AP brake pads & disks

[T-Man 0]

My 2000 V8 is fitted with AP brakes and I'm told I need new front & rears - coming in at around

[kyliesmith.com 3]

No you are not limited to just these and now there are quite a few people on the case here with affordable high performance parts:

Look at:

http://www.pukesprit.de/

or

Espritperformace.com

You cannot buy direct from AP Racing as the PCD is unique to Lotus.

[Daniel 265]

What's wrong with the calipers which requires them to be replaced?

[kyliesmith.com 3]

I think hes referring to disc rotors

[Daniel 265]

OK, I was assuming from the figures he was talking that he meant calipers as well.

I recently replaced disks and pads on my 350 with items from PNM.

I think the disks are only a couple of hundred quid each.

[superdavelotus 124]

Like Daniel says PNM do them or I can

Front Discs and Bells

They work out exactly the same price as PNM with VAT on. Choice is yours.

Dave Walters

[sanj 12]

Is that price per disc, or per pair?

[superdavelotus 124]

It's for a pair!

[sanj 12]

Thanks!

[Bibs 11,370]

I think the

[Jonathan 13]

Esp when I can change them for

Edited September 30, 2008 by Jonathan

[cweeden 176]

I have finished my brake upgrade. I suffered from fade at Bedford last November which was really due to the fluid boiling. I suspect it had never been changed. Rather than just changing the fluid I thought I would move away from the Lotus AP setup. This is mainly because of the way they lock you in to Lotus supplied AP parts rather than standard AP parts and then charge the ridiculous amount we have seen quoted above.

I kept the AP calipers (I can upgrade these to 6 pot later if necessary but I am doubtful that will be the case) but had new mounting bells made to accept standard AP discs. I chose 343mm x 32mm since I have been taught, never replace always upgrade.

The calipers needed to be spaced out a little further to accept the larger discs. Since the calipers are only officially rated at 330mm diameter discs I checked with AP for their suitability and they didn't tell me not to do it. The spacers are an interference fit into the original mounting bracket for additional security.

I had to move the calipers out a little further than I really wanted to just to make sure the edges of the caliper didn't foul the disc.

This had the knock on affect of pushing the top edge of the pad over the edge of the disc. Fortunately the pads sit on stainless steel plates in the caliper. These are screwed in place from the underside of the caliper. This meant it was easy to shim the plates which lowered the pads in the caliper and brought them back into alignment on the disc.

They fill the wheel nicely and there is still plenty of clearance.

I am running Pagid Blue pads but I need to get a spare set for a trip to the Ring in a couple of weeks time. I would like to know which track biased pads people go for. I don't mind a little lack of bite when cold (a heavy foot will still stop the car on cold pads if really necessary) I am just fed up with having to nanny brakes on track (had a stock 87 Turbo HC and a V8 GT with Brembo brakes and $h!t Ferodo DS3000 pads) and hope this will fix it once and for all. I had Mintex 1144 on the HC and they were pretty good, the Ferodo's were terrible. After a 3rd of a lap of the Ring I had scuttle shake to match that of my old clapped out Spitfire. I had to ditch them to cure the judder. The Pagid Blues have been pretty good but I think I could stand something a little more track focussed.

What pads would you go for and where can I get them and for how much?

cheers

-Chris

Edited October 7, 2008 by cweeden

[Jonathan 13]

Very nice, I must admit when I get around to fitting my APs I was going to go 330x32 - who done your bells ?

I was going to get them done at some point but I lost the contact details of the guy so it kinda stalled.

On the GT2 I was hoping to introduce an aditional cooling duct for the brakes - is that not an option for the S350 ?

Just wondering if you could fit 2 grilled NACA scoops or similar to the underside and point some air at them to cool them down a bit.

Anyone tried water misting for brakes ? Small bottle in the front compartment with 2 tubes going down to a small difuser nozze that every 10 secs or so gives a mist of water onto the frictional surface. not enough to rust it or cause a crack but can help to control the temperature so I have been told ?

[cweeden 176]

I asked GTO engineering (after they upgraded my Gearbox) but they were too busy and pointed me at Techcraft who does work for them. It wasn't cheap but still cheaper than the Lotus originals and teh bells are really good quality. All in (discs, bells, spacers and machining) it was about

[red vtec 186]

Been following this as I want to upgrade my brakes sometime.

Regarding the cooling I have seen brake cooling ducts fitted to Audi RS6 cars I belive they are off a VW Phaeton. I'm sure this could be adapted. I will try and find the link to the page ah here it is!

http://forums.audiworld.com/rs6/msgs/33746.phtml

Is this any good?

Edited October 7, 2008 by red vtec

[kyliesmith.com 3]

Very very nice Re the pads Ive had great success with Mintex 1166 front and rears with uprated fluids of course on the 89Turbo. I would have them on this car in a flash and yes they take a few stomps to warm up and can be noisy if glazed over but worth it. The reason I havent got them on this car is they really eat your discs big time and the hassle getting more discs made and sent from UK could be a pain.

Most people wont upgrade their fluids just for the occasional track day and wonder why their new uprated pads arent good enough. Its an all round package to sort out.

Anyway what are you doing for the rears? Always thought the tiny brembos in there looks very out of place.

[cweeden 176]

I am not planning on doing anything to the rears beyond better pads. I am hopeful that the balance hasn't been affected too much and I am pretty sure the rears have a much easier time than the fronts. We will see. If I have to go the 6 pot caliper route (or if I just want to ) on the front then I can move the 4 pots to the rear but that is more money I don't have.

I found this great comparison of brake pads on the AP site which is a font of information (the mintex site sucks)

If you want a full description of each column visit http://www.apracing.com/info/info.asp?sect...acteristics_105

For most values 5 is best and 1 is worst except for pad wear which is reversed (assuming I have read it correctly).

I am leaning towards the Pagid RS14 pads (or maybe the APF103) since they seem to have a pretty good average and are kind to the discs! I was surprised to read the following description on the stop-tech website...

"Pagid RS 14 (Black) is a full race pad with a medium-to-high friction level. It is a ceramic-type compound with very good modulation, high fade resistance, low heat conductivity, and a good wear rate up to a temperature 1,200

[cweeden 176]

Does anyone know if it is possible to modify the ABS on the later V8s so it can be switched on and off easily?

Although the AP setup is much better than the Brembos, I still find the ABS is a little too eager.

cheers

-Chris

[Jonathan 13]

Switchable fuse ?

It's good becuase the warning light comes on as well to tell you it's not working - you could easily run 2 wires into a suitable sized switch inside the car, under the dash (ie current rating not physical size) and put the fuse inline with that - that's what I'd do

[cweeden 176]

Not sure how that will work. The wiring diagram shows the wheel speed sensors being connected to the ABS control unit and this then has outputs to the ECU so it might throw a Check Engine Light and maybe enter limp home mode?

I am wondering if Marcus could shed some light on this one?

cheers

-Chris

[Bibs 11,370]

Derrick Oliver did this on his S4s, he had a switch hidden up in the binnacle. There may be details of it on here somewhere?

[peter_england99 6]

There is indeed an ECU error code that results from a non working ABS system:

"PO501 Vehicle Speed Sensor"

Description: Rationality checks - looks at the road speed signals when the engine is in

overrun, (engine braking). The vehicle speed signal is taken from the

ABS system, which in turn uses the vehicle speed sensors. The engine

management system uses only one channel - Rear right hand wheel

speed.

Malfunction Criteria: Vehicle speed < 5 MPH

Secondary enable conditions: Throttle closed; MAP < 225 mbar (22.5 kPa); engine speed < 3000 rpm

Disabled by faults: None

Time required: 2 seconds; 2 trips required

Potential failure modes: - Connectors

- Wiring short or open circuit

- ABS system fault

- Sensor fault.

Limp home: Vehicle speed = 0 is assumed

I also think that the insurance company would need to be informed that the ABS is being disabled. Without ABS on the road there will be an increased risk of an accident (that's why virtually every car made today has ABS).

I do agree that the ABS seems to kick in too early.

Regards,

Peter.

[Jonathan 13]

S4S is different to the V8 though - it might cock the ECU around but you only have to pull the fuse and find out !

[2003 V8 TT 0]

There's a complete set of Esprit V8 AP brakes (rotors + caliper + pads) on eBay right now. Could be the deal of the century:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lotus-Espri...emZ170271610084

[Bibs 11,370]

Lotuspbc is probably Lotus Prepared By Cladius in which case they will have a significant reserve price set.