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monstermunchman

Specialist in Scotland?

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http://www.town-and-county.co.uk/

Greenwell Road, East Tullos, Aberdeen AB12 3AX

Tel: (01224) 870770 Fax: (01224) 870890

Never heard of them until Google helped or used them.

These people (Scottish Elises) may be able to help with reco's?

http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/?mforum=scottisheliseso

Other than that, there are the Murray Motors Official Dealers in Edinburgh and Glasgow too.


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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Ed McGlone is based up in Scotland He may be able to direct you towards someone?


"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

------------------------------

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Pop down to Newcastle and take the ferry to Gothenburg, we have a trustworthy independent guy here. :blink:

Sorry, but that's the best I could do. :P


Jens

15407iq.jpgProud member of The Fearless Red Squadron

Better living through turbocharging!

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Thanks guys.

The Aberdeen garage used to be a Lotus dealer, but they quit some time ago when they realised that they couldn't convert the locals from Scoob Sti's and Porsche 911's.

Sweden sounds nice, but I'm thinking 'independents' for those days when the thing doesn't want to leave its nice warm garage. It's a long way to push...

Calling Ed... !

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Not sure about modern stuff but Manor Garage at west Linton near Edinburgh are well known to some of the guys at the Scottish Esprits yahoo group.

www.manorgarage.dial.pipex.com

Had my S2 Esprit in there and they were spot on ,nice and friendly.

They have been mentioned in Club Lotus Magazine a few times in the past.

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Not sure about modern stuff but Manor Garage at west Linton near Edinburgh are well known to some of the guys at the Scottish Esprits yahoo group.

I haven't used them myself but would echo that Manor Garage seem to get a good rep among the Scottish Esprits guys both for mechanicals and bodywork.

Any work on my car is done by a friend who is an independent VW/Audi specialist - he's not a Lotus expert but he knows his onions and I trust his opinions. He is very limited for space so any car which is going to hang around waiting for parts etc. is a problem for him but I could put you in touch if you want.

Where are you based? How long have you had your Esprit and have you joined up at the Yahoo Scottish Esprits group yet?

Cheers

Ed

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Where are you based? How long have you had your Esprit and have you joined up at the Yahoo Scottish Esprits group yet?

Cheers

Ed

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Doh! Just looked at your post and realised that you're an Exige owner!! There's a sister group on Yahoo - Scottish Elises - a bit closer to the mark?

Anyway, No Esprit? Never mind - there's time yet. :blink:

Cheers

Ed

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Thanks guys!

I'm based in the Lothians so l'll check out Manor Garage.

Ed, I'm looking to change over from the wee rocket (sore back), and I've narrowed down to 3 cars...

1. Esprit - The race favourite. I'm a Lotus-nut and this is the daddy. I've just been put-off thus far with tales of reliability woes (my pockets are not tooooo deep).

2. Z3 M Coupe - It has the performance and relliability I would want. Also, it is so fantastically ugly that quite frankly it's beautiful! A true hairy-chested mans car and future classic (probably!).

3. NSX - It also has the performance and reliability, but I'm just not convinced by its looks (inside or out). Soul?

Comments or suggestions would be welcome!

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1) Excellent choice sir!

2) Just a bit off the back please! :blink:

3) Great but by all reports I think you'd find it hideously bland and uninspiring / boring


"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

------------------------------

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Mmm...

You don't say whether you will have access to another car or not. The Esprit is a machine for driving but it doesn't really function As a normal day to day car.Mind you, none of the 3 you have listed would but I suppose the BMW comes closest. The NSX is certainly rare but neither of the other two come close to the Esprit in terms of style/excitement/sense of occasion. Only you can decide, though.

Just my 2p's worth.

Cheers

Ed

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I've got a second car, so the Esprit will not be tasked with coming out to play every day. It also means that I can live with the occasional tantrum.

The Z3 M Coupe has now been ruled out of the running as there are a lot of reports indicating that the VANOS unit is problematic and that the chassis, although much better than the Roadster, still cannot handle the power.

So, it's a straight fight between the NSX and the Esprit.

Plusses and Minuses...

ESPRIT

Plus-

Looks

Performance

Rarity

Marque

Minuses -

Alleged Fragility

Poor Build Quality (I've owned Loti long enough to bear testament to this one!).

NSX

Plus -

Performance

Rarity

Reliability

Build Quality

Can Be Used Everyday

Minuses -

Bland Looks

Drab Interior

Marque

Price (Ouch!)

My heart says Lotus, but my head says Honda!

Come on... there must be a wise old sage out there who can encourage me to follow my heart!

The acid test will be when I drive them back to back in the latter half of next week. Full report to follow!

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Other than that, there are the Murray Motors Official Dealers in Edinburgh and Glasgow too.

hi,

and between Edinburgh and Glasgow.... :D


"Aut tace aut loquere meliora silentio" Salvator Rosa when 25 years old National Gallery London

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Having driven an NSX, albeit some time ago, and several Esprit over the years (as well as my own V8-GT which I've had 6 weeks) there is no contest. The NSX is a car that my Grandmother could drive down to Sainsburys for her weekly groceries and she could probably do good job down a decent A road - and thats the point. You have to drive an Esprit, engage with it, get involved, really get your act together if you want to get the best out of it. Ultimately its much more rewarding then a Honda! As for the looks, no contest. People actually stop and stare and want to chat about the Esprit. I don't know anyone amongst my fellow Petrol Heads who would give an NSX a second glance.

Buy with your heart, but engage your brain first........ and get a well sorted Esprit.

As for garages in Scotland, Dreadnought over in Callander did a good job according to my PO. I will probably give Murray in Edinburgh a chance to impress me before I go searching for an independent when the time comes.

Edited by hedgerley

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Cheers Mark.

I use Murray for new cars, but not sure about paying Dealer rates for an out of warranty car (i.e. 2002 V8).

I think I've heard Dreadnoughts name come up before... possibly regarding TVR's. Will check it out.

Thanks again.

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Yes, they are a TVR specialist, also Rover (some monster racing 75s apparently) and my PO reckoned they did a good servicing job on the Esprit, seemed to know what they were about. No body shop capability though - I asked them about the rear light upgrade just after I got my 98 V8. I've got a private warranty for the Esprit which covers dealer rates so I'll give Murray a go if anything breaks, as it no doubt will at some point..........

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Re: NSX - Reliability

A well sorted Esprit - be that a late Giugiaro, Stephens S4 GT3 or V8 can be driven every day as reliably as any car.

A shonky one will be as unreliable as ANY shonky car!

We have SO many people on this forum who drive their Esprits daily and don't have problmes beyond normal maintenance.

No one in their right mind would even attempt to argue the NSX wouldn't be reliable... but I would argue that if, as suggested above, you engage your head and you get a GOOD Esprit then it will be reliable too.

By all reports, you forgot a minus off the NSX list....

Anodine, bland, unengaging drive

I suspect that after driving an Exige, you will find it the dullest thing ever - like driving a modern fast mass production car.

Drove my friend's Volvo V70 Type R - almost as fast as my Esprit. It was comfortable, impressive, well made, fast and everything you would expect it to be.... but utterly unengaging. By the end of the journey I was half glad to get back in my Metro which, despite being well known complete P.O.S cars... was 100% more fun! :)

Follow your heart, buy the Esprit. It will have the motorbike "Smiles per miles" factor! :huh:

Plus... If you buy an NSX, you will STILL and ALWAYS want to own an Esprit and will only end up selling the NSX to get the Lotus in the future!


"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

------------------------------

ribbon200.gifG-Car Owner and Proud! ribbon200.gif

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Drove my friend's Volvo V70 Type R - almost as fast as my Esprit. It was comfortable, impressive, well made, fast and everything you would expect it to be.... but utterly unengaging. By the end of the journey I was half glad to get back in my Metro which, despite being well known complete P.O.S cars... was 100% more fun! :huh:

You didn't do it right then! The Volvo R is a good drive at speed with the active chassis enabled, remember those twisties on the way to Cornwall? On the way to Le Mans to we had some fun moments too on the French roads. It's no Esprit, of course but the chassis management was designed in conjuction with Ohlins Racing AB who know their stuff and for a car of such size and weight, it's a well handling machine with good power and superb roadholding. I think perhaps trying to take a Metro well past it limits and taking care of your friends expensive car lead to a different drive!


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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Yes and no...

I totally accept that naturally there was the inherent, inhibiting, "EEEK" factor at the prospect breaking a mate's car! :(

However they are a *completely* different driving experience. The Power Steering and the Automatic Gearbox being the biggest of them...

I didn't drive it like a complete granny and did take advantage of some of those nice twisty Essex lanes but I was still glad to drive my albeit slower, more dangerous, technically crap handling Metro! It's much more exciting! :huh:

I don't THINK (admittedly not having driven one) I would particularly enjoy even an Esprit with Power Steering...

However I completely accept I only have my experience of other car's power steering to go by (Veccie, Volvo, 5 Series Bim, Granada, Rover 800 series) but I hate it!

I really enjoyed driving our old XR2 too :) That was like a bulldog on a leash :(


"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked him to forgive me."

------------------------------

ribbon200.gifG-Car Owner and Proud! ribbon200.gif

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By all reports, you forgot a minus off the NSX list....

Anodine, bland, unengaging drive

I suspect that after driving an Exige, you will find it the dullest thing ever - like driving a modern fast mass production car.

Drove my friend's Volvo V70 Type R - almost as fast as my Esprit. It was comfortable, impressive, well made, fast and everything you would expect it to be.... but utterly unengaging. By the end of the journey I was half glad to get back in my Metro which, despite being well known complete P.O.S cars... was 100% more fun! :)

Follow your heart, buy the Esprit. It will have the motorbike "Smiles per miles" factor! :D

Plus... If you buy an NSX, you will STILL and ALWAYS want to own an Esprit and will only end up selling the NSX to get the Lotus in the future!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In my view, this is much like people that never experienced an Esprit saying it is inferior because of reputation. A bit like your point of view on Porsche 911's.

Although a lot of your points are based on reason, you have to remember a car is as personal a choice as the clothes you wear. Not everyone feels the Lotus is the Holy Grail.

I think most peoples opinions of the NSX rest on the Badge not being European. If it had a Pagani, Lambo or similar label on the front it would have recieved a lot more respect.

There is a fundamental difference in the design philosophy of a Lotus Esprit than more recent cars.

The Esprit sold until recently was still a concept designed 25 years ago. Supercars back then were made with the best technological ideas of that period.

Since then thinking around the design of such cars has moved on greatly since the leaps forward in computers and drive-by-wire.

No one could design a supercar today which is as raw in control inputs as the Esprit, not even Lotus. (The Elise is not a supercar so is not counted.)

Fashions have moved on and people now expect fancy computers involved at some level. We saw this with the later advancement of the Esprit to use EFI and ECU management systems. Cars without this are considered more driving enthusiasts machines and are similar to the Elise in being small lightweight go-karts you can chuck about, they are also limited in power. Just look at the take off in popularity of cars like the Ariel Atom and the continued success of the Caterham 7 type.

However, the Honda NSX was one of the first supercars of the modern age. Now you find Ferraris, Porsches, Lambos, Paganis etc all using sophisticated drive-by-wire and semi-auto gearboxes.

The NSX imo, is not directly comparable to the Esprit, they are a generation apart in thinking.

The choice depends greatly on what kind of driver you think you are. That will largely determine how much fun you will have or how bland you will find the car.

Not everyone who bought the Esprit in the last ten years of its production was super impressed by it. That's is part of the reason residual value and even market price were never that high, enabling people like us to realistically aspire to owning one.

Most people with the better part of 100 grand prefered modern technology for their money and bought rival cars. Lotus as a result has been barely in business over the last 20 years.

However, to say the NSX is bland and unengaging is a little OTT. My Volvo you refer to is a car that will blitz a Metro without breaking a sweat, and has more grip and high speed stability than your Esprit.

It may do this with the benefit of modern leaps in control technology, but it also takes a driver who knows how to get the best out of such a car to make the most of it. As I remember discussing with you when I bought it, a manual version would probably have been a better choice if I wanted it for driving pleasure as well as practicality. The semi-auto box does have too much lag in shifting to get that hoon feeling, i admit. I have touched the limit of the car a few times and found it to be a machine with more capability than I have as a driver, so I don't easily ever get to its maximum envelope. But when I do, it can be frightening just how much grip it has, certainly more stability on the edge than an Esprit has.

Now this I am happy to concede is down to the mechanical design in combination with the computer management, but the latest Ferrari's and Lambo's are built on the same technology. I'm sure people don't find those unappealing.

One of the reasons I wouldn't buy a Murcielago or Gallardo is because they have too much computer controlled input. That's why I think the Esprit is a car more for me, it's old fashioned.

The NSX is a car I have only driven briefly years ago, and I have always liked it since, and would be more than happy to try one out for hooning. The only criticism I had was too many were made with semi-auto shifters, not enough manual versions

Even so, an NSX still maintains a better residual value than the Esprit. When making a comparison, you need to be clear what you are comparing, the technology, or the image? Because these two cars are a generation apart.

If Lotus had the financial power, they'd have wanted to build that kind of technology into the Esprit, of that I have no doubt.

Lotus Engineering has been responsible for many of the technologies other manufacturers use today in this age of bland driving experiences.

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I don't THINK (admittedly not having driven one) I would particularly enjoy even an Esprit with Power Steering...

However I completely accept I only have my experience of other car's power steering to go by (Veccie, Volvo, 5 Series Bim, Granada, Rover 800 series) but I hate it!

I really enjoyed driving our old XR2 too :) That was like a bulldog on a leash :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm kinda with you on this in general .. I had a BMW 330d with sports pack suspension - it was highly competant, handled well, nicely weighted and had all the electronic gizmos for keeping it out of the hedges ... BUT it never felt truly alive - almost like playing a computer game.

In the end, I decided I much preferred driving my old Excel SE with flaking paint and 130k on the clock, with no gadgets and sold the BMW. The Excel does have power steering, but it retains so much feel through the steering wheel, lovely, something that most modern cars seem unable to achieve (Esprit excluded) - it also feels much lighter than 1.85 tons of BMW - hell, the difference in weight over the Excel is probably a Metro! I don't care if it's not so smooth when cold - it's fun!

Don't rule out Lotus' power steering cars, you will be pleasantly surprised!

(agree about the XR2 too!)

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