Are our Esprits that good?

[mancunian]

Dont get me wrong I love the Esprit and thats why I bought one but watching the lap times on top gear I dont think it performs that well agianst some middleweight cars:

Esprit laptime 1.32 (although I fancy GT3 may have done it faster than a V8)

Elise was 1.34 wet (when the Elise had low bhp and not 190 it has now)

Exige 1.25

Caymann 1.26

911 1.25 ?

new Audi S4 1.26 ish

I am doing these from memory but it appears that middleweight cars ie not full blown supercars are giving the Esprit a pasting around that track whereas the real heavyweights Enzo , Zonda etc still hold their own and beat these cars.

[Hairyarse]

I dont own an Esprit (yet!) so can't really comment too much. Given the legendary and epic handling of the Esprit is it something like brakes that let it down or are these normally spot on too?

[oneshot]

I think you have to take the Top Gear figures with a pinch of salt. It's not exactly a scientific study. They are done under different conditions with different drivers (the current stig, I believe, is a variety of people).

[Blue4Ice]

Also there are other factors not just is it wet or dry. Things like humidity, air temp etc which can greatly affect lap times. Plus as said above differences in drivers

[jason S4s]

I also think the previous stig wasn't great as the new one(s) seem to be faster in everything.

And perhaps most importantly if you watch the episode where they drove the Esprit, they did say about how much the stig hated Lotus' and didn't want to drive one, that has to be a big factor in how hard he tries!!!

I would like to see one of the new stigs redo the esprit lap I bet it would be much faster.

Jason S4s

Also there are other factors not just is it wet or dry. Things like humidity, air temp etc which can greatly affect lap times. Plus as said above differences in drivers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Edited November 24, 2005 by jason S4s

[Daniel]

Well on the track days I've done, I've not been passed by anything I wouldnt expect to be quicker.......

Even my mate in his S2 exige was gob smacked how quick my S4 is around Oulton........

Besides as long as it's fun it's nice to blast around and people say "that goes well for an old car"

[mancunian]

Yes I have heard good reports from GT3 drivers saying that even Exiges were outperformed around a track but I cant see the top gear lap time beind reduced by 6 seconds by a change in conditions or driver.

I am a huge Esprit fan but I dont like to think a Caymann is a much better performer!

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

I agree with Jason...

They often have had shows where he has been around pretty quick and they have made a point of his (whichever HE it is) enthusiasm for the car and his desire to stay out there because he "can do it faster"

In the Esprit Episode they made a really big deal about how he hated Lotusses and stamped up and down a bit etc so I suspect he went out, bashed out a couple of crap laps 'cos he had to and left it at that

While I totally accept that it is essentially a 20+ year old supercar I don't believe for one second that it is actually slower some of the crap that is ahead of it on that time board

[B33 ENN]

Dont get me wrong I love the Esprit and thats why I bought one but watching the lap times on top gear I dont think it performs that well agianst some middleweight cars...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I also watch Top Gear and am never impressed by their Esprit time and wonder the same thing.

My opinion is that firstly, they tested a V8, which is never going to be quick as a 4 pot around a technical track, it has a poorer weight distribution, maybe on a track with high speed straights it may show up better, else I don't think so.

Secondly, the Esprit without an LSD is going to throw most of its power away rather than put it down.

Third, I also don't rate the Esprits normal braking performance. I don't believe Lotus did much development here to make the car stop as well as it goes. There is never enough weight on the front wheels and it is heavily front biased. The rear wheels are not used to help enough with slowing the car.

I think if a well developed GT3 or S4s were to do this test with a competent driver, then it would show much better.

However, you have to remember, that most other cars they test have computer assisted traction control systems, and that will always give them an advantage.

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

They nearly always make a point of saying they turn the traction control off on most cars (except the ones where it is a hugely necessary part of the handling / *genuinely* helps the car like the Evo's etc) ...the others it's there to protect the drivers from themselves!!

I have to confess tho that I have often thought this myself

Performance-wise we get pasted by Evo's and Scoobs... Elises give us a hard time on twisties...

[Blue4Ice]

Even if we do get beaten by some of the middle of the road cars, at least we drive around looking good rather than in a four door family saloon!

[mancunian]

I guess the Le Mans circuit would actualy show us in a much better light against these cars (forget the reliability issues which we did suffer when we tried!)

[B33 ENN]

They nearly always make a point of saying they turn the traction control off on most cars...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The problem is many modern cars with traction control systems never actually fully allow you to turn them off. They may have a switch saying "off", but it usually doesn't mean you have total raw control. The computer is still there underneath interpreting your wishes.

[Jonathan]

Yeah I'm not loving the V8 Esprit time around that track either.

Not sure of the comparisons but the TG track was designed by Lotus to test the cars in all aspects of the circuit (ie twisties, full power curves, tight corners and so on) so it's an average of the car's attributes.

The other fact as mentioned is the Esprit was driven by another Stig and it was in the minging cold / wet. Cold stops tyres warming up significantly - also depends on the tyre selection.

I also wasn't that impressed with the S2 Elise time, the Exige is fantastic but 10secs quicker ?

Perhaps we should recomend a re-match ?

[neal]

We did have good rant about this before:

http://www.glcforum.com/ukesprit/forums/in...?showtopic=1033

[Loose Cannon]

Things move on, if the factory stops developing the car you have to face the fact it'll be left behind. Porsche faced the same thing in the late 80s when the the 911 waded into battle with 250BHP. By the beginning of the next decade Performance Car were comparing it with the then-new breed of quick coupes (Calibra Turbo, Rover, Corrado VR6 etc) commenting how they were catching up rapidly.

Theres so much more to these cars than figures for me, I couldn't personally give a crap when a loon in a Honda Civic type R keeps up. If he didn't want a closer look he wouldn't be following! B)

[WayneB]

Of course the modern stuff is leaving the Esprit behind, I would be suprised if it wasnt.

There seems to be two distinct factions on the forum, the people who accept the car for what it is, a basically 30 yr. old design that was a sensation in its time and covet it as a timeless classic (like me)

And the people who have the newer Stevens cars, hot rodding them to keep up with the Supercar Joneses (looks like fun)

Interesting hobby we have here innit?

[mancunian]

I think a 350 bhp car still being manufactured in 2003 sosting

[Rob]

Richard - you have to remember that the esprit comes from a time when 'trackdays' were pretty rare and as such not many fast cars were developed with track work in mind. The reverse is true these days where every manufacturer spends endsless laps at the norsdscheife making sure their car works well on a track, as the expectation is that most owners will track their cars (more cameras etc means this is almost obligatory if you really want to experience the cars performance).

In terms of absolute performance, the esprit is still pretty damn quick. E.g. gallardo, 330bhp/tonne 500ish bhp cracks 0-100 in about 10 seconds, 500bhp new m5 is about the same, thats about the same as an esprit v8...

[Mark Blanchard]

In it’s time the Esprit was one of the best. It could accelerate faster than most Ferrari’s. Look at the times for the 308GTB or

348. Here are some old performance figures for similar Supercars:

Lamborghini Countach LP400 0–60 6.9 seconds

Ferrari 512BB 0–60 7.2 Seconds

Ferrari 308GTB 0-60 6.5 seconds

Lotus Turbo Esprit 0 – 60 5.3 Seconds

Who cares about new cars, the Esprit is a Classic Supercar .

Edited November 24, 2005 by Mark Blanchard

[mancunian]

Ok you have cheered me up a bit guys!

It does make me smile when I see A gallardo hitting 100 in over 10 secs when I reckon the Esprit can beat it!

[hovgaard]

I ll [...] not bother watching top gear track times again!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wise words.

[Blue4Ice]

Personally I think that all 4 pot esprits competed with the competition very well for performance and on price. Sadly when lotus released the V8 they didn't step the car up another level like that it deserved at the time. By the time of the first V8s cars such as Scoobs and Evos were readily available and your family saloon could compete on performance while the supercars were streets ahead. However for the money, it still gave very good performance and aesthetics are second to none

[Bibs]

Ok you have cheered me up a bit guys!

It does make me smile when I see A gallardo hitting 100 in over 10 secs when I reckon the Esprit can beat it! 

[fmxa]

I don't think the Esprit is all about track times, it's more the Lotus experience. I occasionally get the "My friends Evo, Wrx, (insert rice boy car of choice)" is faster than your Esprit. To which I reply "Thats nice, but what would you rather drive for a day, my Lotus or your friends Subaru?" Sort of puts it in perspective for them.

Agreed, all mentioned are "nice" cars, but mass produced vs (for example) the ~330 S4s' in the world. For me, its not only performance, it's the history, engineering, design, and all the people who put the soul into the Esprit.