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inexcusable engineering


Guest teigan

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just spent my whole day off completeing what should have been a half hour job. for some time, i've been bothered that the headlight pods didn't line flush with the bonnet, so i wanted to raise/lower as needed to fit everything up better. well it turns out the turnbuckle system used to adjust the height of the pods had the threads on the middle shaft going in the same direction, making it impossible to make adjustments in place. the entire assembly has to be unbolted before any length change can be made. so i had to continually bolt and unbolt each time to check/finetune the height. as i told the bolts, "this is nuts". why can't lotus get it right the first time, and more importantly, why don't they fix it once the mistake is discovered. anyplace i've worked, the person in charge would be sacked for such an oversight. i hope the mistake did not continue into later cars.

forgot to mention, the usual clearance issues applied. the fasteners were turned 2-3 degrees at a time. can be very tedious and infuriating work when done repeatedly.

Edited by teigan
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because left hand threads are expensive! No really they are.

I updated my rear upper links to be adjustable like the '91 X180-R and 94+ Esprits. I had to buy the bolts from Lotus (left and right handed threaded studs with a hex in the middle). then I had to buy the left and right handed nuts. Then I had to buy some stainless steel rod and taps... One Left and one right hand M16 taps.

The left handed nuts were 2x the cost of right hand nuts.

The right hand tap was $20 and the left hand tap was $57.

Lotus didn't even bother to make the suspension on the pre 93 cars adjustable for camber. Why, maybe they thought their suspension settings were perfect, and maybe they wanted to save some money. Either way it was a pain for me to make my own, but far cheaper than buying the adjustable ones from Lotus.

Travis

Vulcan Grey 89SE

 

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I just don't get you teigan.

If owning one of these cars is such a bind to you, why don't you just get something else and give us all a break.

Just about every post from you is deriding Lotus or others on this forum.

Ever thought that if the headlight rods can't be adjusted in place then they won't shake or move themselves out of alignment during use, and your suggestion would need some sort of locking mechanism to ensure that the lights stay in position. At least this way once adjusted they should stay that way......................

Jez

Mean Green S4s

I think therefore I am - Descartes

I'm pink therefore I'm spam - Eric Idle

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I've honestly never, ever cared about the fact that my headlight pods dip 5mm further down than they ought to towards the front. If I cared, I'd be driving a very different car.

slade

"It's called a fire hydrant. Firemen like to stick their hose in it, and eventually squirt water from it."

Owner of 86 TE HCI, and 55 Chevy. Stare at broken down TR7

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hmmm

I adjusted mine flush recently

and as much as I inwardly cringe

about the way different cars

have been diabolically designed

to challenge maintenance,

I had no complaints about that

particullar system.

and it took about 10 min to do

both pods :P

Edited by ragingfool35

chris

90SE

just because I don't CARE doesn't mean I don't UNDERDSTAND

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just spent my whole day off completeing what should have been a half hour job.  for some time, i've been bothered that the headlight pods didn't line flush with the bonnet, so i wanted to raise/lower as needed to fit everything up better.  well it turns out the turnbuckle system used to adjust the height of the pods had the threads on the middle shaft going in the same direction, making it impossible to make adjustments in place.  the entire assembly has to be unbolted before any length change can be made.  so i had to continually bolt and unbolt each time to check/finetune the height.  as i told the bolts, "this is nuts".  why can't lotus get it right the first time, and more importantly, why don't they fix it once the mistake is discovered.  anyplace i've worked, the person in charge would be sacked for such an oversight.  i hope the mistake did not continue into later cars.

forgot to mention, the usual clearance issues applied.  the fasteners were turned 2-3 degrees at a time.  can be very tedious and infuriating work when done repeatedly.

Seriously teigan, why bother? You know you love it, so why constantly knock it? You are like a man who can't admit he loves large women. It's not right cause his mates take the piss, but you can't help but love it. You're constantly seeking approval for loving it!

Just relax and every time you feel angry at it, close your eyes and run your fingertips over it's lines, it's smooth, the laquer feels cool and you know instinctively that it's right!

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

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hmmm

I adjusted mine flush recently

and as much as I inwardly cringe

about the way different cars

have been diabolically designed

to challenge maintenance,

I had no complaints about that

particullar system.

and it took about 10 min to do

both pods :P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so i take it yours had the threads correct. thus negating the theory that the correct way would cause the pods to shake out of position. or do you have different clearance on your model which allows a speed rachet?

Seriously teigan, why bother? You know you love it, so why constantly knock it? You are like a man who can't admit he loves large women. It's not right cause his mates take the piss, but you can't help but love it. You're constantly seeking approval for loving it!

Just relax and every time you feel angry at it, close your eyes and run your fingertips over it's lines, it's smooth, the laquer feels cool and you know instinctively that it's right!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i call a spade a spade.

i welcome all sizes of women, but if they ask me if their outfit makes their ass look big, i'm gonna be honest.

i have taken most of the car apart, which wouldn't have been necessary on most cars the same shape and size. frequently serviced items should be located on the outside layer. there is plenty of empty space used inefficiently on the esprits.

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so i take it yours had the threads correct.  thus negating the theory that the correct way would cause the pods to shake out of position.  or do you have different clearance on your model which allows a speed rachet?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

post-144-1133587440.jpg

remove this nylock nut, pull eye off stud, adjust, put eye on stud, check,

repeat until satisfied

you don't have to adjust the other end

is yours different?

yes, plenty of room for a rachet and socket or racheting wrench

chris

90SE

just because I don't CARE doesn't mean I don't UNDERDSTAND

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remove this nylock nut, pull eye off stud, adjust, put eye on stud, check,

repeat until satisfied

you don't have to adjust the other end

is yours different?

yes, plenty of room for a rachet and socket or racheting wrench

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah. you need to physically disconnect one end to affect length, as the threads on the turnnbuckle go the same way.

i read the manual and it states all i need to do is loosen two nuts, then twist the center shaft to adjust. it's a basic turnbuckle used since the 17th century. however, the writers were assuming the guy doing the sourcing would have bought a shaft with opposing thread directions.

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Where I live, I bought new trick LH and RH rod ends and made new rods for peanuts..

If you dont like the way the car is engineered.. fix it.. thats what is fun about these cars.

We cant complain, we all knew what we were getting into.. buy a Honda if you want a car to just wash and drive.

J

If you set no goals you shall surely reach them..

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Where I live, I bought new trick LH and RH rod ends and made new rods for peanuts..

If you dont like the way the car is engineered.. fix it.. thats what is fun about these cars.

We cant complain, we all knew what we were getting into.. buy a Honda if you want a car to just wash and drive.

J

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i've already started that process. ordered the stock earlier when i first realised the service manual instructions didn't jibe with the product. if it had been done right once, then the job needn't have been done many times over for the same result. i don't mind improving the car in ways worthy of my skill sets. threading rodstock is not time well spent for you or me. a machine can do it enmass faster and more precisely. all lotus had to do was purchase it correctly.

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Guest Troy Halliday

It does seem Teigan that someone has replaced your particuler rods at a later date with redilly available parts. The rods should have a LH and RH thread on oposing ends. Don't forget your car is geting on in years and has been played with and maintained by various individuals.

Take my car for example it is going to confuse the hell out of someone in another 20 years if they don't keep the revised parts manual that I will keep with the car. I have changed fans, brakes, suspension, engine, clocks, fuse board, fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel tanks, radiator (now three core) side repeaters, lights and a hole hoste of other minor parts.

The rods that you are refering to now I have also changed because they were so rusted that I could not do anything with them. So I had new units made out of stainless steel to prevent the same thing happening in the future.

I am also working on a revised gear linkage and have redesigned the air inlet system to a proper ram air system with a newly manufactured air box to replace the ugly original unit.

See what I'm getting at not all problems are from the factory but over enthusiastic individuals like our selfs. :P

Just enjoy it man you know you love, think of it like a marrige it's not all plain sailing and if the gods had invented us humans properly we had had come with a mute button so our partners could switch us of. The gods didn't get it all right so it's to much to expect poor old lotus to get it right all the time.

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can't say for sure, but maybe there was a misordered part shipment, and lotus decided to use up the parts anyway. one of the reasons i purchased the car i did, was it had complete service records and parts receipts from owner one on. there was no record of the headlight pods being reworked or repaired. and yes the parts were quite equally corroded. i own a few cars made the same year by different manufacturers and the lotus really has aged badly in comparison, and with far less mileage. i do take your point that life isn't perfect, but machines can be. after hours of tweaking, my front bonnet lid is now centered/shimmed correctly and doesn't scrape rudely upon drop closure. it lines up precisely with both headlight pods of equal height. i still want to rig the lid to slowly close itself on a hidden gas strut. but before i can make any creative improvements, i have to rehang the passenger side door, which is scraping the sill. may never need to do that on my other vehicles, which retailed for about the same as the esprit in 1984.

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The pop ups on the later cars are adjusted by the winder on the motor - it's dead easy to however you cannot lock it off and it always falls back after a while - hey ho.

Its the nature of the beast I'm affraid, pretty much all of the bits Lotus got from other suppliers had to be adapted. Taking into account 90% of new customers wouldn't even have opened the fron hatch Lotus wouldn't have spent a lot of time, effort and money fixing these niggles - correct if I am wrong but in the mid 80's Lotus weren't exactly in the best finacial position esp. after the Delorean incident.

A lot of these cars were also put together in the idea of never taking them apart again, hence the nuts / bolts with built in rust accelerator.

Having said that I have worked on plenty of new cars with more than enough problems (Mercs, Audis, Fords etc) some designs are great for maintenance but others are down right shocking - mainly because everything is controlled by a sodding computer and runs on data bus lines to operate things, simply so you have to take it back to the dealer at

facebook = jon.himself@hotmail.co.uk

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Teigan..I'm kinda sick of your complaining also. Half the fun of Lotus ownership is working on them. Go buy a Honda.

Dave

90SE

Where I live, I bought new trick LH and RH rod ends and made new rods for peanuts..

If you dont like the way the car is engineered.. fix it.. thats what is fun about these cars.

We cant complain, we all knew what we were getting into.. buy a Honda if you want a car to just wash and drive.

J

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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if something is wrong with the workmanship on the car, don't you benefit when someone else is willing to take the time and tell you the details? is that not why you would even spend time reading a post that is clearly titled as a "complaint"? if you don't like complaints, think first before you also complain.

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It's not the fact that you take the time to tell us the details and how you, as such a fantastic engineer that know exactly how everything should have been done, it's the manner in which you do it.

9 times out of 10 there's a perfectly vaild reason why something is done the way it is. You can have your opinion and probably come up with a better way to do something, but again that may not suit the time, cost and other constraints placed on the people that originally designed and built these cars.

We can all come up with better ideas, but have any of us produced a car that promotes such emotion as to create a gathering of people that want to spend the time admiring each others vehicles or aspiring to owning one........

NO !

So Teigan, until you can produce something that we all want to drive, have a little respect for the people that did..........................

Jez

Mean Green S4s

I think therefore I am - Descartes

I'm pink therefore I'm spam - Eric Idle

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actually i have worked on many vehicles people drive, and the systems i was responsible for have never garnered any complaints. this include military and space vehicles, where complaints are the least of the user's problems. and even if i hadn't this experience, i'd be perfectly justified to comment on a shaft twisting the incorrect direction.

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actually i have worked on many vehicles people drive, and the systems i was responsible for have never garnered any complaints.  this include military and space vehicles, where complaints are the least of the user's problems.  and even if i hadn't this experience, i'd be perfectly justified to comment on a shaft twisting the incorrect direction.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hey Teigan

i've worked on design of some military vehicles and aircraft

as an aerospace engineer. got out of that industry as its so

volitile. what is it that you do?

chris

chris

90SE

just because I don't CARE doesn't mean I don't UNDERDSTAND

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current gig is reading abstracts for an upcoming aerospace conference. will be shut up in a stuffy room all day sunday. they'd better have decent catering. but technically i am retired. i should be working at walmart as a greeter.

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Lotus didn't even bother to make the suspension on the pre 93 cars adjustable for camber.  Why, maybe they thought their suspension settings were perfect, and maybe they wanted to save some money.  Either way it was a pain for me to make my own, but far cheaper than buying the adjustable ones from Lotus.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Colin Chapman was quoted as saying he didn't want people fiddling with the way the cars were set up.

He thought they would do mostly more harm than good.

He was probably right. :P

Paul.

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Teigan..I'm kinda sick of your complaining also. Half the  fun of Lotus ownership is working on them. Go buy a Honda.

Dave

90SE

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dave, Dont tell him to buy a Honda ... tell him to buy a TVR .... he will love his Esprit to death after a short while wrenching on the TVR :P

Marcus

Marcus

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... tell him to buy a TVR .... he will love his Esprit to death after a short while wrenching on the TVR :P

Marcus

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can second that ... share a 1994 Griffith 500 with my brother - much prefer working on my Excel!

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current gig is reading abstracts for an upcoming aerospace conference.  will be shut up in a stuffy room all day sunday.  they'd better have decent catering.  but technically i am retired.  i should be working at walmart as a greeter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

retired at 34? you're kidding!

what's your degree?

chris

90SE

just because I don't CARE doesn't mean I don't UNDERDSTAND

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