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superdavelotus

Car won't idle when warm

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Hi all,

Here's one for the techies, I've run out of options!

Ever since getting my car back from the garage after having work done to engine, which meant the plenum came off and also had work over L/H tank area, my car won't idle when warm.

It's starts cold without the throttle and revs at about 1200 revs then slowly goes down to 950RPM. I can drive the car for an hour and it will not stall. The moment I stop the engine and try to restart it, the engine fires for about 1-2 seconds and dies. I've can put foot on throttle and it will rev but the moment I take my foot off it dies.

Her'e the funny bit, when hot and I put my air con on, start the car with a bit of throttle, it revs OK, take my foot off and it will idle fine. Switch my air con off and it dies!

I ordered a new air idle control valve and fitted that yesterday but no joy. I took the car out and drove for half an hour or so. before this, I started the car several times so it would learn.

Today I plugged the old one in on top of the engine so see how it works. With no power the valve is slightly open. When you do a cold start the valve id fully open and you get the higher revs for the warm up cycle. When engine reaches temperature, nothing happens but if I turn the engine off and try starting it again, the valve is completely shut. this is what is causing the engine not to idle I think but I don't know why the valve is fully closed?

This is what I've checked or changed since problem:-

Brand new Idle air control valve.

Band new plenum gaskets and surfaces recleaned

Band new charcoal canister

Brand new fuel filter

Checked all sensor connections

Checked most of vacuum pipes

Took plenum off and rechecked connections with manual

Took power from ECU by taking ECU connector off (not sure if this resets ECU or not)

Do I need to reset the ECU?

Oh, I don't have any check lights on only when I unplugged my idle control valve and charcoal canister when testing.

I've ruled out engine temperature sensor as it wouldn't start at all if this was faulty, right?

On Gendan, temperature reads pretty much as gauge.

Checked breather pipes.

Engine always runs smooth even when it won't idle and I have to put my foot on the throttle. No other systems apart from a funny dump valve kind of noise when the car stalls when hot. This sounds like the air idle control valve?

Iam at a loss and really need some help please!!!!!!!!

Why is such a small problem pissed you off SO badly?

Dave Walters

Edited by superdavelotus

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Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

The engine would definatly start if the temp sensor was at fault. There are only very few sensors that would stop an engine eg crank sensor, cam sensor. Could try resetting the ecu, won't hurt and it only takes a few minutes.

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Hi Dave,

Already done this but I don't think I left it long enough. I've done a search and gone through all the other threads but nothing is exactly the same problem as mine. I've since unplugged the ECU fuse as per Joey's thread about resetting the ECU. I will leave it until the morning now and plug it back in. I'll also follow Joey's guide in the morning.

It's really getting to me now as I've replaced so many things and taken the plenum off twice!

Dave Walters

ps. My gendan reads the correct temp and fans come in. Would this mean my engine temp is OK?

Oh, forgot to mention that if I unplug the Idle Air control valve, it starts and idles al the time, albeit a normal idle (not higher when cold). This is because the IACV is slightly open without power (default) and allows to idle.

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Have you checked the temps when it won't idle. Probably won't be this as if a sensor fault occurs the ecu will switch to a default setting. With a temp sensor fault i know alot of ecu's will 'think' the temperature is at it's extreme lowest setting and adjust the fueling/ignition to compensate. Possibly an ecu fault but i don't have any wiring diagrams so it's only a wild stab in the dark.

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Dave,

I've had very similar symptons but its intermittant. Fortunately it seems OK most of the time at the moment so I'm living with it. I suspect I'll have to go down your route eventually though, but I might wait for the next service if it doesn't get any worse.

Anyhow I posted the fault (plus an epileptic speedo problem) and that nice man Brian Angus from the factory PM'd me with a few suggestions for both problems. Great to see the guys at the factory keep an eye on LEF. Here's an extract from his message about the idle problem:

"The idle thing does sound strange. Something else to look for is contamination of the IAC(Idle Air Control) Valve.

We have seen instances where the inlet hose from the Air Filter to Turbo has split. This can happen where the hose comes down from the filter housing on the engine bay sidewall round the chassis ind into the Turbo inlet.

It is difficult to see the split in the pipe but close examination will reveal any problem. If the pipe is split 'dirty air' can be drawn in and this can contaminare tge IAC Valve and cause Idle Problems"

One more thing to check. Good luck. If you get it sorted, let me know!

Edited by hedgerley

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Hi Mark,

The left hand turbo inlet pipe has been moved so I will check this out. I did check a short section of it yesterday. Saying that, I put a brand new Idle Air control valve on Wednesday so the problem should have gone away even for short term if I had this problem.

I do need to speak to Brian on Monday about this problem. Iam already exchanging a lot of emails lately about another ongoing issue which Iam assisting Lotus with.

I spoke to a very unhelpful chap at technical yesterday (the only guy in on Friday afternoon). He asked whether my car was at a dealer. I said it was at a Lotus Independant Specialist. He then told me to take it to a dealer to have them put it on their diagnostic. How helpful is that when I already have a code reader but I don't have any engine check light on? I did point this out to him.

I also asked how to reset the ECU on the car. He told me to take it to a dealer again or send to back to Lotus where they would reflash it! Not the answer I was looking for.

Top and bottom, a complete waste of time.

Update! I've reset ECU and it works much better this time. It sometimes stalls but I haven't driven it enough. It's now virtually every other time as opposed to every time.

Started it this afternoon and it's starts OK even when hot.

Iam going to take it for a run this evening whilst my wife and daughter are out at a kids party.

Hopefully I will have some good news, fingers crossed!!!!

Dave Walters

Update 2!

I've driven my V8 to a local friend's house and around this evening and it's never stalled. Tried several times to stop then restart again and not once did it stall!!!

I am over the moon now the problem has resolved. Bit miffed I've changed so many bits but most needed replacing anyway.

My idle air control valve needed doing because revs took ages to die down in traffic and would go below 1000RPM unless it stood for a couple of minutes. So Iam glad I did this. It's a worth while part to replace if you have an erratic idle.

I think at this point, I should have reset my ECU.

Iam also glad I took my plenum off as I notice a mistake on one of the pipework by the garage who did the original work. Also I completely cleaned the plenum and intake surfaces and put new gaskets on. So Iam happy with that.

It's all the pipework and charcoal canister etc which took me ages Iam miffed about.

Dave Walters

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Hi all,

Forgot to mention, this idea of resetting the ECU was all down to Adrian AKA Snuffy! Yes, it's hard to believe our Victor Meldrew of the LEF community who's fled Esprit ownership to Noble ownership, came to my rescue.

Adrian, I can't praise you on here without a little dig too!

Iam out with Adrian and Lincoln in Chester on the pop all day. I have been discussing with Adrian about selling my V8 for a more family friendly car. Discussions will continue tomorrow over a few pints.

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Hi Kylie,

If I can find something to replace it with with 4 seats or 2+2 then it has to go unfortunately. Next week Iam going to test drive a couple of cars.

I love my Esprit to bits, it's just that the past couple of years, I've also enjoyed going on holidays. I really want to go away about 3 times a year. Running 3 cars and one of which I hardly use, it makes sense to sell the Esprit and my Saab convertible and buy one car that ticks most boxes.

If thre's nothing out there then I will keep my Esprit and sell the Saab.

Dave

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just my toughs:

the SAAB ->contact Tim (s_pri)

the Esprit ->contact Roger (Esprit V8)

and buy an late Excel... :P

or an ordinary AUDI estate car with TDI engine. It's the best for holidays with the family (and half of the house..)

(OK, can understand your meanings, bud without an nice girl i can still make jokes about stressed and :D 'family guys')


*********************************************************************

to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

*********************************************************************

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Hi Gunter,

nice to hear from you again. Glad you got sorted on the parts from Pam and I hope you get your engine sorted out soon. Sorry I missed you at the factory maybe one day we'll meet up.

I'll only part with my Esprit if I find something that will ticked most boxes. Iam thinking 911 or Maserati 3200 or 4200. The only down side with Maserati is Ferrari running costs althogh the initial pruchase price is cheap.

If I sell the Saab it'll be a cheap run around for under

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What's about the earlier four seater maserati quattroporte (from the 90th, with those biturbo V6/ shamal V8 engines)!? Those are cheap overhere. Not the latest Fiat/Ferrari build-quality, bud as you have sorted out the life with an Lotus V8, than i think you can handle those 'Italian diva' behavior of the V6 biturbos... .

or you go to the jag-front, they have nice compressor powered sedans (as we can hear :D ..)

PS. can understand that after an Esprit V8 you always want some sort of acceleration power , even in an more 'family friendly car'

And no worries about the factory met, was an enjoying moment as Kimbers get me the right boxes.. . (he's quite handy in such things, could do that more often :P )

Pam was an strange thing indeed, and after all i can really recommend her. OK, none would ever expect to find those parts in that area -"bud you never know"

If i can manage to get more stuff from her i will do it (need valves,gaskets). For now I'm happy that i can refit the valve guide and make that heat ready for 'return to live'


*********************************************************************

to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

*********************************************************************

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Again the thought of Dave leaving the fold makes me feel a little ill. Do you realsie your one of the main backbones to keeping our cars on the road?? Well you are and many people like me would be at loss if you didnt keep coming to rescue for everyone.

Sell the Saab. Or take the V8 for a spirited drive on some empty roads to remind you what you would be missing.

No edit key bibs?

Forgot to add, A holiday to NZ Dave?


350.gifNo.23

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Do you realsie your one of the main backbones to keeping our cars on the road?? Well you are and many people like me would be at loss if you didnt keep coming to rescue for everyone.

Well put Kylie!

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Again the thought of Dave leaving the fold makes me feel a little ill. Do you realsie your one of the main backbones to keeping our cars on the road?? Well you are and many people like me would be at loss if you didnt keep coming to rescue for everyone.

Sell the Saab. Or take the V8 for a spirited drive on some empty roads to remind you what you would be missing.

No edit key bibs?

Forgot to add, A holiday to NZ Dave?

Hi Kylie, I've love a holiday in NZ, it's one of the places I'd most like to go. I know we've spoken about this on previous ocassions. I will get to NZ one day.

Iam off to test drive a 996 C4s convertible today. I'll be taking the Esprit.

I always get a thrill when driving my Esprit and it always puts a smile on my face. I don't doubt for one minute that I'll miss and regret getting rid of it when the time comes.

Dave Walters

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I also asked how to reset the ECU on the car. He told me to take it to a dealer again or send to back to Lotus where they would reflash it! Not the answer I was looking for.

Update! I've reset ECU and it works much better this time. It sometimes stalls but I haven't driven it enough. It's now virtually every other time as opposed to every time.

Started it this afternoon and it's starts OK even when hot.

Update 2!

I've driven my V8 to a local friend's house and around this evening and it's never stalled. Tried several times to stop then restart again and not once did it stall!!!

At the risk of sounding "dense," Dave, did you in fact have to take the car to the dealer (or send the ECU to Lotus) for the reset? Or was a longer powerdown sufficient? Glad the little beggar decided to come 'round. I was beginning to think that ECU stood for "Excessively Cantankerous and Upsetting"!

Have you considered holding on to the Esprit long enough to trade it in for the [4 seated] Evora? If you look up "Evora target audience" in the dictionary, I think there's a picture of you next to it! :D Just a thought.

I've only been a forum member for a short while, but in that time it's been patently obvious to me that you have helped others out on numerous occasions. Here's hoping you don't abandon ship too swiftly.

Cheers,

John


Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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Hi John,

Update on my Esprit. I hadn't used it since Saturday and took it 2 miles down the road to my local Lotus garage. Outside, I tried to restart it straight awya and it wouldn't idle. It would always start for about 1-2 seconds then conk out. I tried about 6 times and no use. So I let the temperature cool down low enough for it to do a cool start gain and took it for another drive for about an hour. Tried 15 times stoppig the engine and then back again and it started and idled about 12 out of 15. I am little dissappointed at first because I thought I had got to the bottom of the problem. I've realised that since resetting the ECU, I've only done about 20-25 miles which really isn't enough, then I put the car away until today.

I've done another 30-40 miles and it does seem to be getting better.

How long do you think it will take to completely learn and stop stalling when I tried to start it without any throttle?

With regards to car, Iam in no doubt that the car looks and goes better than any replacement under

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where was that time in which both pumps start to work (for more/or more stable fuel pressure: the start and the full load period , right ??

Have you checked that the fuel pressure is always within the limits for an sufficient spray in the first time of cranking ?


*********************************************************************

to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

*********************************************************************

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Hi Gunter,

If they weren't within limits then the engine check light would come on. I have no such light on.

When it fails to keep an idle, I hear a dump valve type of noise which sounds like the Idle Air Control valve and then I hear buzzing from the fuel pump I think for about 5 seconds.

Dave

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Hi John,

took it 2 miles down the road to my local Lotus garage. Outside, I tried to restart it straight awya and it wouldn't idle. It would always start for about 1-2 seconds then conk out. I tried about 6 times and no use. So I let the temperature cool down low enough for it to do a cool start gain and took it for another drive for about an hour. Tried 15 times stoppig the engine and then back again and it started and idled about 12 out of 15. I am little dissappointed at first because I thought I had got to the bottom of the problem. I've realised that since resetting the ECU, I've only done about 20-25 miles which really isn't enough, then I put the car away until today.

Sorry to hear that the problem has resurfaced, Dave. Very frustrating I'm sure. It seems that at least one of your symptoms (if some other threads I've come across are accurate) is not all that uncommon on the 918. Warm starts, especially after a 5 minute or more sit, seem to take some finessing. Some attribute this to leaking secondary injectors, but your car being a 2002, I have to assume that it has relatively low milage, and that the injectors are still good. "Immediate" warm starts don't seem to be an issue. Cold starts (on mine at least) are nearly instantaneous (touch wood), especially if the owner's manual technique of hesitating in the "on" position for 3 seconds (to allow fuel line pressure to build) prior to starter engagement is followed.

I've done another 30-40 miles and it does seem to be getting better.

How long do you think it will take to completely learn and stop stalling when I tried to start it without any throttle?

The recommended "learning procedure" suggestions from fellow forum members are all over the [ECU](sorry, couldn't resist) map. I think the manual says something about driving at 40 mph in 4th gear (why 4th?) for a specified time---but I haven't looked in a while. Maybe Lotus stocks a liquid Ginkgo biloba fuel additive to help it out? <_<

She actually wants me to keep the Esprit as she knows how much it means to me. I only have one hobby which is cars and the Esprit has always been my dream. She said that I would be miserable within 2 weeks of changing. She has a point.

Do NOT lose this woman!

There was one time when I stopped and I took 6 attempts to restart it without putting foot on throttle.

On the way home, it got much better and only didn't start once.

Was this an "immediate" attempt, or was there a several minute delay? If there has been a delay, I have found that "cheating" a little with the accelerator pedal (which goes directly against the manual's advice by the way) can often help. If it's a truly "flooded" engine, then the "hold it to the floor" (to cut off all injectors, as long as the RPM is below 650 (?)) while engaging the starter for several seconds to "clear" the fuel out method is another option. (important safety tip: keep fingers crossed that engine doesn't inadvertantly come to life while holding pedal to the floor)

It tends to restart ok when I start the car, let the revs go down and steady out at 950-1000RPM. If the revs are slightly high and haven't steadied out yet and I switch the engine off. This is when I usually have the problems. But it isn't always the case.

The normal ECU program, after lifting off the throttle (even on a fully warmed up engine), is to take about 20 seconds to "decay" from about 1100 RPM to 850 (+ or - some small amt.). Don't know that I've ever shut it down while it was at the high end of this delay.

Is it worth resetting the ECU again?

Are we talking about "the poor man's reset" (Batt. disconnect for "x" period of time), or a fullblown factory "flash" reset? (kinda' what my original question was all about)? The simple powerdown is quick, harmless, very inexpensive, and probably worth another shot---even knowing that you have to go through another "relearn" session, but isn't that the point?

Hang in there, Dave. Don't give up, and keep us informed on your progress. We've all been (or will be) there at one time or another!

Regards,

John

Edited by Iconic Ride

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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Hi John,

Thanks for coming back to me and my rescue. You've picked up on some very important issues that I have overlooked.

1. I keep driving around, switch engine off the immediatley back on again. This isn't normal driving technique as who stops their engine, doesn't wait then tries to restart it again. Usually when stopping for even petrol/gas or even a local shop/store then it's a good few minutes before starting the engine engine.

2. I've done the quick easy reset not a factory reflash but I think this is all I need for now. I do have a spare ECU but it off a 97 car. Not sure if it's the same as my 99 GT?

3. When I start, I don't wait 3 seconds. Sometimes I just flick the key all the way round. What a muppet!

I plan to take it out today but itstead of pulling into a layby or side road and stop/starting all the time. Iam going to use it like a normal car and drive to a place then come back to it a few minutes later. Also I will drive in 4th a while too.

I hope it's just me not using it right and it fixes itself shortly.

Thanks John for your help,

Dave Walters

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Hi Kylie,

If I can find something to replace it with with 4 seats or 2+2 then it has to go unfortunately. Next week Iam going to test drive a couple of cars.

I love my Esprit to bits, it's just that the past couple of years, I've also enjoyed going on holidays. I really want to go away about 3 times a year. Running 3 cars and one of which I hardly use, it makes sense to sell the Esprit and my Saab convertible and buy one car that ticks most boxes.

If thre's nothing out there then I will keep my Esprit and sell the Saab.

Dave

I can understand this issue myself. I


JoeyO

2001 V8 - Silver

2007 Ducati 1098

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as all the Esprit guys tend to be an 'daddy' now, whats with the EVORA 2+2 ??

And by the way, I've read an note in the owners manual long time ago -there was an Child-seat option mentioned (probably not the modern ISO-fix, bud as good as the time of the early 90th offers..)

The other point is you can't share the Esprit style in special , until you really choose an Esprit !!!

So to buy an Porsche or BMW makes no sense on that point -does it !? It is as fast as any modern power-car, bud it is not an Esprit after all... .

The granny can take care of the children , and you plan an special candle light dinner / evening with your wife from time to time. With the right style of transport to an upper class restaurant, of course.. .

How sounds that life plan ? <_<

PS. sound as if I'm the only single Esprit guy in the future -or is it normal that all of you have children and family (as the Esprit is more an 'gentleman's-car' than for the young and wild !? :wub:

Joey, now you can :yes: me -or let it do your wife :sofa:

Edited by G

*********************************************************************

to name the things if I see them, that's what I call integrity..

*********************************************************************

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