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garytvr

head light problem

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I have a single motor S1 and I am trying to get the motor to work . There are two wires going into the motor. The first is a red one that has a yellow wire attached to it. That yellow wire goes off to one of the relays . The second wire is blue and is cut off. I don"t where it should go.

I have tested the motor out of the car and it works fine. Reversing the polarity reverses the motor.

The schematic is not clear about where this blue wire goes. Any ideas?

Gary

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Looks like we're in the same situation. Mine (single motor S1) was supposed to be a broken gear in the motor's drive, having replaced that and tested the motor (it works) there is no power to the motor now that it's installed. The restoration shop is scratching his head and the transporter company is breathing down his neck so it looks like I get to inherit the problem after the journey home.

I'll be digging into this in a about 7-8 days myself. Any hints, regular known faults with relays, microswitches etc would be helpful suggestions.

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I feel for you Robert.

My problems:

The anti foul switch wire to ground was broken so the relays would never activate.

The red wire coming off the motor goes to +12 when the motor runs.

The blue wire goes to ground since the motor only runs in one direction.

I can only find one of the diodes. It looks like there should be three.

Now the motor runs but never stops.

Check all three micro switches

Check the relays I believe there are two . Make sure the relays have 87a and 87 contacts. One of the relays I had had two 87 contacts.

Make sure the purple wire is always positive.

I have taken the motor out of the car to make things easier.

When you turn the lights on you should hear the relays click.

The dip switch should also cause the relays to click.

There could be problems with the dip switch

Check continuity of the wires going to the micro switches and the motor.

I am going to try and find the other two diodes and check those, if i can find them.

I think i am going to build a mock-up of the system on a piece of plywood so I can have a better idea

whats going on.

There is also a five way connection near the LEFt headlight make sure all those are connected.

I have obtained a TR7 motor. The motor is the same except the micro switches are inside the motor .

Cheers

Gary

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This sounds like good info Gary, I'll be referring to it very soon I should think.

Maybe just a nice hand drawn schematic instead? :-) Mockup sounds awfully serious.

BTW, I had heard that about the TR7 motor but also heard they were getting a bit hard to find as well.

Keep in touch.

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Hello,

If using the TR7 motor, it's quite easy, you can operate the lights by means of one single relay (with 87 and 87A outputs). You don't require any other equipment and the dodgy system with diodes is no longer required.

Did the upgrade on my 84 Turbo Esprit, as the wiring loom was a gigantic mess...

Regards, Ruud-Peter

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But in your case on the '84 you did a two motor modification right? Could this work with just one from a TR7 on our S1's?

Edited by Rodewaryer

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Hello,

As long as the mechanics work the same it should be no problem. On my Turbo, the headlight motor does not reverse polarity, I don't know if this is the same on the S1.

I assume however, if the motor is identical to the TR7 motor in mine, it will not be a problem.

Regards, Ruud-Peter

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Transport arrived saturday night with my S1 Esprit on it, :-) so I will be working on it after my workweek is over on wednesday. Working the headlights and replacing rotten smelling petrol will be first priorities. I don't even want to think about how many other things need to be done. If there's 50 things I need to do, 35 are probably in the interior.

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I started on the lights before the sun came up. My first day on the Esprit. I just scarfed a piece of pizza and the sun is setting and there were no breaks in between short of a quick trip to a nearby scrap yard to unsuccessfully locate a lamp mounting unit (the assy the lamp mounts into). Needless to say the unit the Esprit uses isn't common with anything colonial. Oh well, I hoped.... Oh! and one other thing, I would like to know what the B>##*y H#@@ the back of the pod is supposed to be made of. I'm not saying anymore about that particular 'issue' until someone who knows can confirm for me. I don't know if I should be disappointed with Lotus, the previous (pratt) owner or both.

So, just about everything that can be wrong, is wrong. The good news is when I raised the pods manually (propping them up), then turned on the dip beams, they work. I walked around the car and all the exterior lights work. I was told the reverse lamps don't work from unloading the car from the transporter. Then I tried the mains, all the headlights go dark. Very nice. :-( At any rate I don't have any 'other' electrical news yet as I let myself get distracted by the pods and all the issues I found up there. One of the top motor mounting bolts was missing, thus when I raised the pods to remedy that there went the next 10 hours or so and I'm still not done there yet. I found one single (previously cut and loosely twisted back together by hand) wire going to the bonnett micro switch. That's clearly a problem. There are 2-3 disconnected wires in the nose adjacent to the motor, and only a couple actually hooked up. I found a disconnected ground amoungst the main bundle adjacent to the relays and after the hours on the pods can't recall if there were any others loose there. When I get the pods sorted, I'll get back to the mechanical connection of the motor as it looks incorrect as well. A flat piece of bar stock, about 6 inches long is connected low, (to the bottom joint of the long bolt with the spring) and yet the other end of the bar is laying disconnected and pointed back toward the screen. The workshop manual has a diagram of how it's supposed to be connected (the exploded view) and it's not exactly crystal clear.....more fun and games tomorrow after I get some sleep.....what a mess!

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I think the S1 switches between the main and dipped lamps, i.e. when you go to main beam the dipped pair of lights go out and the other pair come for the main beam.

Can you get a parts list from LEW to give an idea of the layout as it has plenty of exploded views?

By the way, my S2 had TR7 motors but also had diodes to prevent back feeds from one side of the switch to the other.

Don't you jsut love previous owners' attempts at maintenance and repair?

Good luck

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No takers on the question about the material the back of the light pod is supposed to be made of? When they are up, it's more or less the bottom of the pod, when down it's more or less the back of it. I found about two dust pans full of leaves and 'stuff' in the pod wells, including a long phillips screwdriver and one spider, now deceased. :-) The inside of one of the headlamp buckets (or bowl) had rings from different water levels in it. Since the headlamps have been down, than meant the water was being retained literally by the headlamp and the air was in the bowl near the wiring gromment. Ludicrous. It's in Arizona now and not only is it dry, but it's garaged. That won't be happening again.

Pretty sure the outers (dipped beams) don't go 'out' on main/high beam, they just switch to main/high, that's why there's power there from both dip/low and main/high circuits. At least any 4 headlight system I've ever seen the outer lamps switch to a diff filament (in fact any I ever owned had H4 bulbs in them) as the inner mains come on. Saabs and Sunbeams aren't Lotus' but they sure aren't domestic either so I would think they'd be similar in operation. I wonder if a ground disconnection would cause them to go off when switched.....it's that or the switch is bad since pulling back to the spring loaded flash position works correctly. Anyway, time to get back to the garage!

Sorry Trevor, didn't mean to ignore you. I'll take a look and see what else I can find. I wouldn't mind a pic of a properly assembled and working motor with it's linkage etc. That could help too.

Previous owners are usually bad, I mean don't most people use and then discard their cars for a reason? Not all of course, some move on and up etc and some are forced to sell at times but generally I think people are ridding themselves of problems when they sell their cars.....

I think I know the category my S1 fits into.

Edited by Rodewaryer

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Just posting some pics of the work so far. The 13 hour (or so) day wore me out so day two was finish up the pods and detail the car. The junk sylvania lamps are gone and my Cibie CSR's are installed. BTW,

s1swlmespritgaragehurfy.jpg

The left pod was the most work when it came to rust. The dip beam on this pod needs a new lamp housing assy. I made it work to get by with but the rust was monumental and all 4 outer rings need to be replaced as well. Two of them are rusted 'through'. I found some rings and entire assemblies on ebay that are out of a Triumph stag and look to be the same ones. Can anyone here verify that?

s1swlmespritgaragelpodq.jpg

The black lamp surround on the right pod was in pieces and the majority of the bit that goes between the lamps was missing altogether. I had to fabricate a piece to make it whole again. It needs replacing but this works for the moment.

s1swlmespritgaragerpodd.jpg

It was broken into 'many' pieces, at all the points indicated. Kinda ugly actually.

s1swlmespritgaragerpodb.jpg

Edited by Rodewaryer

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Hi Robert,

I think the headlight pods use plywood - probably marine grade. Mine are starting to delaminate. This plywood can be purchased at Aircraft Spruce and Specialty Company.

Out of total frustation i removed the headlight motors, wiring, micro switches and relays to test on the work bench. As i started to hook things up i noticed the PU wire coming out from position 4. Why is that? Then it occured to me that when the headlight switch is turned on PU is turned off . When the headlight switch is turned off PU turns on. That's what turns the headlight to the down position by activating the P wire on the Headlight Motor Relay. I used a DTDP switch to test this out and everything worked great.

I looked at the headlight motor switch on the car and, sure enough, i think someone installed a heater switch. When you turn the headlights off PU turns off, never activating the Headlight Motor Relay which would turn on the P wire closing the headlight pod.

The fix: always make PU on by connecting it to the the P wire.

Next problem: the UW wire from the five way connector must always be on when the headlights are on. If not, the headlight will continue to rotate. Connect this wire to the low beam UR wire.

Next problem: everything works great on the bench - installing it in the car may be a different story.

Dislaimer:This is all to the best of my knowledge - which isn't much.

Gary

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Good info again Gary, the more the merrier. It all adds up and will be of benefit.

Plywood. Uh huh. Very tacky, sorry. Mine were so bad (mostly missing) they no longer had enough to use the rubber bump stops. I should have thought more glass fibre (with a pad for the bump stop) would have made a perfectly acceptable 'back panel'. The thought of wood in there just rubs me the wrong way, especially with it all rotten.....I don't see any glassfibre rotting anywhere on the car...

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Hi Bob

Nothing wrong with a good grade of aircraft plywood. Strong light, bonds easily to fiberglass with epoxy. Airplanes are bilt out of it (Mosquito). The firewall is wood, you better check it also.

Gary

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