Do Lotus have a "shite" design dept ?

[snuffy]

I've just taken the binnicle off my 350 as some of the lights had shaken themselves loose. All you do is undo two bolts with an allen key and pull and off it pops. Takes about 1 minute.

But, just you try and get the bolts back in again. They go into nuts with captive fixings on which move about so as soon as you refit the binnicle they move and you can't get the bolts to mate up with the nuts. So, it took 30 minutes of fiddling to get the things done up again.

Now I don't think it's possible to design something that wank without making considerable effort. So, my question is :

Do Lotus actually have a design department dedicated to coming up with such appauling designs ?

[Iain_B]

I think that designer probably used to work for Jaguar before he joined Lotus- we got even worse problems - we don't have the captive nuts on most things - worst is the seat, unless you know that you have to put a folded piece of paper under the seat nuts when unscrewing them, they fall off and drop into cross member - to rattle forever, and working on the engine, Imagine having to remove the cruise control, A/C compressor. thottle pedastal, and the distributor cap and leads just to change the spark plugs.

[esprit350]

loose lights !! is that a result of V max then?

[Jonathan]

I've had a lot of the car to bits here and there mainly to get rid of the rusting nuts and bolts, some of the things like the front lights in the bumper are a design nightmare but some of the other parts I have dealt with such as the suspension (front / rear) and the mechanics inside the rear 1/2 of the engine / gearbox are actually very well put together and a doddle to work on.

It seems the things most people would work on themselves can be a complete pain in the ass though. I'm sure they had different teams to work on different parts - if thats so the chassis, bodywork and engine bods did very well imo.

[WayneB]

Someone talking about me

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

Awww, poor Pete.... :lol:

[molemot]

I'm convinced that if you started with a bare chassis and built the whole thing up in the factory sequence from new bits, it probably goes together well. However! No regard was evere given to people having to do things afterwards, especially long afterwards when all the fasteners have rusted etc.etc.

A crew chief on the B58 Hustler - the first supersonic bomber - once told me that he was posted to the factory whilst "his" B58 was being built, on the basis that it was designed to perform with no regard for maintenance, and seeing it being built would help him know what bits were where and how he might get at them later.

He said he still goes to visit it in the desert where it still awaits the call! Lotus design philosophy is probably cloned from that.

[Toua]

Imagine having to remove the cruise control, A/C compressor. thottle pedastal, and the distributor cap and leads  just to change the spark plugs. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know how this feels like. my mitsubishi 3000gt (GTO) I had to remove the stupid airintake manifold just to change the sparks! so stupid for a job that should take less then 5 mins!

[hovgaard]

Have you tried removing the front bumper on an Esprit? You have to break the lower part of your arm to get that extra joint it takes to get at the nuts in the front compartment. Took me almost six months to heal from that.

Edited November 24, 2005 by hovgaard

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

ON another aside, I had to change the battery on my Metro last night and to get at the battery securing bolt entailed removing the airbox

So it's not just Lotus!

[WayneB]

Patience is a virtue

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

Jet fighters are a virtue?!?! :lol:

[WayneB]

When you work on a Jet plane or a automobile it is

[fflyingdog]

When you work on a Jet plane or a automobile it is

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ditto on that mate ! Frieght Dog

[slade]

I'm convinced that if you started with a bare chassis and built the whole thing up in the factory sequence from new bits, it probably goes together well. However! No regard was evere given to people having to do things afterwards, especially long afterwards when all the fasteners have rusted etc.etc.

A crew chief on the B58 Hustler - the first supersonic bomber - once told me that he was posted to the factory whilst "his" B58 was being built, on the basis that it was designed to perform with no regard for maintenance, and seeing it being built would help him know what bits were where and how he might get at them later.

He said he still goes to visit it in the desert  where it still awaits the call! Lotus design  philosophy is probably cloned from that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My dad built the instrument panel for the B58 Hustlers when he was 20, right after high school as a machinist

5 years later, my dad was an Air Force officer. A General was talking to him about a "very secret new supersonic bomber that no one knew about".

Since my dad knew just about everything about it from the instrument panel (including its nuclear capabilities, top speed/altitude etc.) he proceeded to go off about the plane and everything about it

He apparently got to fly in the thing he'd built part of a few years earlier. Hopefully they didn't catch any mistakes.

slade

[slade]

found pic

[Guest teigan]

everyone knows what i think of lotus workmanship. design left to chance will steer itself bad. the team at lotus has no attention to detail, and put very little thought into the parts of the car we deal with most often. all esprits came from the factory: unfinished, as is. that should have been stated upfront.

[MKE40]

Patience is a virtue

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

YOU SOLD ME WAYNE,

where do I get one?

Mike

[slade]

they had reliability problems, as I recall

slade

[MKE40]

I'm convinced that if you started with a bare chassis and built the whole thing up in the factory sequence from new bits, it probably goes together well. However! No regard was evere given to people having to do things afterwards, especially long afterwards when all the fasteners have rusted etc.etc.

A crew chief on the B58 Hustler - the first supersonic bomber - once told me that he was posted to the factory whilst "his" B58 was being built, on the basis that it was designed to perform with no regard for maintenance, and seeing it being built would help him know what bits were where and how he might get at them later.

He said he still goes to visit it in the desert  where it still awaits the call! Lotus design  philosophy is probably cloned from that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

GUYS, GUYS !!!

The sales showrooms could never survive on sales alone , these companies HAVE to supply the after sales and chargeable service ( which SHOULD be too complicated for amateur owners to work on) thereby providing employment for the staff.

These companies dont exist for our benefit as owners , they exist to make money for the directors and shareholders. the people who put up the money to create the whole shebang. Why not call Uncle Colin , IF you can get through , I know just what his answer would be !!!

Be thankful that there existed a human that gave a toss about creating affordable performance cars in the first place , or we would not be having this discussion .

BLEAT not , about the serviceability of thy Lotus, show us all how to do it and create your own easy serviced and affordable sportscar ......................IF its any good ,...........we might all buy one.

Seems an iffy project to me !

Mike

[Guest teigan]

you're speculating that some planning went into purposely locating screws and bolts in places of limited access. if that were the task given to me as a lotus employee, i could have made it far less accessible without buying the special tool. the existing inaccessability issues appear to be completely random.

the word "engineer" derives from the same root as "ingenious". there's nothing ingenious about letting things happen at random.

[MKE40]

Design and planning departments cost money to run Teigan . How much extra money were you prepared to pay for your new Lotus??

Mike

[WayneB]

That Convair Hustler is a good looking plane

Hard to believe its 50yrs old

That Lotus Esprit is a good looking car

Hard to believe its 30yrs old

They were both designed and built by human beings in the trial and error pre-CAD era B)

[Guest teigan]

Design and planning departments cost money to run Teigan . How much extra money were you prepared to pay for your new Lotus??

Mike

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i would have paid a dozen grand more, to prevent spending the same money in maintainence later.

i could have done better than lotus, given the same resources. the priorities just needed shifting. no money need have been wasted on groovy graphics, or looks-only turbo ducktails.

[MKE40]

HOW, much did you pay for your car Teigan ?

Mike