the F3 lost its reason for existence, it was never any good as a dogfighter. The Mig 31/SU 27 would have laughed all over it.

No matter how good Typhoon is, the fact remains that it's come in far over budget and way past the planned in service time.

[Katie]

I saw it Bibs, it was awesome, and almost as loud as your car!

[Jonathan]

Dont you be talking trash about one of my fave planes mat hehe

Spent many an hour in Conningsby HAS messing about with the ground crew. I also worked on the mid-life updates at BAE systems with it, I know it's an old dog now but it's still a cool plane, the upgrades did a lot for it, not many aircraft still round and in front line service after 25-30 years.

Thing is it's pretty much untested. - in the red/maple flags though they performed excellent. It was 2 tornados that took out the AWACs due to the aircrafts long range they got past the patrollers lol. The down side it it's age compared to new aircraft....people moan in cannot compete with MIG29s etc.....no shit....it's an interceptor/patrol aircraft.

I like the F22's vectored thrust, but can't see a pla like that getting to use it in a dog fight....like using a ferrari to do the school run.

Thing is there is tactics and use for each aircraft, take the sea harrier for example - everyone though that was useless but in the falklands it proved itself (with a little help from our excellent american allies).

[russellbosier]

Cant vectored thrust be used in a dogfight to climb rapidly so a chasing plane/missile flies straight underneath? Didn't they achieve this effect with F14/F15 using air brakes.

Havent seen an F22 unfortunately, but I saw the Typhoon at the show yesterday, and to be honest, wasn't overly impressed by its display. Being a delta wing it looked very draggy when pulling out of a dive. What did surprisingly impress me was the A380 display.

[redshift]

Cant vectored thrust be used in a dogfight to climb rapidly so a chasing plane/missile flies straight underneath?

A lot these new generation jets can perform some highly original manoeuvers but they would be of limited tactical use. I think its generally 'a bad thing' to destroy momentum in a dogfight. You may get the target but having lost momentum, his wingman will be all over you like a bad suit...

As for the A380, I remember taking off from Toulouse a couple of days after the maiden flight. We were #2 in a A319 just behind it. Jeez it was BIG

[esprit350]

The A380 is huge, so is the factory in north wales where the wings are built, wing are 40 meters long each, I did some electrical work on the jigs where they assemble the wing, also impressive is the single sheet of alloy the wing is cut from in a differrent buildng on the site, starts off about 4 inches thick, then a computerised milling machine hovers over it and cut slots etc, then it goes into an autoclave to shape it...

[Glyn Harper]

The F22 is quite good.. but can it fly backwards like this Russian beast?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWN3-s9ACpw

[russellbosier]

On the ground the A380 didnt look execssively big, but I suppose that was beacuse it wasn't parked near anything to get a good size comparison, but taking off and in the air it looked enormous. It did some impressive low level turns and fly pasts, and due to its size looked to be flying far too slow to stay in the air at times. Very impressive, but being an unlaiden and apparantly unequiped prototype it must have had a very unrealistic power to weight ratio for the display.

[Glyn Harper]

I love they way the concept videos show the A380 with big plush seats, casinos, fountains.. etc..

I suspect the reality will be that companies like Airtours and Easyjet will buy them, cram in as many seats as they can possibly squeeze in, (barely within the boundaries of CAA law) and then charge

[russellbosier]

It was being promoted with the fact it can take up to something like 820 passengers. Like you say, that doesnt sound like the layout in the pictures.

[esprit350]

Singapore airlines are flying them with an "above first class" grade where you actually get a cabin

clicky

watch the virtual cabin experience

Edited July 22, 2008 by Howard

[matk]

Easyjet/Ryanair won't use them as the landing fees would be too expensive at the only airports it'll fit into.

[Setras]

Between getting things ready for the MOT i took these from the back garden

edited because i for got these

Edited July 22, 2008 by Setras