chip #5

[Jonathan 13]

In all honesty, if I get mine chipped (which I will probably do sometime) I'll have it tuned propperly on the rollers, as you say no substitue for real life testing.

[Paula&Marcus 0]

Arent the rollers/dynos just another substitude for real life ....

... jokes aside ... the Esprit actually is one of those cars that "donot like" rollers/dynos. If you do it, please do in wintertime and choose one with a HUGE cooling fan.

Otherwise you will simulate something that has nothing to do with real life on the road ...

Cheers

Marcus

[KVJ 786 0]

Hi Marcus

I have a 95 S4S with stock chip at present, I was reading the specs on the upgrade chip which improves the below 3000 rpm sysndrome and also improves ac control. Am I right to assume that what I have now is causing my car to run rough on slow speeds and gets better when I rev the engine which brings in the boost.

What I want to achieve is the slow running around town roads without the need to floor the gas to achieve smooth running, ie better torque at low speeds. In that case which chip would suit my needs? I researched chip #4 and #5 but cannot decide which is the right one for my car.

I read what Jonathan is saying about upgraded chips can cause more harm than good, but in my opinion I have owned 6 Lotuses and with my driving habit I have raced and pushed the limits on the cars with acceleration and top end speeds. Not once have I damaged any turbos or any other parts for that matter. In my opinion it is depends on how you drive and push the limits to exreme that causes the wear on parts.

PS is the turbo uprated in the S4S compared to the older cars prior to 1995?

Thanks

Ameer

[SE Owner :-D 17 1 Vehicles]

Jonathan,

I want you and your laptop/freescan in my car - I have a stage 2 WC Engineering Turbo and one of Marcus's Custom Chips among other little modifications...some interesting things appear on the gauges non of which i trust. But car has some fun characteristics. I also had chip 3 which was fun. I've never chipped first always did a litttle then chipped, did a little then chipped. Soon enough the Turbo was the limiting factor in performance/feel, so i upgraded didn't have to it wasn't broke. The Stage 2 is supposed to be able to cope with 409hp according to John Welch's figures I don't know what kind of numbers mine runs and don't care. Never really got rid of the shite pick up - up to around 3k and still haven't regardless of chip/turbo/mod - love to iron that out. Someone said lighten your flywheel...but that's another story.

Brakes or braking are on my agenda next.

Wayne i'd love you to have a drive of mine see what you think.

S4s turbo is different btw Ameer.

[Jonathan 13]

oooo errrr

I'm affraid I'm spoken for mate hehehe

Jokes asside I'd like to take a look at the car's freescan.

The WC turbo has different compressor map or what ever you call it - main point of my discussion was the fact the stock turbo is working close to it's efficiency performance anyways.

If you were to change the turbo and chip the car that would yield good results but I would want a chip specifically written for that turbo's map, the one you have is written for a different turbo, different repsonse and so on.

Have you upgraded the fuel injectors, esp the secondary ones ? Thats my next mod.

[Bibs 8,949 4 Vehicles]

Me too. Running lean at high boost doesn't appeal!

[SE Owner :-D 17 1 Vehicles]

yeah - done injectors pri/sec, cam, cam timing, exhaust 107/107 etc. plus decat/exhaust blah blah

apparently 'CUSTOM CHIP for WC Stage 2 turbo' - assumes it was written specifically for the application. Although you'd need marcus to comment here as i bought it off him with the mods/spec of my car listed. i'm just a punter.

[Paula&Marcus 0]

Hi Ameer,

I sent you a PM ...

Yes, the S4S has a different turbo ... compared to the ones in the SE,S4 or GT3 it has a larger compressor wheel ...

Marcus

[waynef 0 1 Vehicles]

Hi Marcus

Am I right in saying the standard compressor wheel on S4 is .53mm as to the upgraded one of the S4s running at .60mm.

Currently i'm running a T56 housing with .63 compressor and #5 chip.

I'm going to do a number of Freescan runs this weekend weather permitting from 3rd, 4th and fith gear 50 - 100mph sprints and do a comparison of the over boost.

My guess is that being chipped she'll be fine in third but will over boost slightly in fourth and severely in fifth. Readings should then hopefully be conclusive that although torque is great at lower RPM the overboost will be significantly higher.

Even i'm intrigued by all this now.....Jonathan look what you've started

Waynef

[Bibs 8,949 4 Vehicles]

Don't go from 0 to 100% throttle in fifth with any determination, you'll end up snapping it off! The gear is a huge distance from the CWP, it's pretty delicate.

[Paula&Marcus 0]

Hi All,

I know of some V8 that have snapped the 5th gear of, but I donot know one single 4-Cylinder that actually did the same ... even the highest modified ones donot break 5th gear ...

Is there anybody who knows a 4-Cylinder who has broken the 5th gear ???

IMHO, its the low down torque that weakens the primary shaft 5th gear overhang over time ... and its only the V8 that can deliver that much torque low down ... additionally the V8 has a longer 5th gear than the 4-cylinder Esprits what makes the whole thing even more problematic ...

IMHO, all 4-cylinder owners are pretty much safe here ...

Cheers

Marcus

Edited August 12, 2009 by Paula&Marcus

[sailorbob 180]

This is what I found from searching around for information on the turbos:

S4: compressor wheel 50 trim, turbine wheel 68 trim

S4S: compressor wheel 60 trim, turbine wheel unknown trim

[Bibs 8,949 4 Vehicles]

Turbine is 0.63 on the S4s, from LEW.

[mike_sekinger 358 2 Vehicles]

There is some confusion here between the a/r (air ratio) if the housings and the trim of the turbine/compressor wheel.

Here is a great link for those who are interested:

Garrett info page

Cheers,

Mike S

[Paula&Marcus 0]

JFYI, the 0.63 is the A/R !

[Bibs 8,949 4 Vehicles]

Thanks Mike, reading now

[SE Owner :-D 17 1 Vehicles]

Here's the spec for my bad boy if anyone here has some tech help:

WC Engineering Stage II Ceramic Ball Bearing Turbo

Maximum Flow

47 lbs/min at 3.0 PR with 72% Eff and 126,000 RPM.

Optimum Flow

From 17 lbs/min @ 1.6 PR through 37 lbs/min at 2.5 PR

Power output at maximum flow is 409 HP sustained.

When operated in the normal Esprit parameters of the 2.0 PR (14.7 psi of boost) this unit provides 34 lbs/min of air while still inside the 76% efficency window. The SE turbo only provides 15 lbs/min at this level, and the S4s turbo only provides 17.5 lbs/min.

Rog

[Jonathan 13]

Wayne - could I see the the freescans ?

I have exactly the same records of my GT3 at 2nd 3rd and 4th (didn't bother with 5th, car is too quick for the roads at max rpm LOL)

It's begood to compare and contrast, might prove or disprove some of my own theorys.

You should also have a true pressure gauge if not already fitted, remember the MAP sensor cannot read over ~1.1 bar (put a compressor on the sensor, it saturates at 4.96V at ~1.1 bar) The in car boost gauge is frankly terrible, mines only accurate at 1/2 bar, the sender also bottoms out (ie reads zero ohms) at ~1 bar as well....it's be interesting to see exactly what your max boost is.

ta

Edited August 12, 2009 by Jonathan

[waynef 0 1 Vehicles]

Hi Jonathan

I'll do the Freescans next week as car is due to go into garage (Again) for blowing exhaust manifold (its not even covered 400 miles since being refitted am really pi$$ed off) hopefully it will be free of charge after my last bill to sort of

Edited August 13, 2009 by waynef

[SE Owner :-D 17 1 Vehicles]

Oooh would love to play but i'm away!

[waynef 0 1 Vehicles]

Any where nice Rog???

How is littleun been a while since we caught up. Anyhow by the time you get back we should have the readings so hopefully these will help decide what next on the mods lol.

I'm still thinking of the Tubular exhaust manifold as I know it can be done, the guy in Thailand Pat Pong (on here) has one but despite numerous emails have not had an answer back. But his engine would put us all to shame amazing work of art.

Waynef

[Jonathan 13]

Always up for a mess about - let you know closer to the time incase of any emergencies.

Worried about the rate you clean manifolds out though, seriously bad.

[waynef 0 1 Vehicles]

Your worried....lol my bank managers worried lol

I want what this guy has Tubular Manifold

Talk about mods

Keep dreaming lol

Waynef

[SE Owner :-D 17 1 Vehicles]

Yes mate the little one is cool, you coming to wings and wheels?

PatPongs motor is outrageous, have long admired it he makes some so called modders on here look like they've just been to halfords. Notice he's wrapped the manifold now...chip 7 blue race/chip switch these are definitely on my list for the future along with a friggin great big bath tub chargecooler, the list goes on...where does it end...he's claiming 400 horses - a goal...

[Jonathan 13]

See brother Nicks GT3. If I wanted that HP I could not keep the engine stock. Talk to Garry Kemp on that one.

Always said when the SE gives out it's going for a similar mod and then be dropped into the GT3, then the SE can have the Gt3 engine.