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Live 02 data for you to view


kyliesmith.com

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These arent moving much at all but not completly dead either. Is it possible theres muck on the sensors clogging them or sure sign they are going to die. These are post cat.

Something to consider - my car is running the red race ECU and decatted straight pipes with mufflers. Im thinking the oxygen is getting burnt up pre cat and by the time it gets further down theres not much happening?

These are pre cat and look healthy jumping from rich to lean.

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I forgot to mention I recently replaced Sensor 1 bank 2 which threw up the correct code was causing my car to cut out. The engine now feels really good and starts from hot ok. No codes are being thrown up - Perhaps I should take pic it may last longer :P

Edited by kyliesmith.com
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strangely, I'm experiencing the same.

Standard ECU but with CAT bypass pipes and sports exhaust.

Arh interesting so really the second sensors intended for the cats are no use on decatted systems anyway ? :P

Kylie,

That doesn't look healthy to me. My O2 sensors certainly replicate your Bank 1 ones. Just out of interest, were you open or closed loop at the time you recorded the Bank 2 sensors? Had the O2 sensors had time to warm up?

Regards,

Peter.

Hi Peter,

I did manage to take some still images of the live data from other areas if asked for theres bound to be other issues :P readings were taken approx 5-7mins after start-up. Perhaps I need to read again after a drive when everythings really toasty?

mapsensorenginerpm.jpg

coolanttemp5minafterstartup.jpg

Fuelopenandclosedloop.jpg

This one below a bit blurry sorry

ignitiontiming.jpg

Edited by kyliesmith.com
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Hi Peter,

I did manage to take some still images of the live data from other areas if asked for theres bound to be other issues :P readings were taken approx 5-7mins after start-up. Perhaps I need to read again after a drive when everythings really toasty?

Fuelopenandclosedloop.jpg

Kylie,

The OBD reader is showing that you are "Open Loop (Det)" on Fuel System 2. So I would drive the car and make sure that both Fuel systems go into 'Closed Loop'. Could you have a problem with the O2 Sensor heater element?

I found this text online O2 Sensor Information that discusses O2 Sensor issues and there are some similarity (underlined in text) with your case:

How does an O2 sensor work?

An Oxygen sensor is a chemical generator. It is constantly making a comparison between the Oxygen inside the exhaust manifold and air outside the engine. If this comparison shows little or no Oxygen in the exhaust manifold, a voltage is generated. The output of the sensor is usually between 0 and 1.1 volts. All spark combustion engines need the proper air fuel ratio to operate correctly. For gasoline this is 14.7 parts of air to one part of fuel. When the engine has more fuel than needed, all available Oxygen is consumed in the cylinder and gasses leaving through the exhaust contain almost no Oxygen. This sends out a voltage greater than 0.45 volts. If the engine is running lean, all fuel is burned, and the extra Oxygen leaves the cylinder and flows into the exhaust. In this case, the sensor voltage goes lower than 0.45 volts. Usually the output range seen seen is 0.2 to 0.7 volts. The sensor does not begin to generate it's full output until it reaches about 600 degrees F. Prior to this time the sensor is not conductive. It is as if the circuit between the sensor and computer is not complete. The mid point is about 0.45 volts. This is neither rich nor lean. A fully warm O2 sensor *will not spend any time at 0.45 volts*. In many cars, the computer sends out a bias voltage of 0.45 through the O2 sensor wire. If the sensor is not warm, or if the circuit is not complete, the computer picks up a steady 0.45 volts. Since the computer knows this is an "illegal" value, it judges the sensor to not be ready. It remains in open loop operation, and uses all sensors except the O2 to determine fuel delivery. Any time an engine is operated in open loop, it runs somewhat rich and makes more exhaust emissions. This translates into lost power, poor fuel economy and air pollution. The O2 sensor is constantly in a state of transition between high and low voltage. Manufacturers call this crossing of the 0.45 volt mark O2 cross counts. The higher the number of O2 cross counts, the better the sensor and other parts of the computer control system are working. It is important to remember that the O2 sensor is comparing the amount of Oxygen inside and outside the engine. If the outside of the sensor should become blocked, or coated with oil, sound insulation, undercoating or antifreeze, (among other things), this comparison is not possible.

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02 Heater element - can you point in the direction where to find this.

Ill take the car for a run tom and read data again. :P

Peter the info is fantastic and really appreciate all this. Im learning heaps about my motor in such a short time. But its unfortunate when things arent going perfect is when we have to figure it out and then we learn. Oh well :)

Right ill sign off till the morning..night night :P

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The heater element is just a metal clip close to the thread of the sensor, I believe it's served by a pink wire?

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02 Heater element - can you point in the direction where to find this.

The O2 heater element is built into the O2 sensor. The Esprit V8 O2 sensor has 4 wires. 2 of which supply current for the built in heaters. There is a relay that switches the current on/off to the heaters when required.

You mentioned that you recently changed the O2 sensor. Was this sensor the official Lotus part, or was it an equivalent part?

Hopefully, one of the V8 technical gurus will be able to add to this thread.

Regards,

Peter.

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Hi Kylie,

Sorry for my late chime in.

You definitely have a problem with the pre cat sensor bank 2.

The post cat sensors dont play a (big) role here with your Red-ECU (non US I hope) code.

Get this pre cat O2-sensor replaced by the corect one and you will see that it will jump into closed loop and will act equal/similar like your bank 1.

Cheers

Marcus

Marcus

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Thanks all guys really helpful information. The replacement sensor was done through my Lotus Service agent to ensure the correct sensor was used. He did mention the old one on there was aftermarket and had a different plug or something which he had to change back. So assuming hes gone back to the OEM stuff I dont know if it were an equiv one or not. What should be the correct ref part so I can ask him?

Talon the car does start after its warm but sometimes a little slow, I mean cranks over after a few seconds and not instant but always manage to start it. I thought this was a bonus considering hearing your guys troubles of a much longer start or failing to start full stop.

In any case another excuse for a blat after work today and ill read the data again, just so this can be eliminated before I go further.

I got the Lotus 60th Birthday tour coming up next month so I want the car to be running well.

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As an 'quick fix' -use the second of the two from the good side and put it in position of the faulty front sensor.

You will see an change in data reading if it was the sensor (as all four sensors are of the same specification...)

If one, or more sensors have problems with the pre-heater element inside , don't let them in the car to long. Corroded contacts (under the metal cap visible above the spanner section) can bridge the heater current against earth. That blows the B7 fuse and brings you into trouble with stupid fault codes...... (see 4 Cylinder section in workshop-book , "fuses/relays")

Edited by G

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to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

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Ok finally got better daylight to record some movies after a failed attempt in the evening in low light.

A pic below of the fuel open/closed loop. I took the car for a run and took all the live data afterwards.

liveenginedataopenclosedfuelloop7se.jpg

live engine data

02 sensor 1 bank 1 02 sensor 2 bank 1

02 sensor 1 bank 2 and 02 sensor 2 bank 2

Code is up for sensor 1 bank 2 which I will not try clearing until this little sensor is sorted. But see what you guys think anyway.

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Kylie,

I'm assuming that you couldn't get fuel system 2 to go into closed loop.

If you are keen to work on the car, then I'd do what Gunter suggested and swap bank 2 sensor 1 with bank 2 sensor 2, then hopefully (assuming sensor 2 is OK) Fuel system 2 will go into closed loop. Alternatively, bite the bullet and get a new sensor fitted.

Regards,

Peter.

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have you tried the 'interchange' way !? It's a bit "tricky" to fight against the rust on the treat-seats, but if it is loose than you can mix them all.

*********************************************************************

to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

*********************************************************************

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Kylie,

I'm assuming that you couldn't get fuel system 2 to go into closed loop.

If you are keen to work on the car, then I'd do what Gunter suggested and swap bank 2 sensor 1 with bank 2 sensor 2, then hopefully (assuming sensor 2 is OK) Fuel system 2 will go into closed loop. Alternatively, bite the bullet and get a new sensor fitted.

Regards,

Peter.

Hi Peter is there something I should be doing to try and get the fuel system 2 in closed loop other than just a drive? We can do this ourselves but as our Loti tech replaced the problem sensor and its still not working he can jolly well fix it :rant: Save me another $180NZD if I had to take car somewhere else. I am going to forward him my logs and see what he says too.

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Kylie,

Based on the fact that you drove far/long enough for bank 1 to go 'closed loop', I'd say you did enough to prove that you have a problem with the sensor 1 on bank 2. Also sounds sensible to get the company that installed the sensor to fix it under warranty.

Regards,

Peter.

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So is there an new sensor in the 'o.47 volt' reading position ?? i hope the tech guy has proved that all wires up to the ECM connector are in good condition. Especially as in some points the wiring/harness of the car is only covered with textile tape.... .

*********************************************************************

to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

*********************************************************************

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Interesting guys ill get him to verify that. Gunter I should have just swapped the sensors over to elimate this as you said, but I am feeling unmotivated this last week and suffering from lazybumitis to get it up on jack stands again. :rant:

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Oh my dear "lazybumitis", thats an high risk illness !? Kylie -you can see what this will do with your car, just watch what my looks now....

*********************************************************************

to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

*********************************************************************

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