Dyno results with intercoolers

[CCMDoc]

and Marcus Red Race chipset. Not too happy with A/F ratio - too rich - I suspect a few more ponies to be had if it were cleaned up a bit more.

Best run produced 358HP. Interestingly, HP and torque increased as temps rose - usually goes the other way.

[hovgaard]

Don't go leaner without keeping an eye on your exhaust gas temperature.

Keeping EGT sufficiently low for durability is usually the reason for running rich at high load.

It could prove to be false economy to change this.

[CCMDoc]

Don't go leaner without keeping an eye on your exhaust gas temperature.

Keeping EGT sufficiently low for durability is usually the reason for running rich at high load.

It could prove to be false economy to change this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I see. I am all for maintaining durability despite my quest for HP and torque. Thanks for the advice.

[hovgaard]

Running rich also supresses knock to some extent, that could be another reason.

[Rob]

Did you dyno with just the ecu, ie just the ecu changes? I'm interested in what level you added over the chip by adding the intercoolers?

Have you still got cats?

Good results

[CCMDoc]

Did you dyno with just the ecu, ie just the ecu changes?  I'm interested in what level you added over the chip by adding the intercoolers?

Have you still got cats?

Good results

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Rob,

Only performance mods are intercoolers, Marcus' chips and straight pipes after cats. Cats are still on and A/F ratio is from one tailpipe. Just to clarify a question raised elsewhere - these are actual rear wheel numbers from a Dynojet 242.

[Paula&Marcus]

Hi Paul,

Your graphs look good !

Seems to be around 11:1 A/F when on open loop mode. This is just right. I personally would not take the risk to run a 12:1 @ WOT @ full boost in open loop.

If you like you could do just one dyno run with 30% or 50% throttle ... you will see that it will stay significantly leaner then ;o)

Marcus

www.PUKesprit.de

Edited October 28, 2005 by Paula&Marcus

[bimmabimma]

Hi Paul,

Your graphs look good !

Seems to be around 11:1 A/F when on open loop mode. This is just right. I personally would not take the risk to run a 12:1 @ WOT @ full boost in open loop.

If you like you could do just one dyno run with 30% or 50% throttle ... you will see that it will stay significantly leaner then ;o)

Marcus

www.PUKesprit.de

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ya those are perfect Air fuel ratios for a turbo, NA you want 12.1-13.1 but turbo you want 10-11.5 b/c knock is the LAST THING u want on a turbo (KABOOOM!).

[bimmabimma]

FYI...

350 wheel HP = 420 crank HP

320 wheel TQ = 385 crank torque

those are great numbers for the mods you have.

[bimmabimma]

also, you might wanna think about this hanger111 high performance cats, they are a real bargain and help out flow tremedously. high flow cats with your exhaust and your setup will really produce some serious gains.

[CCMDoc]

also,  you might wanna think about this hanger111 high performance cats, they are a real bargain and help out flow tremedously.  high flow cats with your exhaust and your setup will really produce some serious gains.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I may give those a try, but before I do, will probably remove cats entirely and do a run with "test" pipes. The other thing will be ITG air filters.

Thanks for the advice.

[bimmabimma]

I may give those a try, but before I do, will probably remove cats entirely and do a run with "test" pipes. The other thing will be ITG air filters.

Thanks for the advice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ya im already suprised you have not done air filters, thats usually the first mod you are supposed to do. it would be interested to see results with just straight pipes. im sure it would give tremendous results but would probably be rediculously loud

[Htown]

FYI...

350 wheel HP = 420 crank HP

320 wheel TQ = 385 crank torque

those are great numbers for the mods you have.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

20%! driveline loss?

[CCMDoc]

20%! driveline loss? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never do those calculations as there is a great deal of controvery regarding driveline losses. Besides, it is my belief that what gets to the ground is what is important. Nevertheless, these numbers would actually represent a driveline loss of 16%, not 20% at least for the HP.

[Paula&Marcus]

Hi All,

Driveline loss for an Esprit is around 13-18% (depends on tranny condition, type of oil in tranny, temperature and last but not least tyres !)

Cheers

Marcus

[bimmabimma]

i did not do 20%, i did 17% which is usually accurate for most applications.

[Htown]

i did not do 20%, i did 17% which is usually accurate for most applications.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

November 03, dynojet 248x, bone stock 1990 SE...yes, bone stock everything. 262whp and 309ft-lbs at the wheels.

I sincerely doubt I was making 316bhp and 372ft-lbs at the crank.(using 17%) I only bring this up to point out that dyno's are in no way an accurate way of determining power levels. They are tools, plain and simple, for tuning.

[bimmabimma]

November 03, dynojet 248x, bone stock 1990 SE...yes, bone stock everything.  262whp and 309ft-lbs at the wheels.

I sincerely doubt I was making 316bhp and 372ft-lbs at the crank.(using 17%)  I only bring this up to point out that dyno's are in no way an accurate way of determining power levels.  They are tools, plain and simple, for tuning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well dynojets are not accurate you are correct, but Dyno Dynamics dyno's and mustang dynos' (loading dynos) are much much more accurate then the typical dynojet). obviously only way to get actual engine HP is pull it out of the car and put it on a engine dyno. but loading dynos are far more accurate than just a big rolling wheel dyno. so if you can dyno on a loading dyno... it s MUCH better, after using one, i refuse to go back to a dynojet.

[DanR]

A dyno operator connected wirh a major aussie aftermarket EFI manufacturer, told me it's quite easy to fudge dyno results. Done often, so different shops can claim their modification work is better than their competition. Something as simple as heating the dyno's air sensor with a lighter, depending which way they want the readouts to go. He listed other tricks I can't recall such as correction factors.

Therefore not really a useful tool when comparing different cars on different days and different dynos. It's real benefit is to map the progress of the car that's being tested/modified.

Edited October 29, 2005 by DanR1201

[bimmabimma]

A dyno operator connected wirh a major aussie aftermarket EFI manufacturer, told me it's quite easy to fudge dyno results. Done often, so different shops can claim their modification work is better than their competition. Something as simple as heating the dyno's air sensor with a lighter, depending which way they want the readouts to go. He listed other tricks I can't recall such as correction factors.

Therefore not really a useful tool when comparing different cars on different days and different dynos. It's real benefit is to map the progress of the car that's being tested/modified.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i agree, that is true with most dynos, but all dyno dynamics dynos will dyno within 1HP of each other regardless of conditions or anything. but ya, dynojets can vary by as much at 10-15 HP depending on conditions, as well as, how the dyno has been calibrated.

[Paula&Marcus]

i agree, that is true with most dynos, but all dyno dynamics dynos will dyno within 1HP of each other regardless of conditions or anything.  but ya, dynojets can vary by as much at 10-15 HP depending on conditions, as well as, how the dyno has been calibrated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi All,

To my experience dynos vary between 5-15% ... thats quite a lot ! Even if they are calibrated correctly you will get significant differences with same car on same dyno-type. IMHO there are just too many factors that will have influence on the reading.

IMHO a dyno is not a very useful tool for getting usefull data from your engine since they do all the readings at WOT. Whats going on at 30% ?

Marcus

[CCMDoc]

Think there will be any gain with change infilters to ITG and a de-cat?

[mchlrodrigues]

Paul,

You'ver run up against one of the limitations of the OEM ECU. The firmware of the ECU is programmed to dump fuel via the secondary injectors whenever boost exceeds 0.8 or 0.85 bar. Changing the fuel map won't do anything to resolve the problem. The fuel dump in a Lotus safety feature to avoid detonation in the absence of intercooling. Unfortunately it occurs independent of IAT.

Mike Sekinger encountered the same problem with his GT1 replica and eventually switched to a MoTeC ECU. You might considered disconnecting one of the secondary injectors and carefully monitoring the A/F with a wide band A/F meter. If you can determine what A/F the motor would like to see probably ~ 12:1 +/- 0.5, and estimate the amount of fuel to get there, you may be able to install smaller secondary injectors to arrive closer to the desire A/F.

[mchlrodrigues]

I sincerely doubt I was making 316bhp and 372ft-lbs at the crank.(using 17%) I only bring this up to point out that dyno's are in no way an accurate way of determining power levels. They are tools, plain and simple, for tuning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[gmendoza]

Hi Rob,

Only performance mods are intercoolers, Marcus' chips and straight pipes after cats. Cats are still on and A/F ratio is from one tailpipe. Just to clarify a question raised elsewhere - these are actual rear wheel numbers from a Dynojet 242.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How much boost were you running? Did you actually get the 1 bar the red ECU tries to get?