Why do I want to buy an Esprit

[Iain_B]

I've been reading everything I can about Esprits both here and on Pistonheads and every website link I can find:

Here's a summary of what I have learnt so far:

All Esprits start off life in a workshop in England, and like homing pidgeons, seem to want to constantly return there every few months for the first few years, then slowly they become usable cars for a year or so.

The first owner loves them so much , but they don't drive them much because they are always back at Hethel. By the time they start driving it, they have to sell it because it is now "old". They sell their Esprit, buy a Porsche and live happily ever after.

The second owner gets a "bargain" supercar , and spends his life savings keeping it on the road at various workshops and mechanics who think all their Christmasses have come at once as soon as the owner cars drives up, they spend enourmous amounts of time and money and the car runs worse after each visit. His or her other half makes them get rid of it as soon as they buy a house or start a family.

The third owner uses it as a lovely garage ornament, except it doesn't fit in the garage because it too wide and so it lives on the driveway, impresses the hell out the neighbours at first, but they start to laugh as it usually return on a flatbed truck after each outing. When they do get it going, they go to club meetings and then crash the thing in the rain. The car then either goes to that happy car lot in the sky, or gets a bodgy fix and sold.

The fourth owner either gets it as a bargain, or pay way to much for a bodgy fixed up car depending on whether he has owned an Esprit before or not. He then spends the next two years in which he rebuilds it completely, spending twice the car's value, but fixes everything and turns it into a real supercar and then hoons around happily ever after.

Problem Summary

Giugiarao Cars

They catch fire, the wiring is even worse than all the XJ-S's built when Leyland owned Jaguar, the gearbox breaks, the fuel tanks leak, what little bit there is to rust does, most parts are no longer obtainable and people end up putting Landrover 4x4 engines into them. If you do find a "good one" ( which cost a lot of money) you can't drive it otherwise it will break and then it won't be a "good one" anymore. They are very pretty, but except for the Esprit Turbo, will be out dragged by mom in her shopping trolley at the light s unless you want to break the gearbox again. The Turbo will hold it own agains any normal car, but WRX's will eat it for breakfast and in trying to keep up you willl break the gearbox again. ( It's a recurring theme throughout history, the French letting down the British )

Steven's Cars

1. They also catch fire,

2. Don't have a minor accident - as the whole chassis will need replacing and most of the body as well, and the insurance company will try rip you off.

3. The windscreens breaks if you take out the instrument panel, the windscreen leaks after you replace the windscreen, the water damages something in the instrument panel resulting in you having to take it out again and the cycle repeats.

4. Gearbox breaks if you try drive the car fast ( strange you would think for a supercar) - you can fix it, but that costs about 1/4 what the car is worth. You can upgrade it so it wont break, but that cost 1/2 of what the car is worth.

5. The factory shocks only last 20,000km. The new replacement cost 1/4 of what the car is worth.

6. The wheel alignment goes out if you hit a pot hole, and somehow the shims wear out. The rubber bushes last a few years, and cost about 1/4 what the car is worth to replace.

7. The brakes come of an old Toyota Celica, yet cost about 1/4 of what the car is worth to replace.

8. You can chip the car to make it go faster, but then the gearbox brakes even quicker.

9. You can't drive it in the rain because you will crash - see Point 2 above.

10. The chargecooler pump breaks, but you can't really tell that its broken.

11. The turbo manifold cracks, can be rewelded until all that's left is weld metal.

12. The turbo doesn't last long, but is very cheap to replace - cheaper than a timing belt.

13. The timing belt need replacing often - or it snaps and you have to spend about what the car is worth on an engine rebuild.

14. The clutch need replacing often, and costs 1/4 of the car's value to replace because the flywheel has to be re-machined each time, and you find all sort of other problems when the gearbox is out.

15. The gear linkages need constant attention/adjustment, yet never amnage to get really good except for a few days of the year.

16. The clutch master and slave cylinder are connected with the wrong type of pipe, and surprisingly doens't cost much to replace,yet most owners have not done it.

17. The steering rack wears out after a few years and costs 1/4 what the car is worth to replace.

18. The car needs to be respray after it's 8th brithday.

V8's - ( not much to say on this one - they are not on the my "affordable list" yet)

1. The liners leak and you need to rebuild the engine but it only costs 1/4 of what the car is worht so that's a bargain..

2. The gearbox also breaks, strange how its the same gearbox from the 4 cylinder that also used to break yet the V8 has lots more power an torque..

3. It can't do 200mph because the gearbox will break and the pistons will melt.

Despite all this, I still want one -

Edited November 18, 2005 by Iain_B

[danielsonson]

I habe to disagree with some of your statements!

G car wiring if not fettled/interfered with is superb, mt car is absolutely spot on with only replacement bulbs and a new spade on the head reversing light required, the loom is completely un spliced.

I have an 86 S3 (no turbo) which with some very minor tuning mods will do low 6's and has a top whack of 140, but to be honest I prefer wanging it around corners at 80 which is where Chapman chassis's are meant to be!

My neighbour has a Lotus 7 and he struggles to stay with me, although I do have more track time. My friend has a Beemer 328 and I eat him alive all day long so in answer to your statement the Mothers Shopping trolley had better be pokey.

WRX's yeah they are quick but they are ugly, un-inspring and the automotive equivalent to a Burberry Baseball cap, They shout middle aged Asbo or Estate Agent!

I am 24, have been lucky enough to own most of the cars I have coveted as a child but the pinnacle is my Esprit (and probably the end of my sports car journey as the next object of desire is aDe Tomasa Pantera, GT40 or a Muira!hmm please Mr Bank Manager)

In conclusion, Esprits are beautful super cars with an amalgamation of Italian Elegance, British Sportscar Prowess, James Bond'esque Cool and a fairly affordable price tag.

To put it into context, An old friend of mine has a 348 TB Horse, it is a relatively driveable Horse with its fluid V8, however he pays garaunteed,

[karluk29]

well well you missed ONE VITAL POINT so i can see, my angle:-

buy a MINT OUT IT HEAD esprits only done 5k miles for a rock bottom price as bloke didnt know what it was worth and mod the crap out of it LMAO LMAO LMAO

and as usual most of the stuff you mention happens to about 5% of esprits ever,,,,,its the usual thing,,,,,why tell the world if your car is running fine, you dont need any help or guidance, so all you see are the bad posts. i have owned mine 3 years and i can count on one hand whats gone wrong with mine, and each item was under

[karluk29]

may i add that EVERY single stevens comment is total b#llocks,,,,,sorry but it is

[lisalotus]

Jesus mate, you couldn,t be more wrong if you tryed.

Okay you may have a point on some issues, ie: driving in the rain , I would agree with you on that but thats about it.

I,ve had an s4 for 6 years, and havn,t had any major issues at all, dont get me wrong you have to spend money on maintenance like you would on any other car. In fact I would say that our other car (4x4 shogan), maintenance wise with the exception of cambelt change service, the costs of keeping them in tip top road worthy condition is about the same.

Okay I probably dont drive mine as hard as some of the guys on here, being a woman and all, (says she as chris just informs me that we were averaging 110 mph the other day down to stoneleigh, dont you ever look at your speedo woman??????, "er" no ) but I do use it nearly every day, it doesn,t sit around in garage for weeks on end.

The other great thing about this car is every day you get in it, you still get that feeling that you get the first day you had it (the car I mean !!!!!), its like having a new car every day

My advise to you is get rid of that old mans car, and get your self a real toy and go play and enjoy!!!!!!!!!!

"oh" yeh and by the way make sure its a red one cos the go faster

Edited November 18, 2005 by lisalotus

[Mark Blanchard]

If you want a fast, reliable car, do what every pea brain does and get a ubiquitous Porsche 911. Very dull IMO.

However, if you want a car that

[esprit350]

just why do you want an Esprit? trying to talk yourself out of it? we have 2 esprit in our family 4 pot and a v8 and in our time owning no major problems, only things have been a faulty sensor and a wastegate on the v8. Oh and a self inficted bumper bash but that was my fault not the cars.

go on buy one and surprise yourself

Howard

[Iain_B]

Some of you guys take things way to seriously, just in case you missed it, it was all tongue in cheek.

I've been on car forums since the email days last century, Supra, Jaguar and now lurking aroudn aLotus one. All you ever see is problems, ( except for the Supra - that was alway about modifcations, anyone had prolbems, the general repsosne was take it to a dealer if you don't know whats wrong) like you said, know one ever tells you when their car is running fine.

If you believe the Jaguar XJ-S forums, their wiring is hopeless - (Lucas - the Prince of Darkenss), they catch fire every second week, overheat in the middle of an artic winter, drop valves seats that destroy the engineis you get it slightly past the middle of the temperature guage, all the yellow fans shatter and destory the bonnet and the radiator, the diff seals always leak, rear brakes never work and the brake pistons are siezed, the earlier paint peels of after 10 years, the mechanical advance on the distributor always siezes up, the earlier ECU's always die, all the fuel tanks leak, the list is endless - in fact have a look at the Jaglovers website and download "the Book" - a 600 page list of things that go wrong with the XJ-S. It will make you never even consider buying one. Yet despite that I still bought one ( two infact because my one did catch fire )

Like I said in the end - I still want one, just need to find a either a good one here in Australia where things are a lot different - you can't exactly send it home to Lotus to get it fixed properly ( unless their move to Malaysia), or I want somehng cheap that I can rebuild the way I want to. As long as the perception is there that they are expensive to run, , unreliable etc they become more and more affordable because of that perception.

[s4simon]

Iain, you're in the same predicament that I was in a few years back.

The aim was to own an Esprit in Australia (currently only have 1 out of 2 boxes ticked).

When I was looking to buy I went thru the same thoughts. Lots of problems could arise and if something does go wrong the nearest Lotus dealer is over 1000 kms away. So, I thought the only way around this was to learn as much as possible.. I bought all the Esprit manuals, ALDL lead, I now have contacts with a lot of the parts places + an endless amount of resources with the Esprit forums. So once I get the car back to Oz - if I come across a problem I should be able to diagnose to issue and get the relevant parts shipped over direct and get a local mechanic who specialises in British Sportscars to fit / fix.

Yes there are lots of things that can go wrong, but I now have great confidence that the Esprit will do me proud in my home town.

I was just talking with the old man tonight in Adelaide and they currently have the annual 'Classic Adelaide International Car Rally' on this week. There was over 100 Ferraris parked in the city tonight alone and not one Esprit - How good is that.

I wish you luck in your Esprit Endeavour Iain. If you have any questions just PM me.

[markt]

Why DID I buy an Esprit?

Cos I'm a sadomasachist with strong narcissitic tendancies and really enjoy getting my wallet emptied for jollies On the same theme, when my Esprit is running, it's pure sex and violence...

I think anyone seriously contemplating Esprit ownership SHOULD have their head seen to. Think we should set up a video conference and have a group session. I'll start "Hi, I'm Mark, and I own an Esprit..." You know the rest...

Know all the stuff in your 1st post was a bit of fun - few seem to taking it a bit too seriously... Lighten up out there, we are a rather unique clan, and it IS Friday after all Says he who's just come back from the pub...

[Jonathan]

Hmmmm tounge in cheek mebbe, the worst Esprit related post ever ? - Definatly.

I hope no-one reads it and thinks this is a remotely fair representation of the car, most of your comments are complete opposite of reality, I know people who really drive these cars hard and they last up very well.

I've had most of my car apart by now and not only is it an absolute doddle to work on the engineering and build quality are actually very good, especially considering that it comes from a hand built small volume producer - infact you missed off one of the true problems of the car which is corrosion !

Love the way it's only Lotus's that suffer mechanical failure - of course other manufacturers never have things go wrong (unless you live in the real world). Sorry just gripes me when I see the car painted in this light (as I am sure it gripes the poeple who built them), it's no where near as bad as people who don't own them make out.

[Iain_B]

- infact you missed off one of the true problems of the car which is corrosion !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was told they don't rust, galvanised chassis and fibreglass body - guess they were wrong - I'll add it to the list

Porsche smorche, who wants a souped up beetle Wait till you see what I found out about Porsche 928's - they make the Esprit look like as reliable as a Toyota in comparison.

It's Friday, and over here in Australia we call this "taking the P8ss" - so lighten up, some of you guys are so touchy that you would think what I wrote is true.

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

Yeah... We ALL have said pretty much any and all of these things ourselves and constantly take the piss out of Esprit build quality and reliability etc....

Being serious for a moment... All in - there IS an element of truth to what Iain said and I suspect that's why it rang a little bit too true. lol

Yes this is a list of the problems but it is also just that - a charicature

The Stevens one I would say was wrong was the one about Accidents and having the chassis bent etc... No no.... It's WAAAY more frustrating than that!

It's more like "You have a minor accident with very little damage of substance and all you have done is prang some of the tupperware... The Chassis and mechanics are all 99% undamaged and STILL the insurance company want to write off your irreplacable pride and joy!"

...as its sale value has plummeted so low as to not reflect it's automotive value so repairs end up costing too large a percentage of the car

(this applies to both G & S-Cars btw!)

You need to add the fuel tank leak thing to the Stevens cars and the windscreen fragility to the Giugiaros! lol (and add to it the irreplacable nature of the chrome windscreen surround!)

As for S3's (ie NA cars) being slow.... Sorry dude, that's not even a correct steretype! They are proper quick cars and the S3's and Turbo's are pretty much the same performance as the pre-SE Stephens car

Oh ...and of course they ALL, without exception, HANDLE like an Esprit!!! (well... apart from the ones with the knackered suspension!) LOL

[x6gas]

I took this as tongue in cheek...

I think part of the problem is that there are some dogs out there that seem to do the rounds - and anyway, people come in and obviously want to pay rock bottom money and end up with with what they pay for...

I have to say, actually speaking to owners there are remarkably few problems. The first few I saw when I was looking the owners said that had owned the car ages and not had a single problem. I thought "yeah, right" coz I'd fallen for the preception that they do spend half their time in the repair shop.

Actually, prices for parts are reasonable if you can find an alternative supplier, most parts are still available and the car is actually quite easy to work on.

The only major headache is rotten fuel tanks - it is dead common (both tanks on my S4 have been replaced) and I just don't know why they didn't make 'em out of aluminium or sommat stainless...

Ian

[karluk29]

i will say,,,,yeah yeah the toyota supra is cool and reliable, misses veilside beast is wicked

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

I forgot to make another point...

It has been metnioned in the past how most other supercars just don't get driven...

You will find LOADS fo Esprits withh 70, 80, 90k + miles on them. This is VERY rare on things like Fezzers or Lambos. So things will go wrong simply because they are USED UP!!!

I was looking at Nobles on Autotrader yesterday and NOT ONE of them was over 10,000 miles!

I wonder how they stand up to high mileage / regular useage?

Why buy these things and never drive them?! Bonkers!

[Iain_B]

I know a guy with an Aston Martin Vanquish - in the 3 year he had driven it only 5000km, has a Porsche RS something which he drives only 10,000km then buys a new one, along with an M3, a E55 AMG, a Porsche 4x4, a Lexus 470 and a few other car parked out back. He uses the Aston for "special occasions"

Supercar owner generally:

a) Don't have time to drive it,

B) Too old to get in and out of it.

c) Can afford quite a few cars so spread the milage over 5 or 6 different ones.

d) Only want it to impress the neighbours, an prefer the comfort of their BM or Merc.

The used Esprit's ares more affordable, so can be used as a daily driver, but I don't think it is those cars that are unreliable - it is the "Garage Ornament's" that only get taken out once a month that are the unreliable ones.

My own experiece with my XJ-S which get's driven at least 1000km a week, whilst a friend uses his only for car club rallies - mine has never let me down, is 23 years old and has 200,000+ km on it, his is 14 years old has less than 60,000km, yet something breaks thing almost every trip out. I would much prefer to wear out parts than have them die from old age.

As the saying goes, "Why die perfectly healthy, fall into the grave having enjoyed every last bit you possibly can out your body".

[Mark Blanchard]

You will find LOADS fo Esprits withh 70, 80, 90k + miles on them. This is VERY rare on things like Fezzers or Lambos. So things will go wrong simply because they are USED UP!!!

The other side of the argument is, by the time they got to 70,80 or 90k, they

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

Grrrrr

Yes it's very true and there was a positive article on owning Classic Supercars a few months back which pointed out that cars used by their owners were generally more reliable than the day the left the factory as (we) had sorted out all the inherent flaws / problems / design faults and had improved them

Hence why I said a well sorted car as far back as an S3 could do you as well as anything....

Bibs drove his NA X180 like he stole it on a daily basis for well over 100k miles!

[Toua]

There was over 100 Ferraris parked in the city tonight alone and not one Esprit - How good is that.

Wow I would have been like, hell yeah... proud of it! You could keep up with those Ferraris anyday.

[Jonathan]

It has been metnioned in the past how most other supercars just don't get driven...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Too true - everything is a relative issue, if you look how Esprits are kept in general to the likes of lambos, ferraris etc it's not suprising they have the odd 1 or 2 things go wrong with them.

Sorry to sound pissy - I just upset when people have a go about this fantastic car and un-fairly portrait it in a bad light which it really, really does not deserve.

Interestingly enough the amount of 'new' cars I've heard of at work that need to go in and have a small fortune spent on them to get them to start when the 'computer says no' plays up - compare that to the Esprit and the supercar comes out quite favorable.

[WayneB]

I knew straight away old Iain was having a laugh with us

Note to Iain you can only critisise our cars when you own one yourself

As for all the other exotics, they all have there idiosyncracys, and alot of the problems they suffer from are down to standing for long periods of time in between drives and being driven by inept owners

Was at a Porsche Club test day once, oh the humanity!

Every gearchange missed or crunched

Grand Finale of the day was some berk rolling his new Carrera 4

[Guest Chelsea Martyn]

4.  Gearbox breaks if you try drive the car fast ( strange you would think for a supercar) - you can fix it, but that costs about 1/4 what the car is worth.  You can upgrade it so it wont break, but that cost 1/2 of what the car is worth.

V8's - ( not much to say on this one - they are not on the my "affordable list" yet)

1.  The liners leak and you need to rebuild the engine but it only costs 1/4 of what the car is worht so that's a bargain.. 

2.  The gearbox also breaks,  strange how its the same gearbox from the 4 cylinder that also used to break yet the V8 has lots more power an torque..

3.  It can't do 200mph because the gearbox will break and  the pistons will melt.

Despite all this, I still want one -     

Hello Mr Tongue in Cheek!

On any of the Esprits the gearbox normally fails due to fast gear changes, not driving fast.. unless you are throwing far more BHP into it then yes, upgrade it.

The V8 box is the same only in looks... it was strengthened to handle the 350bhp

The liners can fail... I'm Mr Paranoid on that one BUT, this was on V8's built using a Loctite sealant for the liners. Any engines after June 2000 were all built using Hylomar and since I've not heard any have failed. Easy way is looking on the Log Book (Vehicle Reg. Document) at the engine number; if it says 9909 in the number, that indicates Sept 99. Any engines that have 00 followed by 07, (July 2000) are safe as I don't know when in June the change happened.

My car is a 2000 V8 but the engine was a 99 build, so mine could fail, But there seems to be a connection with a loctite failure, once the engine overheated. So don't let the car overheat!

As for 200mph.... see Johan!! his does over 200mph all day long!

[Paul C]

Is it me, or can i smell burning...

[mr50bmg]

My own experiece with my XJ-S which get's driven at least 1000km a week...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's a lot of driving. I'd love to have a V-12 Jag.

-Dave