SEMA SHOW: I spoke to the Quaife representative

[bimmabimma]

hey guys, I just got back from SEMA show guys... WOW what a trip. First time to SEMA and First time in VEGAS.

I got a chance to visit the Quaife Booth and spoke to one of their representatives about their new box. The new 6 speed quafe is being developed for the Esprit platform. They already have the bell housings for teh V8 lotus esprits they said. Also they are coming out with a H-pattern Helical gear cut application. Unfortunately it costs nearly $16-18k US dollars but they said it is already under production and should be out first thing after the new years.

I wanted to keep you guys updated. It will be a great product for the Esprit considering it already have Limited slip differential included in the price and etc. They said it has a max HP rating of 500HP which is definitely plenty good. As far as longevity of the tranny he never gave any exact number he said it all depends on the way its treated.

I got one of their catalogues too. It should be interesting to see it once it finally comes out.

Take care guys, im glad i could help out.

[karmavore]

I'm jealous. I'd love to go to SEMA one day.

Thanks for the update.

Fcuk Quaife though. For $18K I could have the UN1 rebuilt 5 times.

Lucas.

[f1karting]

I'm jealous.  I'd love to go to SEMA one day.

Thanks for the update.

Fcuk Quaife though.  For $18K I could have the UN1 rebuilt 5 times.

Lucas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Note:

Anyone buying one of their new boxes will be a "beta" tester for them. So beware.

Before spending the 18K, Id make it a point to get a commitment from Quaife to provide full after sales service and support AND to make available, at cost, all product technical fixes and updates. Get their MD to put it in writing.

You can buy the proven ZF RBT 6-sp for about the same as Quaife, the ZF 5sp for $8800 (with LSD) and the ford GT 6-sp trans can be bought from ford comp for only $13K... and I hear that customer service is included in these options.

[mchlrodrigues]

I got a chance to visit the Quaife Booth and spoke to one of their representatives about their new box.  The new 6 speed quafe is being developed for the Esprit platform. 

Take care guys, im glad i could help out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As a Quaife customer that forked out 11,000 GBP for a box with ancillaries, I can say that Quaife was very quick to provide drawings and dimensions in order to secure the sale. But once they've got your money, information becomes very scarce.

There's no service nor parts manuals available. No one in the US has seen any of these transaxles disassembled or knows anything about them. Quaife UK even admits that much. R.F. Quaife expects all of the low volume transaxles to come back to them for service in the UK. You can't even get torque specs out of them. They're not a stock item. They're built to order in lots of 5-10.

Like Lotus, Quaife allows their customers to do their development for them. The make changes along the way, so the second 10 boxes may be different than the 1st 10. While changes are made to "improve the product" they refuse to recognize there was ever a deficiency that need to be "improved" in the first place. "Oh we made some minor changes, not much really". Ask "How much would it cost to have my box brought to current spec?" And you get the response 3000GBP plus freight to and from Kent. 3000GBP for minor changes?!

During the courtship period everything's beautiful, it's a dream gearbox. After you get it fitted and you call Quaife for support or with issues, you'll hear, "Well, yes, they all do that", or "They were designed for motorsport". The best response was when I wanted to purchase parts and service manuals and brought to their attention that Hewland makes their manuals available free online, "Well, we don't charge Hewland prices do we?"

The truth is, they can't be bothered. Sorry, but I agree with Karmavore.

[karmavore]

Money no option I would try the Quaife in a minute, but there were several Esprit RACE cars that ran with the lowly UN1.

Hell, there are two V8 cars built by Kirt Wightman here in ATL putting out 450-500 horse running the UN1.

If you can campaign RACECARS with the UN1 surely a well cared for unit will be just fine on the street.

$18K is a lot of money.

Lucas.

[mchlrodrigues]

Money no option I would try the Quaife in a minute, but there were several Esprit RACE cars that ran with the lowly UN1.

Hell, there are two V8 cars built by Kirt Wightman here in ATL putting out 450-500 horse running the UN1.

If you can campaign RACECARS with the UN1 surely a well cared for unit will be just fine on the street.

$18K is a lot of money. 

Lucas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wanted to share my experience with Quaife from a customer service/customer satisfaction perspective. The point I was trying to make was not to blindly accept Quaife's sales claims.

Quaife tries to market their dog boxes as all things to all people - for street, track or racing. From my experience, I think that's stretching the truth. They're a good alternative for a track day car, which sees occasional street use but they're not really suitable for road use, nor are they a particularly good alternative for serious racing.

They shift poorly at low speeds with large clunks, especially in the lower gears. They're horrible in traffic or for driving around town. Downshifts require lots of revs. It's impossible to drive descretely, and there's the occasional difficulty in engaging 1st or reverse. Kill the engine or have it die while in an upper gear and you may be SOL. I had freeway traffic stop all of a sudden, got stuck in 5th and had to be flatbed towed home.

For racing, they are no alternate ratios, unless you have them specially made. Not being cassette boxes like Hewlands, they need to be torn down completely to change gears. And worst of all, rather than use separate dog rings the dogs are part of the gears. Damage gear dogs and instead of quickly changing $100.00 dog rings with the box in place, you face buying new gears and tearing the whole gearbox down out of the car. Not to mention that they weigh 20kg more than a comparable Hewland. That's why most racers go Hewland or X-Trac. Lotus themselves chose a Hewland TGT for the LeMans cars.

I'm telling everyone this because many people seem to think the light shines out of Quaife's behind. The reality is less impressive. If you want one I could see parting with mine for far less than I have into it. What does that tell you?

You're right; $18,000 is a lot of money. And when you charge that much for a product you have a responsibility to market the product fairly and honestly, not just tell the customer whatever he wants to hear.

[karmavore]

We all very much appreciate your insight into this. You're right, Quaife is definitely on a pedestal for many Esprit owners.

Lucas.

[bimmabimma]

i agree its a ripoff. I may not even do UN1 upgrade.. i want to but its like $5k US which isn't bad but still much better than the $18k. Do they have the UN1 upgrade thats already preinstalled in a transmission so i can just take out the old tranny and put in the new one?

[karmavore]

I HEAR that actually getting the kit from Derek is impossible.

Lucas.

[bimmabimma]

really, so where do u get the kit then? his website is hardly professional at best. if i wanted to buy a kit where i would buy it from? Lotus Esprit World?

[mchlrodrigues]

really, so where do u get the kit then?  his website is hardly professional at best.  if i wanted to buy a kit where i would buy it from? Lotus Esprit World?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You get them through Derek. Pricing is on LEW, but they run around 2700GBP.

Impossible is a bit harsh. I expect that they're made up as they're ordered. There's no stock on hand.

You'll also have to send Derek your gearbox case to be machined for a larger bearing. I'm not sure if Derek has a core on hand, but be aware that the S4 and the V8's have a different (stiffer) case to the earlier models. They're two additional stiffening ribs and the differential cross bolts are 12mm as opposed to 10mm. You wouldn't want to trade an 026/027 case for an earlier one.

Figure your car is going to be off the road for a few months.

The pricing is not cheap, but one can't compare custom-machined/low volume components with production pricing.

[williamives]

I've got Derek's upgrade, the first fitted to an esprit in the UK. (he supplied the first one to a German customer and couple of months earlier)

Derek's a pleasure to work with. My gearbox took some time as it was a prototype, and we found unexpected damage from the failure and had to change extra parts. But Derek really understands the shortcomings of the UN1, and certainly 'cares' about his customers.

If you want more infomation, I'll answer any questions I can. But call Derek, I'm sure he will be happy to discuss the upgrade. His contact details are on his website.

http://www.bell-performance.co.uk

Will

Edited November 8, 2005 by Bibs

[karmavore]

That's what I HEARD.

Anyway...

I really can't imagine that it wouldn't be MUCH more efficent to have him send you the two gears and the shaft and then find someone locally to do the machining.

Does Derek insist on installing it himself??

Lucas.

[f1karting]

I understand from Derek that he may beplanning a production run early in the new year.

It sounds to me like he prefers to do the upgrade for you, on your box.

He has been very helpful and responsive with me so far..

Jan

[bimmabimma]

Hey guys, Im definitely not gettng the quaife unit but i am interested in the Derek bell kit (especially if he will just mass produce the thing). I ALSO am waiting for the ZERO-SHIFT transmission to come out.

Zero Shift website

basically it is 0ms shifting mechanism that can be retrofitted to any existing manual transmission. I spoke to a representative one year ago and he said that he might be working on something for hte Esprit (since he is UK based) but gave no concrete results or anything. however if the technology truly does come out it will revolutionize the entire industry.

Edited November 8, 2005 by bimmabimma

[mchlrodrigues]

I spoke to a representative one year ago and he said that he might be working on something for hte Esprit (since he is UK based) but gave no concrete results or anything.  however if the technology truly does come out it will revolutionize the entire industry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I remember reading about this some time back in Race Car Engineering. It's really slick and interesting. Let's keep our fingers crossed, but I bet they're looking for an OEM application first or at least a major race team. From business perspective that would make the most sense.

[DBredS4]

Fascinating thread chaps

I too was of the opinion that Quaife made the definitive Esprit transaxle but obviously couldn't afford it so simply coveted it. Shame they apparently have the 'once sold, not interested' attitude...

I could, at a push afford the Derek Bell upgrade.

I do hope he does a production run as it will do so much for the cars and reliability.

I just need to save up the ~

[karmavore]

Wait, wait.... what's the real "weak link" and "reliably" issue here?

Are any FOUR CYLINDER cars really breaking these shafts and chipping gears??

I thought the most common repair was to the synchro, specifically the 2nd gear one.

I could see a heavily modified 4 or a chipped and abused 8 BRAKING A SHAFT, but not the everyday 225-275 ft/lb 4 doing it.

Lucas.

[Paula&Marcus]

That's what I HEARD.

Anyway...

I really can't imagine that it wouldn't be MUCH more efficent to have him send you the two gears and the shaft and then find someone locally to do the machining.

Does Derek insist on installing it himself??

Lucas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Lucas,

My friend Steffen (from Ramspott & Brandt) sells all the parts as a DIY-kit here in Germany. I did not put this kit on our P.U.K. website, because I feared that it might too much of a problem having customers with a dismantled tranny and a lot of bits and pieces that call me ... "Marcus, I fear these parts you sent me donot fit properly ... Is that gear supposed to go in like this or just the otherway round ... ?" .... you know what I mean ;o)

Cheers

Marcus

[neal]

Wait, wait.... what's the real "weak link" and "reliably" issue here?

Everyting

Both the 4 cylinder and V8 are quite capacble of breaking the box. It's just that the stock V8 was been delibered restricted to strangle its potential even more. You'll only see the V8 give full boost and its 295ftlb at t 6krpm+ (so it feels fasters than the 4cylinder). The other excepetion for the V8 is that it allows full boost arcross the revs in fifth - necessary so it could achieve it 175mph top speed.

But everything is reaching its limit:

1. Driveshafts starting twisting.

2. Chassis bending.

3. Chargecooling (the is a supercar - they're no supposed to have a trunk :-)

4. Forged pistions.

5. Stronged cranshaft bearings.

6. More cooling.

7. Even more cooling.

8. An of course a new gearbox.

But you have to bite the bullet at a some time and face the reality. The original S1 is two years older than I am for goodness sake, and you sometimes have to accept that the technology has moved on and it's time stop flogging the poor beast. For example, the Elise is four times stiffer that the last Espirt and doesn't even have a roof! Plus design and emissions regs are becoming ever more draconian.

Having said that I have no plans to with dispsense of my V8-GT as my daily driver. Woudn't part with it for the world. True it could be faster if I were willing yo accpect the inevitble higher running cost. But judging to the white-knuckled reaction I get from all my passenger I doubt that's necessary

Things is style beats speed hands down every time. If all you want is speed go and buy the latest Max Power, attend a reading/writing evening class so up fill in the registration document and look up where Japan is in an atlas

[lotusracing]

Greetings,

The UN1 box is stronger than most people thik... But it doesn hold up well to abuse.

Most of the failures I have found have been...

1/2 synchros.... this is due to the way people shift and improper fluids.

I have several gear boxs with over 30K miles and the synchros look like new

chipped ring pinion gear teeth from doing standing start burn out dropping clutch at WOT... DUH of course it broke...

Broke primary shaft at 5th gear oil hole, due to shaft design problem and bad gear box fluid together.

The Qaufe ATB is a great add on the the gear box. One has to put the power to road.

And finally here in the USA we have a good supply of the diffs available from several sources.

They are available from Add Lightness Motorsports or JAE parts

-Larry

[Rob C]

I HEAR that actually getting the kit from Derek is impossible.

Lucas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello Guys I think the trouble with getting the parts off Derek is Money again...he has to have his Shafts speacially made to his design and in practice that needs numbers to make a sensible costing...The Only Car I know of myself is Willaims Sport 350 its a good year on now and still strong.... By the way it was Qauife that made the first batch of shafts for him...Rob C.....

[Rob C]

Wait, wait.... what's the real "weak link" and "reliably" issue here?

Are any FOUR CYLINDER cars really breaking these shafts and chipping gears?? 

I thought the most common repair was to the synchro, specifically the 2nd gear one. 

I could see a heavily modified 4 or a chipped and abused 8 BRAKING A SHAFT, but not the everyday 225-275 ft/lb 4 doing it.

Lucas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Again I've seen the result of a broken 2nd gear chip got inside the cluster on my pals 90 se ...it effectively stopped 2nd working he went to Reno and got the parts..then machine copied the grooves he found in the Lotus parts..Rob

[Rob C]

Hi Lucas,

My friend Steffen (from Ramspott & Brandt) sells all the parts as a DIY-kit here in Germany. I did not put this kit on our P.U.K. website, because I feared that it might too much of a problem having customers with a dismantled tranny and a lot of bits and pieces that call me ... "Marcus, I fear these parts you sent me donot fit properly ... Is that gear supposed to go in like this or just the otherway round ... ?"  .... you know what I mean ;o)

Cheers

Marcus

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Chaps and you Marcus long time since we chatted...I've met Derek Twice and seen the Monster Lola T70..6.9 chev...its a bloody lovelly beast.

Derek will help in any way he can...he did help Willaim with his Sport 350..he rebuilt the box after it broke the main shaft and wrecked the rear case....the Fly wheel and clutch were also a real mess...Some one at some time had given the car a real bad time...and that was certainly disrespectful as he probally did not own the car when he was thrashing it...Rob C